[spidermonkey09]

I did set out to write that down and see how it felt in context, and also make a commentary on the goal / training / progress led culture which is quite overwhelming.

The thing is Dan, that we all know how you feel about goals/training/progress led culture, and you adding snide posts to the the thread adds absolutely nothing of value as far as I can see. I and I'm sure many others find power club a really useful resource for keeping me motivated, as well as being really interesting/inspiring in terms of seeing what other people are up to. Whats in it for you? And perhaps a more pertinent question to consider, what does it add to the conversation?

[JCorbot]

It depends on the conversation your having. A misguided and subversive / divisive way of questioning meaning to me and others, which has pissed a few people off. Sorry again Spider, not trying to spoil anyone’s fun.

[36chambers]

I did set out to write that down and see how it felt in context, and also make a commentary on the goal / training / progress led culture which is quite overwhelming. So in a sense I was highlighting that in a weird way and can see how people doing that felt mocked. I tried to explain and apologise for that more negative lashing out at what for me was quite misery inducing. Again nothing related to any of you guys.

Well kudos for trying something different.

I don't suppose you've seen much of the goal / training / progress led culture on youtube? it's certainly something else

[JCorbot]

Cheers 36Chambers that video looks beyond what I could ever have expected. You can understand my hesitation to pass further comment

[JCorbot]

and also just to add to what will said, I was operating (to some degree) under the assumption that subverting the norm was considered ‘OK’ in ukb? Maybe I’m stuck in a time warp still yearning for the days of Houdini and Jasper

[andy_e]

Counterculture is welcome, but this is all so pretentious, self-referential and dull (and inaccessible to those not on instagram and/or taking an active interest in "the scene") that it becomes self-subversive and tedious. It was a joke funny at first that became laboured out of amusement and into annoying.

[JCorbot]

Haha just deserts are a dish hard to swallow. Fair play.

[andy_e]

...that's just my opinion though, and if you like doing it then just carry on. It is important to have people poking fun at rampant commercialisation and the marginalisation of the soul climber. I'm just not interested in reading about it...

[Doylo]

Genius video 

[JCorbot]

So..... having dutifully eaten the shit sandwich. Just curious but has anyone taken anything worthwhile from all this? I know it’s self referential and self subversive but without digging into others or making assumptions (which I definitely don’t want to do) I had to get the material from somewhere.

[JCorbot]

Genius video 

Thanks man

[Alex-the-Alex]

Nah boulderings a big wide church and Dan's one of the only ones balancing out the Power Club choir. Keep on. Maybe we need a Exploration Club for weekly exploration of the self and wider intro/outrospaction?

[abarro81]

and also just to add to what will said, I was operating (to some degree) under the assumption that subverting the norm was considered ‘OK’ in ukb? Maybe I’m stuck in a time warp still yearning for the days of Houdini and Jasper

As andy said, I think "subverting the norm" is good if it's funny or thought provoking. I just don't think you did it very well. Sorry.

[joel182]

So..... having dutifully eaten the shit sandwich. Just curious but has anyone taken anything worthwhile from all this? I know it’s self referential and self subversive but without digging into others or making assumptions (which I definitely don’t want to do) I had to get the material from somewhere.

From my perspective, you seem to have used this account for a series of odd and insincere posts. You made posts about racialized language that seem to trivialise important issues, bogus entries on power club so you can feel smug about people 'trying too hard' or something, and don't seem to have actually subverted any important norms.

[Plattsy]

Dan

Nah boulderings a big wide church and Dan's one of the only ones balancing out the Power Club choir. Keep on. Maybe we need a Exploration Club for weekly exploration of the self and wider intro/outrospaction?

I +1 tHiS.

[Yossarian]

There's a piece in today's Guardian about how Patrick Marber came up with the idea for Closer...

"I wanted a sort of Shakespearean scene, with someone in disguise, so spent an hour in a cyber cafe and went into a lesbian chatroom pretending to be a gay woman. "

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2019/jul/09/how-we-made-closer-patrick-marber-clive-owen

IIRC, Closer involves a character called Dan who pretends to be a girl called Anna, has cybersex with a guy called Larry, sets Larry up on a fake date with Anna, who then turns up unexpectedly.  Larry ends up marrying her before cheating with Dan's girlfriend Alice. It's all rather convoluted, but it does provide a salutary lesson on what happens when people called Dan pretend to be other people on the internet.

[Oldmanmatt]

Where?

Who said that?

[JCorbot]

Ah sigh, 😢. While I can see some people are keen the general vibe is saying don’t bring it hear. Thanks for all input while some of it has been a bit hard to swallow.

Just one last question for Barrows, if I were to ever become ‘funny’ how might I train to get there and do I need any rubber leg wear?

