[moose]

Where do you stand on this response on ukc Dan? The idea that any of this is ‘disrespectful’ made me chuckle. Strange times.
UKC reply-
Likewise, to simply dismiss Franco's efforts and call foul because he didn't tow the party line....

Well, at least one good thing has come from this; UKC get to contribute an "eggcorn".

[Doylo]

Doesn’t need a news item on a national climbing website though does it Dave.

[carlisle slapper]

To be fair, Ned myself and Dolph are all guilty of pissing around doing link ups on one of the countries best problems (careless) it was just after we'd all ground upped it and we didn't seek to write them up. it definitely sullies the line a bit though when this happens.

I've also bouldered many lines which have gear so i understand its just a way of climbing and setting the exposure level. Nowadays i'd have used the gear on this link but when i was 18 probably not (e.g on Earthboots at rivelin).

Committing to the top is a great effort, not just a massive helmet but the spuds to back it up. the people posting who i know have been up there all say so as they know it involves a really focussed few moves.

This surely has to open the door to more people climbing the young ground up. As if the gear is used it's not going to be worlds different than a TR, 7B/+ GU has been with us since the early 80's in the county (Kremlin) lest we forget. Fair play to franco for not using the gear for the sake of style but its so obviously there it'll be worth it for many and the main weirdness with its height is that it's justifiable as a boulder or a short route depending on approach. It's the youngs fault for being enterable/escapable at the jug and the top pinch, poor setting if you ask me, should've left the jug off. Until now we've all ignored the VS in the room in favour of that impeccable wall.

Hopefully the fact that this is still a good effort comes through, its just weird as you can feel the audience clamouring for the whole show so they can clap.

In a shit week of proper news this and the new Alan Partridge have been just the ticket.

[Ged]

Franco's bit. If we're being brutally honest, this was nothing but a failed attempt at something. No shame in that, we all fail sometimes and failing can sometimes provide some of the most memorable and powerful experiences. We can learn from failing and failing can even be intensely satisfying. No doubt this was a very fine effort from Franco - a noble failure if you like - but then he wrote to UKC to spin his failure to climb The Young as a new variant worthy of a news story. That is the bullshit part. If doing the top ground up was such a satisfying experience then why did it need this embellishment?

Well put Andy. That's the whole thing that leaves a bitter taste for me.

[Johnny Brown]

Franco's bit. If we're being brutally honest, this was nothing but a failed attempt at something. No shame in that, we all fail sometimes and failing can sometimes provide some of the most memorable and powerful experiences. We can learn from failing and failing can even be intensely satisfying. No doubt this was a very fine effort from Franco - a noble failure if you like - but then he wrote to UKC to spin his failure to climb The Young as a new variant worthy of a news story. That is the bullshit part. If doing the top ground up was such a satisfying experience then why did it need this embellishment?

It's a fair summary but it does rely entirely on the premise that posting on UKC is significantly different to posting on Instagram or your own blog, and likewise that making a 'news' item on UKC has any real significance. I think the differences are a lot smaller than it was in the days of print media, and will continue to diminish. It's a distinction I'm struggling to get exercised over to be honest, if the height of controversy nowadays is 'ooh the fucker posted on the wrong website' I'll gladly take it over the did he/ didn't he of the past.

[Bradders]

did he/ didn't he

No video. Maybe he didn't even do what he's claimed...!

 

[Somebody's Fool]

Franco's bit. If we're being brutally honest, this was nothing but a failed attempt at something. No shame in that, we all fail sometimes and failing can sometimes provide some of the most memorable and powerful experiences. We can learn from failing and failing can even be intensely satisfying. No doubt this was a very fine effort from Franco - a noble failure if you like - but then he wrote to UKC to spin his failure to climb The Young as a new variant worthy of a news story. That is the bullshit part. If doing the top ground up was such a satisfying experience then why did it need this embellishment?

