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Zippy / Ben Moon trivia challenge! (Read 3273 times)

haydn jones

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In fairness It depends how you break it down.

I always thought of it as 7B to the undercuts, then 7C+ to the jug, then 7A+ to the top. But between the 7B and 7C+ there's not really a rest so is logical to think of it as a single 8A boulder.

I guess it's going back to the point earlier In the thread that says what counts as a boulder.

Stu Littlefair

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Are you talking about MIF Haydn? Itís definitely not 8A, youíre just too tall.

Go try seraphim...  :o

shark

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Remus - you going to compile the list on this ?  :yes:

Remember folks what would Ben and Zips think?

Ru

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In fairness It depends how you break it down.

I always thought of it as 7B to the undercuts, then 7C+ to the jug, then 7A+ to the top. But between the 7B and 7C+ there's not really a rest so is logical to think of it as a single 8A boulder.

I guess it's going back to the point earlier In the thread that says what counts as a boulder.

I think that's right, overall there must be the equivalent of at least 8As worth of climbing or it wouldn't be 8c, but it depends how you define the boulder bit. I agree with your breakdown. We always thought the section undercuts to jug was 7C+.

I thought Seraphim was about 7C+ into 7B+/C with a clipping hold in between, which would be 8A/+ as a whole thing, but it's 18 moves from floor to jug. Broken down like that 8b+ seems a bit mean, but there you go. I was a bit scared of giving out grades above 8b/+ when I did it because Evolution was given 8c.

T_B

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PUTPBand is 18 moves and breaks down as 7B into 7C+. Or 8A+/F8c.

SA Chris

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Would any of the short steep hard things at Dumbuck have 8A sections?

DAVETHOMAS90

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Don't think Make it Funky is 8a. Or Jehovahkill. They might be in modern grades I suppose. We've all done easier ones in Switzerland. Seraphim might be 8a in retrospect.

I'm calling bull on this not being a font 8A. I spent 8 days on this and never managed to even stick the ear let alone get to the jug, this was in the period when I was doing font 8A in a session and did keen roof and fat lip in 3 sessions.

Definitely 8A boulder and only about 10 moves to the jug from the group which makes it not even that long of a boulder.

Braver than me to just call it as it is Haydn!

Re Jehovakill, that's what was relayed to me, and compared to other things I've tried, doesn't seem very far out.

It's a really interesting discussion overall though - how the various longer sequences stack up.

There's a different way to explore this - I know it wasn't necessarily the intention behind the thread - but you could ask "What routes do you need to be bouldering 8A for, before you try them?".

Is there a barrier to entry/engagement? Is this an argument between Ben and Zipps - Zippy/5c Mark trying to claim that everything can be broken down to sequential 5c?

Ru

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Re Jehovakill, that's what was relayed to me, and compared to other things I've tried, doesn't seem very far out.


I've done Jehovahkill - 8A isn't that far out. Depends again on which sections you are counting. The whole thing is at least 8A, the crux few moves a bit easier. I thought there were two blocs the lower crux being about 7C+, but this was 16 years ago. I feel old.

nai

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Obviously I don't know what I'm talking about but as it's not been mentioned what about Northern Lights, or is that a stamina plod?

DAVETHOMAS90

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Re Jehovakill, that's what was relayed to me, and compared to other things I've tried, doesn't seem very far out.


I've done Jehovahkill - 8A isn't that far out. Depends again on which sections you are counting. The whole thing is at least 8A, the crux few moves a bit easier. I thought there were two blocs the lower crux being about 7C+, but this was 16 years ago. I feel old.

Hi Ru.

That sounds reasonable, although the route is very short (6 moves?) and I'd have thought worth treating as one boulder?

.. and anyway, I gave Jerry a rope on it, and all of a sudden, the lower bloc didn't seem to exist at all.

That was thirty years ago!!

Thoughts about Hubble? I've heard 7C+ after the move into the two finger undercut.

I find it difficult to apply boulder grades to routes - similar to the problem of applying sport lime grades to grit routes. Adding a rope and harness can make a huge difference to how much you anticipate success.

remus

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Remus - you going to compile the list on this ?  :yes:

Ask and ye shall receive https://github.com/bourbonspecial/BritishBoulderRoutes/blob/master/bbr.md

24 routes (including a couple of question marks).
« Last Edit: June 13, 2019, 08:09:19 pm by remus »

Nike Air

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Hmmm I had 22 on my list.
Don't know much about the Scottish ones though...?

shark

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Nice one Remus

Been in touch with Zippy. Think UKB did well.  :clap2:

They didnít get the one at Pigeonís or the Diamond.

