UKBouldering.com

The meaninglessness of grades (8a.no thanks) (Read 16173 times)

Moo

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Is an idiot
  • Posts: 1444
  • Karma: +84/-6
I always thought the intended use of grades was to measure climbs against one another in terms of relative difficulty.

The use of grades by climbers as a personal measure or indeed to measure climbers against one another is something else. This different perception of grades usage could be seen as meaningless, however I wouldn't say it makes grades themselves meaningless.

Doylo

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 6694
  • Karma: +442/-7
‘ The only men with glory are the dead men. Glory kills men.’

user deactivated

  • Guest
I prefer ‘no guts, no glory’ and particularly the expression I had to ‘gird my loins’ before setting off on the runout. Operating below thought not above it, a bit more base and visceral.

JamieG

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1278
  • Karma: +80/-0
I’ve always wondered if failure (or at least the prospect of failure) is more important than success in climbing. Well not abject failure but just enough to instil some doubt. Success brings relief but also always ‘what’s next’. I think you go climbing because of what you can’t do (yet). Not what you can do.

monkoffunk

Offline
  • ****
  • forum abuser
  • Posts: 721
  • Karma: +60/-0
  • sponsored by 90% lindt and vitamin D
Climbing is this ever evolving thing, and although it really is about the goal, and succeeding, and getting to the top; at the same time, it's a never ending cycle of finding something you're really motivated on, obsessing over it, and then once you get to the top, celebrating for a little while and then moving on to the next thing.

user deactivated

  • Guest
The rock gives us nothing and particularly not a grade to strive for. Or maybe more like a mirror what we give the rock and activity, like anything is eventually reflected back at us. The rock doesn’t give us a cuddle when we feel miserable and stressed towards it. It just makes us feel miserable right back. The  joy we feel with success is so transient that we’re immediately thinking of the next bit of rock that will fill the hole, and at the end of it all when our joints, muscles and minds are shrinking and old, even the memories created by that activity will be desperately hung onto as a source of pride in who we once were accompanied by the pain of loss of what we can no longer be. Therefore I’d rather have fun than piss it up the wall in a tedious goal based training program full of performance peaks and troughs

monkoffunk

Offline
  • ****
  • forum abuser
  • Posts: 721
  • Karma: +60/-0
  • sponsored by 90% lindt and vitamin D
I don't really care about the grades. I enjoy climbing (and training actually) and it it is a big part of my life and a big contributor to my overall happiness and life satisfaction. That by itself is probably enough, and I would probably still climb if that was all I got from it.

However, very rarely, maybe not even once a year, I do something that is particularly fantastic and pleasurable but that I also had to work really really hard for and give absolutely everything to achieve. Sometimes when I do that I get this feeling of absolute elation that is unforgettable and might even be worth it even if I didn't enjoy training at all. I know that in itself it might be a transient emotion, but I wouldn't want to never experience it, and I imagine some people might live their whole lives without never knowing what it feels like.

I could have a perfectly pleasant day climbing awesome 6bs, and that would be great, but I doubt I would ever be elated to get up one. That said, the grade hasn't been the determining factor in when I get that emotion or not. First 7B+, which was hard work, but problem wasn't that good, didn't get it. First 7c didn't get it, went too easily in a session and hands were like blocks of burning ice at the top so was too focused on the pain.

First 7b+ though, that was a feeling I'll never forget though. I'd probably find the route pretty straight forward now, but at the time it felt fucking amazing and not because of the grade for sure, but certainly partly because it was hardest thing I'd done and it was so good to flow up it after so many failed attempts.

36chambers

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1678
  • Karma: +154/-4
all right Buzz Killington.

Grades are great because they allow me to gauge my progress. Apart from pissing around on a glorious day, one of my favourite aspects of climbing (and most other activities I partake in) is progression. It's a great feeling when you've realised you've improved at something, particularly if you've put in the extra effort.

The joy I feel with success accumulates over time as I overcome more and more arbitrary challenges that I set myself #zenasfuck

edit: responding to Dan's last post, not monkoffunk's :)

user deactivated

  • Guest
Buzz kilington hahaha

Hey all I’m saying is the rock has nothing to give but what you offer it. If you know how to stockpile ‘joy’ then pm me and I’ll flog it for a million quid. Ask Salt Beef he knows, cos he’s Zen as fuck and of the old school when men were men and drank a six pack of lager and ate a massive vindaloo as preparAtion. Moobs were an essential climbing asscesory

monkoffunk

Offline
  • ****
  • forum abuser
  • Posts: 721
  • Karma: +60/-0
  • sponsored by 90% lindt and vitamin D
I don't know how to stockpile joy, and I'm sure that suffering comes from desire and all that jazz, but I'm still glad I know what it feels like.

Nutty

Offline
  • ***
  • obsessive maniac
  • Posts: 359
  • Karma: +17/-0

Hey all I’m saying is the rock has nothing to give but what you offer it.

