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IFSC 2019 (Read 71687 times)

Fiend

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#100 Re: IFSC 2019
June 11, 2019, 09:09:43 pm
No I just despise speed "climbing" as being something so utterly tangential to the process of interesting, varied, technical and challenging climbing and as a passionate climber / climbing fan / IFSC fan I resent it's intrusion into an otherwise excellent and enthralling series of climbing competitions. It has forced it's way into being part of the Olympic format, but it will never be part in my mind. The direness was proven last year with the combined format test where Ondra's masterclass on the lead route got overriden by Jakob's speed result. I am an Ondra fanboy yes but that's irrelevant in this case, I was thrilled to see Tomoa's win and that moment got an instant rewind. Speed is dire and always will be.

Thanks for the answer, that's interesting as usual, I can see how it would be a grey area and understand the definition of "something going on".

If you're around could you answer my previous Q:

Quote
an on M1 with the bleeding knee. If he had not taped his knee, tried again, but not used the kneebar so there was no danger of bleeding on the hold, would he be allowed to continue?? Surely there is a grey area as to where bleeding injuries can be and not require taping (I dunno like a grazed ear or something)??

(thanks - I really like all the details and subtleties of the contest).


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#101 Re: IFSC 2019
June 12, 2019, 08:08:10 am
Fiend - I know we talked about this at Blackstone the other week - but have you listened to Grimers podcast with the photographer who follows the IFSC tour? He had some really interesting insights into the different components of the olympic comp - about the differences between the athletes in the different divisions and other stuff...

Fiend

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#102 Re: IFSC 2019
June 12, 2019, 08:50:50 am
Edit: shit sorry it was Yoshi. I got confused with the manga haircuts. I was also lying awake in the middle of the night trying to remember the problem he won on and it took me aaaaages (1-2 dyno into gastons then hideous press into downwards sidepull)

TT - nope, sorry I really don't do podcasts, maybe I will tho. I'm sure some people like the stuff but then again some people like Justin Bieber or having sex with goats. I'd rather have a deadhanging format as at least it would be very vaguely relevant.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 09:13:03 am by Fiend »

tomtom

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#103 Re: IFSC 2019
June 12, 2019, 09:25:23 am
TT - nope, sorry I really don't do podcasts, maybe I will tho. I'm sure some people like the stuff but then again some people like Justin Bieber or having sex with goats. I'd rather have a deadhanging format as at least it would be very vaguely relevant.

Fair enough. I listen to Grimers on long car journeys...

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#104 Re: IFSC 2019
June 12, 2019, 01:59:02 pm
Fun comp, great results.

Janja is another level, though dare I say there was a small chink in the armour this round? Possibly a smidge of nerves creeping in to get the clean sweep.

Enjoyed all the problems, and cool to see most (all?) got topped via different methods.

Regular grumble about split format leading to lots of skipping.

I got the impression CB was saying getting a top automatically gives you the bonus, even if not used?
Do you have to use the bonus with the hand, or is foot acceptable?

Interesting on M3 the decoy foothold out left shutting people down. Lip-reading Jan saying "What's that foothold for?!" was great :D

Great season, impressive to see Janja crush, but a smidge of competition would be good! Was it something like 4 problems NOT topped all season? Insane, regardless of how close a final was.

A while back Pooch was keen for a mixed comp, and Janja could certainly hold her own too - would be interesting to see as an exhibition event, Rockstars or Legends Only perhaps.


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#105 Re: IFSC 2019
June 12, 2019, 02:16:00 pm
Fun comp, great results.

Janja is another level, though dare I say there was a small chink in the armour this round? Possibly a smidge of nerves creeping in to get the clean sweep.


I thought this too. Maybe she has changed up her training a bit for the upcoming lead comps and therefore not as solid as usual.

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#106 Re: IFSC 2019
June 12, 2019, 02:49:23 pm
For the olympics, a win in speed, a win in bouldering and tenth place out of twenty in lead (1*1*10 = 10) would make it very difficult for the winner of lead (Ondra) to win overall even if they would come second in bouldering (1*2*5 = 10) as it would require to come forth or better in speed.
Dire  :sick: :shit:.

That seems inconsistent, I am sure that you would have argued that a 1st in Boulder and a 1st in Lead should be enough to win the gold so why is it shit if it flips around so that a 1st in Speed and a 1st in Boulder should be enough to win gold. Or are you an Adam groupie :-)

Not what he said, but there is a real issue with multiplying the results of an athlete vs athlete comp with athlete vs the wall. It's the bonus multiplier effect.