It's a fair summary but it does rely entirely on the premise that posting on UKC is significantly different to posting on Instagram or your own blog, and likewise that making a 'news' item on UKC has any real significance. I think the differences are a lot smaller than it was in the days of print media, and will continue to diminish. It's a distinction I'm struggling to get exercised over to be honest, if the height of controversy nowadays is 'ooh the fucker posted on the wrong website' I'll gladly take it over the did he/ didn't he of the past.

Isn't the point of modern journalism to report something in a contentious or highly polarised manner, and then open the comments section?

[andy popp]

Franco's bit. If we're being brutally honest, this was nothing but a failed attempt at something. No shame in that, we all fail sometimes and failing can sometimes provide some of the most memorable and powerful experiences. We can learn from failing and failing can even be intensely satisfying. No doubt this was a very fine effort from Franco - a noble failure if you like - but then he wrote to UKC to spin his failure to climb The Young as a new variant worthy of a news story. That is the bullshit part. If doing the top ground up was such a satisfying experience then why did it need this embellishment?

It's a fair summary but it does rely entirely on the premise that posting on UKC is significantly different to posting on Instagram or your own blog, and likewise that making a 'news' item on UKC has any real significance. I think the differences are a lot smaller than it was in the days of print media, and will continue to diminish. It's a distinction I'm struggling to get exercised over to be honest, if the height of controversy nowadays is 'ooh the fucker posted on the wrong website' I'll gladly take it over the did he/ didn't he of the past.

I get what you mean, but its much more the framing than the outlet. It could have been an interesting feature article about trying something, not quite doing it, but still finding it really rewarding. But its specifically presented as news, that's the issue, as far as I'm concerned. I also suspect that for a lot of UKC readers the site is very significantly different from Instagram.

[Will Hunt]

This is brilliant, here we were all ready to doff caps after Franco manages to climb something hard in good style and it turns out he just had to be Franco.

only Franco goes to ground up the young, calls it eliminate, fragile and escapable and climbs up a VS over a metre to the right which takes bomber gear and would essentially render the upper part like being next to a bolt with those cams you could place, like soloing an e5 7a. claims to still be just as bold by not placing the gear, which is a really good effort but also pointless as if you've climbed a bloody VS crack to access the upper part and are by all accounts a trad climber. The top holds were clearly cleaned and chalked but i've seen no mention of that. especially if i'd have seen anyone on that bit. Also you can traverse into those moves from the crack if you like, with gear even higher.

As ever it feels like Franco has twisted things to suit him and make up for a lack of ability but loads of boldness. This is a great effort breaking down a new highball font 7B+ link up ground up with a high crux and a logical way to do it, just don't try and sell knowledgable ukb people a word salad of it being remotely as hard as Andy's 2001 route. climbing through the bottom wont wear it out but lapping a 7B/+ does tire anyone out and makes working the upper section harder. in essence whilst being totally logical to traverse in from an effort point of view its killed any cachet of ground upping the young if thats the way its going to play out as you may as well just whack some cams in and sort the top then do the whole thing once you've got it wired. Save the knees for the highball lines where you cant escape in or out next to bomber gear (there's one 20m away)

Will i'm not overly chuffed watching you flippantly reduce mine and Mickys efforts because you wrote a misleading description. On the day i did the young (i'd ground upped to the dinner plates on my first session before) i abbed it once, only checked the upper part once (exactly the same way andy went, 7A/+ as a highball grade) then did it first try from the ground. The main reason for the rope at the top was that Marks light stand was tied off in the line of the exit with huge tree root handles, so i agreed to just pull through the wet bilberrys on the left using the rope. it didn't seem worth scalping the top of the boulder or forcing mark to change what he was doing as essentially i was on top of the crag already. other than sea cliff trad this is the only instance where i've use a rope to pull through vegetation. I had 3 pads but no spotters to move them, had Mark not been there i wouldn't have gone for it so it was a compromise to make it work, nor did i look to keep it quiet that i'd used one. I hardly "topped out with it" and using the same holds in a different order is fine everywhere except pinches wall and minus ten. Cheers though

Micky and Ned's problem out left isn't exactly just "traversing" off either, nor did they even bother writing it up. its not a break and there are tricky unprotectable moves to go leftwards, they just don't gain as much height. It is an independent finish as it takes you away from the crack. If it wasnt for their better beta in the middle being on film i'd say that would've taken much more working out too. at 7Cish its a logical line and one with no gear options. again all this was 8/9 years ago and there have been a lot of hard highball GU ascents of other lines since, up to font 8B.