He reckons Make it Funky or Mega Whore not both and probably not 8A anyway

Suggested Bristolís Got Talent and Three Spheres as well. Also maybe Meltdown and the Very Big and the Very Small.

Honorary mention for Steveís new Nesscliffe route


teestub

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Honorary mention for Steveís new Nesscliffe route

The trad routes with 8A climbing list would be interesting, I guess a lot of them would be things in the County which are more usually approached as big boulder problems? Likewise for Samson, Superstition, etc. in the peak.

Fiend

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From what I recall Meltdown is a 7C+ crux. With a bit more hard climbing after ;).

Great call Teestub - it should be restricted to actual trad above gear rather than highballs. That wild prow at Back Bowden is mean to be 8B, above bomber gear.

carlisle slapper

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Purgatory is easier than Transcendence. Font 7Cish. I think the only font 8 in the county which has been lead is Grim Creeper and i untied on the slab so it wasn't fully lead. I had a quick look into it after doing Transcendence and there was no real contenders for true roped trad 8's in england/wales but i didn't look too hard north of the border. The rack is considered 8A nowadays and features right at the end of a tricky traverse, but like everything a rope wasn't involved and we all know climbing magically changes once one is involved. i'd guess there are around 800 font 8 boulders in the UK if the EUKBI list got updated, we should bolt a few to help the cause.

The crux of Hunger and Blood Diamond seemed fair at 8A when i had a look after the hold broke, i've not been back since 2013 though

<off topic>
are there many 9's in the uk which don't have any glue holding holds on/ or changing their nature or "selective cleaning"?

Fiend

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My mistake, Purgatory was originally given 8A+....

Edit: Also if there aren't any Font 8A upwards trad routes, you need to pull your finger out :P. Surely now you're a dad hard moves above bomber gear are more sensible than 10m spine-twisting highballs...
« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 12:55:31 pm by Fiend »

DAVETHOMAS90

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it should be restricted to actual trad above gear rather than highballs.

I find this interesting.

Consider Careless at Stanage, which, as I understand it, wasn't climbed as a "highball" (highbail?  ;) ). ie no pads involved on the FA. I appreciate it does break down to 7C? after the start, but sounds fair to call it 8A for the full tick.

Hooligan gets it's 8A+ for the start, and whilst the rope is needed to complete the route, the roped climbing isn't the barrier - the significance here being that, although Careless is claimed as a highball now - with loads of pads - it wasn't originally, and in my view is more of a contender than Hooligan.

Therefore, I'd say, if climbed as a route then it counts - whether there is a rope at a critical point or not.

If the crux/8A part constitutes a headpoint by virtue of the way it's climbed, then I'd say it absolutely does count - because you've got to be solid on the 8A climbing. That's in the same way that climbing with a rope at 8A requires a higher level of operation to make significant progress.

As an aside, Hooligan start is one of those problems where pulling on with a pad is significantly easier than without.. which I've tried often  ;)

teestub

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I wonder if Rob would have used pads for Careless if they existed at the time? Jumping from higher and higher off NTBTA to test your landing seems similar to a highballing mindset.

georgenorth

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I had a quick look into it after doing Transcendence and there was no real contenders for true roped trad 8's in england/wales but i didn't look too hard north of the border.
Any idea about Welcome to the Cruel World? Looks pretty bouldery...

DAVETHOMAS90

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I wonder if Rob would have used pads for Careless if they existed at the time? Jumping from higher and higher off NTBTA to test your landing seems similar to a highballing mindset.

The significance isn't the mindset as much as whether you can try moves on a low percentage basis.

Trying low percentage moves in extremis - whether on a rope, or in any other situation where pulling on/falling is a major pain in the bum - is what I think makes the difference, rather than necessarily what constitutes a highball or not.

I was using Careless as an example, although Ron used a different sequence/method on the start IIRC. (Easier for him?)

remus

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https://github.com/bourbonspecial/BritishBoulderRoutes/blob/master/bbr.md

Added in Bristols got talent as I know the hard section is short and bouldery and the lack of ascents suggests it is pretty tricky. Happy to take it off if anyone's tried it and has some knowledge?

Anyone want to confirm Three Spheres? Seems like it'd be pretty sandbagged at 8b if it does have an 8A boulder!

I've left off Meltdown and TVBATVS, unless anyone wants to make an argument for them to be on the list?

Nigel

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I've left off Meltdown and TVBATVS, unless anyone wants to make an argument for them to be on the list?

Been on both - you're right to leave them both off.