The multiplication system transfers and multiplies the quirks of knockout rounds to the results of the other rounds.

So if one person slips and false starts, their direct competitor gets a bonus multiplier across all three rounds, and everyone else is disproportionately disadvantaged, across all three rounds.

Though I did mention this before, and nobody seemed to care...
https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,28631.msg570842.html#msg570842

GraemeA

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#107 Re: IFSC 2019
June 12, 2019, 04:04:40 pm
I got the impression CB was saying getting a top automatically gives you the bonus, even if not used?
Do you have to use the bonus with the hand, or is foot acceptable?

Yes you get the Zone automatically if you get a Top.
Apart from the above circumstance a Zone is only awarded if it is controlled by the hands. It is always about the hands eg a Top is only for hands or in Lead you only get scored for holds controlled by the hands.

GraemeA

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#108 Re: IFSC 2019
June 12, 2019, 04:08:45 pm

Quote
an on M1 with the bleeding knee. If he had not taped his knee, tried again, but not used the kneebar so there was no danger of bleeding on the hold, would he be allowed to continue?? Surely there is a grey area as to where bleeding injuries can be and not require taping (I dunno like a grazed ear or something)??


He wouldn't have been allowed to start so we would never know whether he could have eliminated the kneebar. Common sense would hopefully prevail with something like a grazed ear.

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#109 Re: IFSC 2019
June 12, 2019, 04:54:13 pm
Cheers G. Looking forward to Lead now  :2thumbsup:

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#110 Re: IFSC 2019
June 12, 2019, 06:17:50 pm
For the olympics, a win in speed, a win in bouldering and tenth place out of twenty in lead (1*1*10 = 10) would make it very difficult for the winner of lead (Ondra) to win overall even if they would come second in bouldering (1*2*5 = 10) as it would require to come forth or better in speed.
Dire  :sick: :shit:.

That seems inconsistent, I am sure that you would have argued that a 1st in Boulder and a 1st in Lead should be enough to win the gold so why is it shit if it flips around so that a 1st in Speed and a 1st in Boulder should be enough to win gold. Or are you an Adam groupie :-)

Not what he said, but there is a real issue with multiplying the results of an athlete vs athlete comp with athlete vs the wall. It's the bonus multiplier effect.

The multiplication system transfers and multiplies the quirks of knockout rounds to the results of the other rounds.

So if one person slips and false starts, their direct competitor gets a bonus multiplier across all three rounds, and everyone else is disproportionately disadvantaged, across all three rounds.

Though I did mention this before, and nobody seemed to care...
https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,28631.msg570842.html#msg570842

This is a great point. I wonder if the rule makers have considered this?

Could easily be solved by making speed in to a time trial thing with a best out of three or something so nobody has false starts.

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#111 Re: IFSC 2019
June 12, 2019, 06:55:37 pm
Speed is the bit that makes the best TV (apparently) so it’s more likely to make the other parts less important imho...

Shame speed can’t be onsight rather than something they’ve practiced 5000 times...

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#112 Re: IFSC 2019
June 12, 2019, 09:48:57 pm
BTW when I said earlier "some people like the stuff" in bewilderment, I was referring to s***d climbing not the podcasts, the appeal of which is actually comprehensible. I listen to gabber on long journeys ofc.

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#113 Re: IFSC 2019
July 04, 2019, 09:32:16 pm
Ondra not competing since he's injured, Shauna the first British woman to go sub-10 seconds, Miho the first boulder world cup winner to make a speed finals.

 :popcorn:

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#114 Re: IFSC 2019
July 07, 2019, 10:29:43 am
Janja dropping her chalk bag at the start and still casually topping the route...

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#115 Re: IFSC 2019
July 07, 2019, 06:34:11 pm
Best part of the comp by far. Worth noting it was approximately 27 Celsius, and no one else topped the route.

Finals were worst I can remember

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#116 Re: IFSC 2019
July 07, 2019, 08:43:40 pm
Totally agree about Janja’s chalk-free effort (couldn’t believe the commentators not only missed it, but didn’t even notice when she repeatedly went to chalk up, did a kind of “d’oh!”, wiped her hands on her shorts and just carried on!).

Both male and female finals were dross. Both routes were way too easy and that stopper move on the females surely should have been flagged in testing?!?

I also fully accept what an incredibly difficult job setting at the very cutting edge must be. It’s just so bizarre when they misjudge both routes in the same round so badly!

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#117 Re: IFSC 2019
July 08, 2019, 12:59:01 pm
I wonder if the first event of a wc season is harder to get right in terms of setting?

Also there seems to be a trend to secure the ranking in semis, and have a more eye-catchy finals route with less worries about ex-aequos... But why bothering with finals then???

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#118 Re: IFSC 2019
July 08, 2019, 02:59:58 pm
Yes the setters are always more worried for the first comp of the season.

The idea of getting the ranking sorted in the semis is not a new one. Firstly it means that you don't have to use time as a determinant and secondly, yes, you can have a more entertaining route.

It's not the first time chalk bags have been dropped, maybe it's a Slovenian thing as Maja Vidmar dropped hers in the final at the World Champs in Aviles in 2007 and still got pretty high.

Although Sachi Amma also did it in Briancon in 2014 in the semi final and nearly topped - this was the year of the cancelled final so he won gold sans chalk bag.

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#119 Re: IFSC 2019
July 08, 2019, 03:08:08 pm
I wonder if the first event of a wc season is harder to get right in terms of setting?

Also there seems to be a trend to secure the ranking in semis, and have a more eye-catchy finals route with less worries about ex-aequos... But why bothering with finals then???

Your second statement answers your first question
 And I agree that the finals are made more for show.
The first two rounds of this comp seemed “better” than the finals if the goal was to see the field separated by lead climbing abilities.
If the goal was to see climbers swing out on easy dyno’s .... the finals were fine.

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#120 Re: IFSC 2019
July 09, 2019, 08:13:34 pm
Replay here:


Fiend

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#121 Re: IFSC 2019
July 10, 2019, 11:34:21 am
Hey Graeme, if you're going to give me -ve Karma for the one time I take the piss out of an unusually relatively boring final, can you please give me +ve Karma for each and every time I rave on about how much I enjoy and love watching the habitually good ones?? (I make that 6 so far this year). It's only fair. Ta!

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#122 Re: IFSC 2019
July 10, 2019, 09:19:34 pm
Little rant from Eddie Fowke in the wake of Villars

Quote from: eddie on insta
The throne in Villars. Virtually no one had time to get comfortable in it, as no matter how well they climbed the routesetters hadnt allowed it.
In the womens event I didnt see a single lady looking pumped or in trouble on the way to the infamous 35+. In the mens event, I believe each and every one of them was capable of topping the route, and only errors split the field.
The thing we have to ask, is what we want to see in a Lead World Cup?
For me, I dont want tops, I want to see the best climbers separating themselves by overcoming the pump and solving the challenges of the route until they cant go on. I want to see the best at their limit! If someone tops it should be exceptional! (Think Adam Ondra in Paris 2016)
What I don't want to see is climbs that are all surface, no feeling. Climbs that are showy but dont test the climbers. Climbs that come back to count back or time...
As a sport I believe we should be watching to celebrate the exceptional, not to see climbers do their less than their utmost, succeeding on the route but not be able to win due to the level.

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#123 Re: IFSC 2019
July 10, 2019, 09:27:47 pm
Little rant from Eddie Fowke in the wake of Villars

Quote from: eddie on insta
The throne in Villars. Virtually no one had time to get comfortable in it, as no matter how well they climbed the routesetters hadnt allowed it.
In the womens event I didnt see a single lady looking pumped or in trouble on the way to the infamous 35+. In the mens event, I believe each and every one of them was capable of topping the route, and only errors split the field.
The thing we have to ask, is what we want to see in a Lead World Cup?
For me, I dont want tops, I want to see the best climbers separating themselves by overcoming the pump and solving the challenges of the route until they cant go on. I want to see the best at their limit! If someone tops it should be exceptional! (Think Adam Ondra in Paris 2016)
What I don't want to see is climbs that are all surface, no feeling. Climbs that are showy but dont test the climbers. Climbs that come back to count back or time...
As a sport I believe we should be watching to celebrate the exceptional, not to see climbers do their less than their utmost, succeeding on the route but not be able to win due to the level.

Spot on.

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#124 Re: IFSC 2019
July 12, 2019, 07:39:45 pm
Hey Graeme, if you're going to give me -ve Karma for the one time I take the piss out of an unusually relatively boring final, can you please give me +ve Karma for each and every time I rave on about how much I enjoy and love watching the habitually good ones?? (I make that 6 so far this year). It's only fair. Ta!

I thought the replay post was funny as well.  Seems like an over reaction :)

 

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