Dan, I guess you know this, but my post wasn't really trying to belittle yours or anyone's efforts, because why would I? You went and did some climbing, didn't chip or damage the crag or the rock, and you were honest about what you did. So all's well.

The post was trying to illustrate the point that people are much more prepared to call out Franco than others. If people had wanted to call you out for a bit of a rope tug going over the top on wet holds they could have done. Or said "back around" or whatever.

I've never climbed with Franco but one of my good chums, Dave, is one of his bezzie mates. Dave isn't strong, but he's good. He approaches climbs with a stoic boldness, plodding ever upwards. If he gets to a move he finds difficult he just hangs on for long enough that the holds in front of him become bigger by natural erosion, then he plods through. I respect his climbing a lot. He always describes Franco as a really good climber in ONE style - weird, crimpy, bold wall climbing. Incidentally this type of climbing is hideously unfashionable. He doesn't seem to like bouldering much and he didn't seem to do a lot of sport. And he's done most of his climbing in relative backwaters which seems to irk people. It's a shame because he's an interesting climber with a lot of personality. Stacks more personality and far more remarkable in his chosen discipline than lots of people who get free shoes nowadays.

Obviously he's not done The Young. I'd like to see him go back and do it.

As to UKC's reporting of it, they'll print literally anything. The fact that they just published what was sent to them with no further questions or insight shows you as much.

[webbo]

Will
As you seem to have been at Franco’s on the evening when he’d been at Cally what did he say he’d done.
As you were the one who reported he’d done The Young on here.

[Will Hunt]

I hadn't met Franco before last weekend. We used to antagonise each other a bit on UKC when we were teenagers. I had a couple of free days and Dave said that Franco would put me up, which he did at short notice. Dave mentioned that he was trying The Young ground up. All I knew about this was that Gav had said on here that it would be significant.
Russell and Si came round in the morning and we talked about Brexit. Dave and I went to Callerhues and got back to Franco's after dark. Dave had had a text from Franco saying he'd had success. We said well done and then I chatted on a lot about how great Callerhues was and all the routes we'd done that day and that we'd climbed something easy and obvious and decent and it transpired to be unrecorded. Not a great deal more was said. We had dinner where Dave and I reminisced about uni friends and then I drove home.

So, sorry to disappoint, Steve. Nobody has lied, but I had an idea in mind about what Franco had done and we didn't talk about it in sufficient depth to get the detail.

[ali k]

What did you have for dinner?

[Doylo]

What’s he ever done at Pot Hole Quarry anyway?

[webbo]

You don’t have to be sorry Will. I was just trying to understand how something done for someone’s own satisfaction had become national climbing news.

[Will Hunt]

What did you have for dinner?

I skipped the starter but the main was nice.

[webbo]

What did you have for dinner?

I skipped the starter but the main was nice.

I hope Broccoli was involved somewhere.

[Oldmanmatt]

What did you have for dinner?

I skipped the starter but the main was nice.

I see you are avoiding the dessert issue.

You had two desserts didn’t you?!

And I bet you finished the cream, too...

[tomtom]

What did you have for dinner?

I skipped the starter but the main was nice.

I see you are avoiding the dessert issue.

You had two desserts didn’t you?!

And I bet you finished the cream, too...

😱 two deserts and you’re tall!

[mrjonathanr]

You don’t have to be sorry Will. I was just trying to understand how something done for someone’s own satisfaction had become national climbing news.