But you're arguing against offering focussed, planned training to the rock? Surely it follows that the people following their goal-based training programme are offering more to the rock and therefore getting more from their successes?

user deactivated

  • Guest
Ah it’s a personal perspective shared. I enjoy climbing on a board as much as the next person. And certainly I’m not trying to tell people what to do or indicate there’s a right or wrong approach.

Stu Littlefair

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1836
  • Karma: +283/-2
    • http://www.darkpeakimages.co.uk
Dan - a nugget of personal advice. I think a lot of the pushback you get from folk on here is because "trying to tell people what to do or indicate there’s a right or wrong approach" is exactly how your posts come across...

36chambers

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1678
  • Karma: +154/-4
Ask Salt Beef he knows, cos he’s Zen as fuck and of the old school when men were men and drank a six pack of lager and ate a massive vindaloo as preparAtion. Moobs were an essential climbing asscesory

;D

You'd be disappointed with the incredible physique he's rocking nowadays. He makes Hercules and Cacus look like a pair of school boys.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2019, 11:39:08 am by 36chambers »

saltbeef

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1456
  • Karma: +51/-5
I’m just here for the homo erotic flexfest

user deactivated

  • Guest
Dan - a nugget of personal advice. I think a lot of the pushback you get from folk on here is because "trying to tell people what to do or indicate there’s a right or wrong approach" is exactly how your posts come across...

Cheers Stu. You know I’d probably never be so directly opinionated in person, certainly not without a lot of humour attached. I thought sometimes to stimulate discussion it’s good to take a bit of a stand on something that people might disagree with, and be ok with that. I’m almost sure that the majority reading my posts will shrug it off as spouted nonsense. I try never to say ‘do it like this or that’ if someone hears something which goes against their system then of course they’re going to feel lectured to. It’s a tricky balance to make a strong statement yet appear neutral at the same time. Maybe it’s an unconscious effort to force me to avoid Malham catwalk and the like, in case I have to justify the spoutings haha.

Bonjoy

Offline
  • *****
  • Global Moderator
  • forum hero
  • Leafy gent
  • Posts: 9932
  • Karma: +561/-8


Hey all I’m saying is the rock has nothing to give but what you offer it.

Isn't that one of those grand sounding phrases that could apply in an equally vague way to any activity/interaction?
Anyway what if a hold snaps? What if your really psyched and positive and happy and you stand on a dropped grape and slip off?
I find from doing first ascents that the experience can be great or mediocre as a direct consequence of the rock and it's not always obvious which way it will go from looking at the rock. So within my climbing ability the rock has an experience to offer which is to a large extent independent of my input. Also climbing can completely turn my mood around, so it is changing rather than mirroring.

user deactivated

  • Guest
Hi Jon  :wave: Agh, yes it is a sweeping statement that refers to any activity. Caught in a bit of a bind here. If I back up what I said I’m telling people what to do, if I agree with what you guys are saying fully that would be untrue. Either way I just re-read the original post and all it does is set out to question. No where in it is directive.

abarro81

Online
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 4289
  • Karma: +341/-25
If you think that your posts (including the OP) aren't hugely implicitly "directive" then you must have some amazing drugs

user deactivated

  • Guest
You’re right of course. Not sure how to get around that other than not posting the questions / ideas at all. If you guys have got any suggestions? 👍

Stu Littlefair

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1836
  • Karma: +283/-2
    • http://www.darkpeakimages.co.uk
I think you should copy and paste an enormous CAVEAT before each of your posts in big red letters.

Either that, or you can agree to a day at Raven Tor once a month where everyone can hit you with brickbats (inside bouldering mats).

Or, you could carry on and accept that people are going to feel directly criticised.

All work for me...

andy_e

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 8836
  • Karma: +275/-42
Ask Salt Beef he knows, cos he’s Zen as fuck and of the old school when men were men and drank a six pack of lager and ate a massive vindaloo as preparAtion. Moobs were an essential climbing asscesory

;D

You'd be disappointed with the incredible physique he's rocking nowadays. He makes Hercules and Cacus look like a pair of school boys.

Archetypal Dadbod

user deactivated

  • Guest
I know you love it really Stu 😉

user deactivated

  • Guest
And there’s probably only about 3 crags I need to avoid to ensure I don’t face the bouldermatbrick bats of doom 😂

Moo

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Is an idiot
  • Posts: 1444
  • Karma: +84/-6
I think your posts are mirroring personal questions which you have about your motivations and reasons for climbing Dan. Not everybody has the same questions and often reading your stuff it just comes across as a moot point as people have either come to their own conclusions or just don't care to think about it.

I'm sure you've put plenty of time in on a board as have quite a few people on here. Do you think that if that training time had paid off for you in a big way and you were smashing 8b+ bouldering problems, or knocking off the odd 9a route and consequently being further motivated to train, you'd feel compelled to ask these questions and invite the perspective of others ?

 

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal