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Franco's ground up ascent of The Young at Callaly (Read 9433 times)

Smith42

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Franco, great effort to do the top out without prior inspection. 
I think what has got some peoples backs up is that the title is the ‘ground up ascent of The Young’.  What Franco has climbed is a variation start to the Young. 
The true ground up ascent of the Young still awaits, but this ascent has MASSIVELY broken down that psychological barrier that the top section can be climbed ground up. 
The only other known (?) ground up was by Mikey Page and he avoided the top section off left and then the video title was the Young 8A+ so lets cut Franco a little slack on this one eh?

petejh

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Franco, just call it an FA and call it a day. The Foung 7C, 3 stars.

If the start to the other problem does fall apart then your line becomes the star attraction :smartass:

The Dung?

Franco attention-seeking.. Could call it 'The Same Old'.

SA Chris

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the title is the ground up ascent of 'The Young’. 

To be fair I don't think Franco wrote that. maybe the ' ' either side would make it more appropriate.


36chambers

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Franco, just call it an FA and call it a day. The Foung 7C, 3 stars.

If the start to the other problem does fall apart then your line becomes the star attraction :smartass:

The Dung?

There's also the obvious LGP link-up of The Dung into "Micky's Cop-out" for any keen first ascensionist

kelvin

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There's also the obvious LGP link-up of The Dung into "Micky's Cop-out" for any keen first ascensionist

The Easy Way Up.

ferret

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Don't forget boulder problem start then top out the crack. Could be the new Pillbox.

gme

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I've lost track of who has been up this bit of rock now. Is it fair to say that, in fact, nobody has repeated Earl's The Young? Dan used a different sequence on the crux which doesn't accord with Tim's ambition and he certainly used a rope to top out. Micky bottled it and traversed off left. Are there any more takers?

Funny. I don't seem to remember such scrutiny of Micky when he climbed the rock and the footage then appeared captioned as The Young 8A+ in a commercial film. Or when Dan did it and pulled on a rope to top out.
http://beastmakerblog.blogspot.com/2010/11/

Dan did do the exact route that andy did using the same holds but, like the classic Eric morecambe joke “not  necessarily in the correct order.”  No idea where the idea you had to finish directly came from as the guidebook clearly states move back right until standing on the jug. I told Franco the sequence to do this which I guess is the way he did it.
Reading the description Dan only used a rope to get up the bank at the top of the route after he had got the finish jug, and it is a jug.
Neds and Micky’s sequence and I suspect the way Franco does it,  is identical to Andy’s other than they now put the heel into the jug for the cross over which makes the move much easier.

I think the only reason the film is out there is nic got a load of footage whilst filming for life on hold and didn’t want to use it in the film as , like Franco, they didn’t do the route. Seems a waste to not use it so he does a quick edit and bungs it up to entertain us all.

The young is an absolutely amazing route with some of the best holds and climbing on anything I have ever tried. It would stand proud in the middle of font. 

Franco has found out it, like many routes, is escapeable but I can assure you the way he chose to do it is not the route nor is it the most logical line either in the eyes of a route climber or boulderer, and his approach has turned what could have been one of the most impressive ascents in the country into a farce.




Ged

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Devils advocate here, do you think maybe it’s because alongside the very honest description of what he did there is a blog post titled with a route name that he didn’t do and an awful lot of description about the legendary status of a route that he didn’t do? And a name and a grade written in the Instagram post, again of a route he didn’t climb?

It just seems odd to publiscise something he describes as personally meaningful in that way, when you haven’t done the legendary route in question.

Quite.
Just give it a different name and grade, or if you think it's the same grade then give it a different name and the same grade.

Or, and call me crazy here, don't blag about it on the internet and write to UKC reporting what you've done.  That would seemingly solve the issue.  Also probably explains why Mickey didn't get any stick for finishing out left.  I don't recall him writing to UKC to tell everyone about his weekend.

 I couldn't particularly give a monkeys how people do routes, or variations.  But if you're going to publicize yourself in this way, you need to be prepared to be open to criticism.  It's not like it's just a blog post.  Franco has actively chosen to seek attention for this.