It hasn’t really- has it?? Someone has sprayed about an ascent so it sounds more impressive/newsworthy than it really is. Not that unusual on ukc I shouldn’t have thought.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Good post by Will above.

 

How about referring to Franco's ascent as The Jung? 

[Franco]

I don't think there's a lot more to add to this, but I do want to make it clear that I have nothing but respect for Andy's routes. I've already talked about what I see as the County Trilogy. The Young may be escapable at two points, but the climbing is utterly superb. I'm sure it will continue to be a coveted tick, despite the evident issues that the 2/3 people who have tried it ground up have found.  The Dark Side is one of the best anywhere and the Prow looks equally amazing. So this was in no way a pop at Andy, just trying to add an honest assessment of the route's merits and potential problems.

I've messed up the way I've justified the crack start. I'm not saying it's the line of weakness. I think the line in its entirety is worth while, just that I wasn't particularly bothered about doing it each time. I've re-read some of the stuff I wrote and it does sound like I'm advocating leaving the start altogether. I was interested in bouldering all the moves, but the unknown for me on this route was whether the hardish moves at the top could be worked out ground up. I was buzzing my nut off when I did it, which is probably why I made such a hash of writing it up. Maybe the lack of effort in doing the start each time comes across as a lack of respect for the route. I'm trying to learn how to climb on county sandstone better these days and my general rule is, if it feels wrong, stop. It felt wrong doing the start so many times. 

I do still maintain that the start adds very little to the overall difficulty of the climb, even with pretty mediocre sport fitness. From the initial reporting, I did always say it added a little bit, but not sport grades of difference to the challenge. People have been talking as if the bottom boulder problem is the crux of the climb, which is miles from the reality. It's fine once you know what you're doing and quite unphysical.

People have also said I overstated the rests. I described the points in between the three boulder problems as "shake-outs" on my blog and agree the top one isn't great (just swapping hands and chalking), but the one after this first boulder problem is good. I didn't spend long there on the video because the bottom boulder problem really doesn't tire you out. You're mostly just waiting for the feeling in your fingers to come back. 

As for the reporting, I mentioned it to Nick when chatting about something else and even caveatted it with "possibly worth deciding whether you are happy to carry that level of nonsense controversy before I send you owt". I have to say, despite having said that, I'm quite surprised by the level of criticism on this. If I'm totally honest, I felt like I'd done The Young. Obviously it was a bit of a weird ascent, but given the strange line of the route, I thought it was a decent and pragmatic way of doing it. I kind of expected people who had been on the climb to back me up on this, but I see that hasn't really happened - so maybe I've been a bit naive there. I think The Young is a climb that holds a very special place in a lot of people's hearts and so me saying all this, once again, potentially looks like a lack of respect.

So to sum up, maybe I'm wrong to feel like I've taken on the main challenge of that wall. Maybe I'm wrong about the line. Maybe I shouldn't have shared my experience. I think climbing is best when people go and do interesting things in new ways and our default position is to assume that most other climbers are decent people.

[user deactivated]

A lot of subtext in there. After reading the thread about it on ukclimbing, I’d probably just forget all about it and go ‘climbing’ instead. There’s certainly very little joy and a lot of self seriousness. The idea that anyone can be disrespected by climbing a bit of rock is bizarre. I’m currently surfing a bizarre urge to disrespect the gaggle of self important bellends going on about respect 😂

[Andy F]

Franco,

We haven't often (never) seen eye to eye. I completely respect your climbing. In many ways it's old school. Ground up. Little pre practice. To be admired in the instaspamfaceache age.

But ffs stop justifying your achievements. Just enjoy them. With your mates. In the pub.

Old school style.

[shurt]

Bob Marley said 'you can't please all the people all the time'. This is more true on the internet than in normal life so fuck it.
Franco, maybe stop reading the internet for a while and as Andy said enjoy what you've just done...

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Good account by Franco above, in my opinion, and exactly how I'd read it.

I think that  we approach climbing is as news worthy as the end product - if not more so.