[Will Hunt]

Fear not, Wired Guides (2020) will put this historic injustice right.

[Kingy]

Fear not, Wired Guides (2020) will put this historic injustice right.

Good good, bout time! 

[Ru]

Didn't mutterings about upgrading SoT and LA start when Ben repeated Super Plafond and the Bronx (both 8c+) in France and said that they were both about the same grade as SOT/LA?

[Kingy]

Yes that's right if memory serves. It was in a 1995 edition of OTE which I think has already been scanned onto a thread somewhere if memory serves. In it, Jibe Tribout counters Ben's argument of UK 8c's/c+'s being nails by suggesting that Hubble would have already had 8 repeats already if it was transported to Orgon! 

I think history has proved Ben right to a large extent with Hubble being upgraded (see comments in the latest 8a.nu piece)

[Doylo]

Didn't mutterings about upgrading SoT and LA start when Ben repeated Super Plafond and the Bronx (both 8c+) in France and said that they were both about the same grade as SOT/LA?

Sandbags even back then. Nic Sellars thought LA was brick hard 8c even in the old money (didn’t do and pissed  Evolution). 

[haydn jones]

How does "all out" break down since the hold break in the 90's?
Is it still sport 7c into font 7C, or is the boulder problem harder now?

[Kingy]

How does "all out" break down since the hold break in the 90's?
Is it still sport 7c into font 7C, or is the boulder problem harder now?

Yes that's right. Its 7c to one bolt after the belay of 50 for 5 then there is a Font 7C boulder. I understand that there used to be a big undercut out right that made the crux a fair bit easier (I don't know by how much) - all you have now is 2 miserable crimps. (I have looked at the rock out right of the crux and there appears to be an ancient scar where some rock has plated off decades ago.)

I asked Rich Waterton who did this in 2000 and he said that the departed undercut was ancient and was not there when he did 2 laps on it in a session! I have 2 slides of Ian Vickers trying it the same year and he is doing the crux the way it is done today off the crimps (there is no undercut). So it seems like the 8b+ grade was only applicable for a few years after the FA and it has been a lot harder ever since (sans undercut). Apparently the crux is harder than anything on Northern Lights!

[SA Chris]

i thin i watched 2 competitors in the speed in male and female before zoning out.

[tomtom]

i thin i watched 2 competitors in the speed in male and female before zoning out.

So much so it’s interfered with which thread you’ve posted in!!

[SA Chris]

Godz...

[haydn jones]

Would be interesting to see what people think of Victor Hugo. I've had 2 sessions on it now and that feels like a 7C boulder after a 7c+ yet get 8b. I must admit if I had done it unknowing of the grade I'd be pondering whether it's 8b+ or 8c, not 8b!

[Kingy]

Would be interesting to see what people think of Victor Hugo. I've had 2 sessions on it now and that feels like a 7C boulder after a 7c+ yet get 8b. I must admit if I had done it unknowing of the grade I'd be pondering whether it's 8b+ or 8c, not 8b!

I've been on it and it seems v burly and a major sandbag at 8b. I don't know the exact grade of the boulder but it seems pretty desparate! I know its been done recently by Rich and others but nobody has actively come forward to suggest an upgrade to 8b+. One of the problems of the UKC database is that there is only one grade available to log so there is no option to put your own grade, hence the massive time lag with routes being regraded (as with All Out). Whilst there is a voting system in place it seems like practically speaking this is not that effective in getting the number changed. IMO it would be better to simply have the option to log the grade you think a climb is straight away. Anyway, this is 

[Kingy]

Couldn't resist sharing this nugget I have been informed about on the back of this thread. Apparently, Malc, after ripping off the crux undercut on All Out, did the 2nd ascent in a single session. 

Have great bank holiday weekends folks!

[tim palmer]

I remember someone telling me he ripped the hold off, immediately figured out the alternate sequence and did it next go. 
But there are lots of stories about malc in his pomp.