Dan Cheetham

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I can’t imagine the headmaster or his deputies could give a monkeys either or possibly even Franco, and definitely not the thousands of climbers who will be reading about it outside of ukb. Radically authentic or full of insta bullshit who knows?

andy popp

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I was kind of behind Franco on this way one, as it seemed to be he'd never actually claimed to have done The Young. But having it written up on UKC as a news story, claiming to have climbed a new variant, is ridiculous (missing some of the original climbing by climbing an easier adjacent route is not a variant). How much Franco had to do with the UKC story is another issue though. The article begins "Speaking to UKC, Franco said ... " but then just verbatim quotes the blog with a couple of linking sentences added here and there. As a piece of journalism it isn't a piece of journalism.

Ged

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There's a reply from one of the UKC people saying that Franco wrote to them with the report, then published it on his blog afterwards. 

webbo

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Will posted first about Franco’s ascent, it would appear he was unaware of what had gone on about the start. As he was staying at Franco’s one might assume that the bit about the start someone didn’t get mentioned at first.

carlisle slapper

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This is brilliant, here we were all ready to doff caps after Franco manages to climb something hard in good style and it turns out he just had to be Franco.

only Franco goes to ground up the young, calls it eliminate, fragile and escapable and climbs up a VS over a metre to the right which takes bomber gear and would essentially render the upper part like being next to a bolt with those cams you could place, like soloing an e5 7a. claims to still be just as bold by not placing the gear, which is a really good effort but also pointless as if you've climbed a bloody VS crack to access the upper part and are by all accounts a trad climber. The top holds were clearly cleaned and chalked but i've seen no mention of that. especially if i'd have seen anyone on that bit. Also you can traverse into those moves from the crack if you like, with gear even higher.

As ever it feels like Franco has twisted things to suit him and make up for a lack of ability but loads of boldness. This is a great effort breaking down a new highball font 7B+ link up ground up with a high crux and a logical way to do it, just don't try and sell knowledgable ukb people a word salad of it being remotely as hard as Andy's 2001 route. climbing through the bottom wont wear it out but lapping a 7B/+ does tire anyone out and makes working the upper section harder. in essence whilst being totally logical to traverse in from an effort point of view its killed any cachet of ground upping the young if thats the way its going to play out as you may as well just whack some cams in and sort the top then do the whole thing once you've got it wired. Save the knees for the highball lines where you cant escape in or out next to bomber gear (there's one 20m away)

Will i'm not overly chuffed watching you flippantly reduce mine and Mickys efforts because you wrote a misleading description. On the day i did the young (i'd ground upped to the dinner plates on my first session before) i abbed it once, only checked the upper part once (exactly the same way andy went, 7A/+ as a highball grade) then did it first try from the ground. The main reason for the rope at the top was that Marks light stand was tied off in the line of the exit with huge tree root handles, so i agreed to just pull through the wet bilberrys on the left using the rope. it didn't seem worth scalping the top of the boulder or forcing mark to change what he was doing as essentially i was on top of the crag already. other than sea cliff trad this is the only instance where i've use a rope to pull through vegetation. I had 3 pads but no spotters to move them, had Mark not been there i wouldn't have gone for it so it was a compromise to make it work, nor did i look to keep it quiet that i'd used one. I hardly "topped out with it" and using the same holds in a different order is fine everywhere except pinches wall and minus ten. Cheers though

Micky and Ned's problem out left isn't exactly just "traversing" off either, nor did they even bother writing it up. its not a break and there are tricky unprotectable moves to go leftwards, they just don't gain as much height. It is an independent finish as it takes you away from the crack. If it wasnt for their better beta in the middle being on film i'd say that would've taken much more working out too. at 7Cish its a logical line and one with no gear options. again all this was 8/9 years ago and there have been a lot of hard highball GU ascents of other lines since, up to font 8B.



Fiend

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The HVS crack is pretty good to be fair....

Dan Cheetham

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Where do you stand on this response on ukc Dan? The idea that any of this is ‘disrespectful’ made me chuckle. Strange times.

UKC reply-
“This view that we should only report on black and white ascents is a strange one. If this was all that climbing was, it would be very dull.  Also, to give Andy Earl ownership over that bit of rock and to criticise anyone who veers away from what he did is slightly disrespectful. Andy undoubtedly climbed the line of the crag, but to write off what Ned Feehally and Micky Page climbed would be unfair because it was a similarly impressive bit of climbing, done in one session, at great height. More than anything it contextualises Andy’s superb first ascent; two world-class boulderers weren’t able to climb the direct line in a session, but added a logical addition which takes a different line of weakness.