[JamieG]

This thread reminds me of two separate Steve Albini comments on his Reddit IAmA.

On why he doesn't like jazz.

'Because it sucks and I'm tired of hearing about it. Believe me I've tried. I just hate the parts I hate about it more than I like the little things there are to like. The batting average is just so low I can't bear the dead time between highlights being filled with all that noodling. It's vain music.'

But also

'The most destructive thing a musician can do is start worrying about whether or not other people will like the music. Fuck other people. They're not in the band. Just make music that stimulates you and don't second-guess yourself.'

 

[36chambers]

Just one last question for Barrows, if I were to ever become ‘funny’ how might I train to get there and do I need any rubber leg wear?

All I can say about this is that if Will Hunt thinks it's funny, it probably isn't that funny.

[JCorbot]

That’s a good point Jamie, thanks. And Joel, that really wasn’t my intent so really sorry if you got that vibe. 36 it’s strangely comforting to know that I might share a sense of humour with Will, just goes to show friends are found in the most unlikely of places.

[Oldmanmatt]

So..... having dutifully eaten the shit sandwich. Just curious but has anyone taken anything worthwhile from all this? I know it’s self referential and self subversive but without digging into others or making assumptions (which I definitely don’t want to do) I had to get the material from somewhere.

I dunno.

I’d call myself an artist (lowercase a) and I draw, paint, write etc. Always have. Sometimes pretty straightforward, sometimes esoteric. Way more of the stuff that comes out of my head, gets screwed up and binned (literally and metaphorically) than makes it’s way into the lives of others

I pretty much stopped sharing my writing, because it really did wander off into la la land and since I’d made no attempt at anonymity, was catching up with me in negative ways.

I’m saying, I like weird shite.

But (and I said this earlier, elsewhere), Dan, it’s hit and miss. I can understand why some see it as mocking, to mildly insulting. I pointed that out to you elsewhere too.

I’m baffled by your motivation. On the one hand, you claim to seek to examine/ask others to examine, the “Goal oriented” culture of climbing; something you appear to disapprove of, to the point of mockery, and yet you provide no alternate definition of an activity which is nothing more than it’s goal (getting to the top of x,y,z) and serves no purpose beyond the individual and their goal.
You appear to harbour some desire to “liberate” people (possibly, just yourself) from this bondage of self imposed Sysyphean labour?
Do you not think it exists, in many cases, as salve to life’s vagaries and vicissitudes, a creation of order and self determination within the Entropy?

In fact, an activity, not fundamentally different from your art?

Some of it’s quite good though.

I think you might achieve a better connection, if you could engage your internal editor (‘ain’t I a fine one to talk?) or ask someone else to do it for you.

[AMorris]

  I have no idea what is really going on, which is something I have come to embrace on here, but speaking as someone on the outside all this feels less like a shrewd criticism at some carefully picked aspects of the current ukb climate and more like a cynical in-joke amongst  a group of friends. The russians have a term for this kind of cynicism, 'styob'.

This is just my ten pence though, I have no strong feelings about this one way or the other. Ten pence has very little real world value any more.

Although I would note that I wadded you a while back cos I though you were a first time poster to PC, and given this place is not exactly short of corrosive cynicism as it is, I feel like new members need a little more nurturing and encouragement than elsewhere. I am left feeling a little foolish, but again, that is something I am used to!

[Will Hunt]

Just one last question for Barrows, if I were to ever become ‘funny’ how might I train to get there and do I need any rubber leg wear?

All I can say about this is that if Will Hunt thinks it's funny, it probably isn't that funny.

I laughed at this, you unfunny bastard 

[JCorbot]

Hi Matt, I think the answers are pretty similar to the original post.

1. Act out of comfort zone and express ideas and feelings  that I’d otherwise keep to myself.

2. Actively try to encourage questioning of some things particularly a culture which places high value on ‘measurable progress’

3. Explore some of my own confused ideas about this culture and why it’s begun to feel so vacuous to me.

As it went on I have already admitted to making a few errors and lashing out at the culture in general, but that was part of my original plan which was to be free to express and see what happened. Of course this became representative of a very weird headspace that is me (for better or worse) and as various posters pushed back, questioned my sanity, etc etc I undoubtedly took it too far.
I have apologised for that lots of times, if anyone is still not hearing that erm, 😐 I’m sorry again.

On the flip side I posted this that has been quite exposing and open to say the least. Taking a snapshot of the criticism - pretentious, boring, no good, minimising important issues, insulting, unfunny, self serving etc etc like I said above I get the general vibe.

You’re right though it could have been communicated in a more helpful way, I tried doing that at the beginning. Strangely it’s not really an in joke between friends. The only people I communicate with about this have come about through this. E.g Doylo, Will, Fatneck, Falling Down, Fiend and a couple of others. Non of which I knew before hand