[ducko]

The owners of the gwyrch castle are trying to block off the woods which host the Llandullas caves where plenty of old weak people go to fall off
Please sign this petition and help us keep access

http://chng.it/gmLn9gnYHb

Thanks guys

[RobK]

Would be a real shame this. Great crag, especially on a hot summer day. I don't think I'm old so I guess that makes me weak 

[Ru]

There may be some legal avenues to consider.

It may be that the paths could become public rights of way under the principle of presumed dedication if they are over defined routes, there has been use for 20 years or more and access has been used as of right (rather than permission having been granted). Permission would probably take the form of signage.

Secondly, if the castle is owned by a charitable trust it may be against the aims/purposes of the trust to prevent public access if the beneficiaries are the public.

Have you emailed the BMC access teams?

[RobK]

I think they're aware. This is from Elfyn Jones on the A55 Facebook group:

We are aware of a change in ownership and that the new owner (associated with Gwrych Castle) has started some fencing works to prevent public access. We are looking into it and discussing options with the local community council. Locals have used the area for informal recreation without hindrance for many years but legally it is private land without any registered public rights over it.
All BMC staff have been part time furloghed until the end of April, and we are strictly limited by regulations to only work  our new reduced hours so apologies if we can't follow up on this as quickly as I'd like.

[RobK]

Update on the other channel:

Access update Feb 2021

As people may have seen for other threads and on social media, there have been rumours cicrulating of changes to land ownership and possible access issues here. BMC have investigated and the landownership situation is complicated.  The bulk of the area, including the actual cliff faces appears to be under the ownership of Gwrych Castle Preservation Trust, who state that they have not ever given permisson for any public access to their land. Some of this land is also under a historic lease to Natural Resources Wales but its unclear if that lease permits them to manage or allow public access.  BMC understands that there are ongoing discussions between NRW and Gwrych Castle Trust regarding this lease.  The land directly below (literally up to the base of the rockfaces) of the the  Forgotten Sun to Main Cave area appears to be owned by a third party absentee landowner. BMC have not had any contact with this landowner. There are rumours that this parcel of land may have recently changed onwership but contrary to information circulating in the local media, both NRW and Gwrych Castle Trust categorically deny that they have or that they ever intend to buy this land.

The land bordering the cliffs is on open access land but again it does not seem that the actual rockfaces are within that area.  The whole area is a Site of Special Scientific Interest and it's vital that whatever the status of access might be, that recreational users do not damage the flora or any other special interests of this site - including no vegetation removal, no modification of rockfaces or disturbing nesting birds or roosing bats in the caves.

The local community have used this area for general walking and recreation, unopposed and without hinderance, for many years and there is a local campaign underway to try to pursue a claim for public rights of way over parts of this land.

In the meantime, if people do encounter any access issues then please contact the BMC and we are still in discusions with all the relevant parties to do what we can to protect access to this venue.

Elfyn Jones

BMC Access & Conservation Officer (Wales)