Likewise, to simply dismiss Franco's efforts and call foul because he didn't tow the party line ignores the fact that he did some hard climbing, well above the deck and ground-up. Whilst previous ascensionists have climbed a harder sequence, they've known the moves and been able to practise them. I’m sure people will go back soon and push the style of ascent forward once again. The non-linear lines and story of this bit of rock are what makes climbing so interesting and enjoyable.

Anyone who has met Franco also knows how absurd the idea is that he has masterminded all this for publicity. He has been nothing but clear and honest in the way he has described what he climbed. He has also expressed his satisfaction with what he climbed, which is the aim of any climber. Not only has it stirred up and interesting debate, but it also adds to Northumberland’s rich tapestry of climbing history. Life really would be boring if success (in a conventional manner) was all that mattered.“

C Coldwell-Storry

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I'm gunna walk in. Do this ground up in a couple of goes...take a shit at the bottom and then fuck off.

turnipturned

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I'm gunna walk in. Do this ground up in a couple of goes...take a shit at the bottom and then fuck off.

Won’t be the first time!!

Dan Cheetham

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I'm gunna walk in. Do this ground up in a couple of goes...take a shit at the bottom and then fuck off.

Don’t forget your wooden pallets and 10 mats 😂


reeve

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I'm gunna walk in. Do this ground up in a couple of goes...take a shit at the bottom and then fuck off.

Tell me when you're heading there, I'll smash into your car for the full experience

Dan Cheetham

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Maybe you could slip him some imodium at the same time Reeve. Ukc could make a follow up film:

‘Bowels on hold’

andy popp

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This has turned out to be complete bullshit.

Dan Cheetham

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Which bit? It was just getting interesting.

andy popp

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Franco's bit. If we're being brutally honest, this was nothing but a failed attempt at something. No shame in that, we all fail sometimes and failing can sometimes provide some of the most memorable and powerful experiences. We can learn from failing and failing can even be intensely satisfying. No doubt this was a very fine effort from Franco - a noble failure if you like - but then he wrote to UKC to spin his failure to climb The Young as a new variant worthy of a news story. That is the bullshit part. If doing the top ground up was such a satisfying experience then why did it need this embellishment?

Andy F

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So, in summary,

Franco could do the bottom but not then the top.

He skipped the bottom and did the top.

This is now big news.


DAVETHOMAS90

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Where do you stand on this response on ukc Dan? The idea that any of this is ‘disrespectful’ made me chuckle. Strange times.

UKC reply-
“This view that we should only report on black and white ascents is a strange one. If this was all that climbing was, it would be very dull.  Also, to give Andy Earl ownership over that bit of rock and to criticise anyone who veers away from what he did is slightly disrespectful. Andy undoubtedly climbed the line of the crag, but to write off what Ned Feehally and Micky Page climbed would be unfair because it was a similarly impressive bit of climbing, done in one session, at great height. More than anything it contextualises Andy’s superb first ascent; two world-class boulderers weren’t able to climb the direct line in a session, but added a logical addition which takes a different line of weakness.

Likewise, to simply dismiss Franco's efforts and call foul because he didn't tow the party line ignores the fact that he did some hard climbing, well above the deck and ground-up. Whilst previous ascensionists have climbed a harder sequence, they've known the moves and been able to practise them. I’m sure people will go back soon and push the style of ascent forward once again. The non-linear lines and story of this bit of rock are what makes climbing so interesting and enjoyable.

Anyone who has met Franco also knows how absurd the idea is that he has masterminded all this for publicity. He has been nothing but clear and honest in the way he has described what he climbed. He has also expressed his satisfaction with what he climbed, which is the aim of any climber. Not only has it stirred up and interesting debate, but it also adds to Northumberland’s rich tapestry of climbing history. Life really would be boring if success (in a conventional manner) was all that mattered.“

Seems pretty measured and appropriate to me. Certainly reads that way.

I found it hard reading some of the above (in this thread) which came across as a lot of projection as to his motivations - and overly damning.

This reads as someone being enticed by the bold upper line, and being open about their approach and actions.

I think it's great when people share what they're enthused by, without it having to be seen as attention seeking.

It does sound as though mistakes have been made in how it was reported, but to imply some ulterior motive seems a judgement too far.

There have been a number of higher profile protagonists, who've tried to explore the boundaries of the sport, who've then been ripped apart in the forums, and this seems to be more of the same.

That's not the same thing as saying don't criticise or question, which in this case perhaps just needed to be restricted to the question of "How do we report this ascent?".