[user deactivated]

Does climbing news really matter anymore? So I was flicking through recent news articles on ukc and in between a gear review and a Gresh training article on ‘how to toe hook’ I saw a picture of some blokes stood under Neanderthal I’m guessing all have climbed 9b. Anyway I couldn’t even be arsed to click on the link and I thought god this really doesn’t matter anymore. It’s all become so homogenised and one achievement after the other appearing on a conveyor belt of tedium. It’s like looking at the hair styles book in a Toni and Guy. This of course is an irreversible situation particularly as I have the concentration span of a gnat due to consuming this shite for the past few years. Right, good, glad I got that off my chest.

[36chambers]

It’s like looking at the hair styles book in a Toni and Guy.

I'm really diggin Shawn Raboutou's hair at the moment, so I pay attention when I see him. Various other hair styles are interesting to follow too. But there's plenty that I really don't care about and some just seem like they're trying too hard to get my attention and/or trying to sell me something I don't want. I really couldn't care less about Gresh's hair for example.

[user deactivated]

Excellent point, is there anyone with a bowl cut out there?

[36chambers]

Excellent point, is there anyone with a bowl cut out there?

Isaac Buckley?

edit: back on topic, I do agree with your OP

[user deactivated]

To much Cure, they must only have just hit NZ. Gotta love The Cure tho. Are you his number one fan? 😬

[user deactivated]

‘Hair today, gone tomorrow’

[haydn jones]

I think the majority of the news these days are all quick fix news pieces that are written really quickly the day after "The Send", where as I still really enjoy a good article that's had a lot of time put into it like you used to get in the magazines.

I find a lot of the stuff pumped out
by UKC now boring, but there are still a few quality pieces that come through. You just have to keep an eye out for them.

[user deactivated]

Totally agree Haydn, it’s not so much about ukc (although I’m not exactly a fan, but that’s more of an anti establishment thing). I’ve a feeling that Instagram feeds would be even worse, but I’m not signed up there.

[guypercival]

We are rapacious consumers of internet content whether is is Facebook, instagram websites etc

The websites need traffic to generate revenue and will get loads of daily clicks if the consumer is going to get something new each day. The content quality doesn’t matter that much as long as it isn’t the same stuff as yesterday.

There are loads of sponsored climbers who have acute awareness of social media and put what they have done very quickly. As a result tons of stuff to report.

I remember the days before the internet was invented. I would really look forward to the next edition of the climbing magazines to see who had done what and where.  Those days now seem so long ago.

[tomtom]

The project magazine (I think) have tried to balance this out with ad free - more in-depth articles and photo-essays.

This - I feel - is a very commmendable aim, though I personally don’t really like their content.

The points Dan made in the OP though are those made at media in general - online has meant a massive desire for quantity - and with that the quality has dropped. Also traditional journalistic skills (framing arguments, correct research) are dwindling amongst writers - and editorial powers/direction/role has dwindled. 

[tomtom]

(I did I wonder if the four grinning fellas under Neanderthal were so happy because they’d all just had a big poo under the route AKA ‘Tilberthwaiting’...

[user deactivated]

When I made films for the project magazine I was quite excited at the opportunity to make something a bit different that had a platform to be seen on. Ironically while I think some of the interviews and Dave's photos are great the general tone, style and content feels a bit like a navel gazing ikea lifestyle magazine

[Yossarian]

It’s like looking at the hair styles book in a Toni and Guy.

I'm really diggin Shawn Raboutou's hair at the moment, so I pay attention when I see him. Various other hair styles are interesting to follow too. But there's plenty that I really don't care about and some just seem like they're trying too hard to get my attention and/or trying to sell me something I don't want. I really couldn't care less about Gresh's hair for example.

I’m really hoping that Dan Turner does a hair episode on his YouTube channel sometime. He’s started a few videos with some pretty epic styling.



This one for instance starts with something quite unique, but there’s no real explanation of what he was trying to achieve, what products he uses, etc.

I for one would be really keen to see a series of episodes covering his full haircare regime.

[Yossarian]

I’ve thought for a while that mountain biking has been very well-served with sites like Yonder Journal and The Radavist.

https://mythicalstateof.com/syd-2-mel-normcore-bicycle-tour/

http://yonderjournal.com.s170181.gridserver.com

https://theradavist.com/2019/01/autumn-amongst-the-araucarias-ryan-wilson/#69

Missions / adventures presented with a bit of flair. The OTE Nose in a Day article from years ago was framed in almost this exact way. Of course, it’s much easier when you’ve either got a deep-pocketed sponsor (like Specialized in the case of Yonder, now paused anyway) or lots of cool little advertisers (like the Radavist).

I’ve wondered for ages whether it would be possible to do something like this for climbing...

[cheque]

I’ve a feeling that Instagram feeds would be even worse, but I’m not signed up there.

It depends who you follow. You only see the posts of people you choose to so if you just stick to, for example, climbing photographers who only post when they have a good picture and will put an interesting little paragraph or two with it then that’s what you see a feed of- quite a nice thing to have available in your pocket whenever you’re bored I find. Likewise if you only follow nobheads who spam pictures of themselves fingerboarding, selfies or uncredited buttshots of routes they tried but didn’t get up last summer every 6 hours then you deserve to get annoyed with it.

You can’t expect Instagram to be a high quality news service. People learn of climbing news on there ‘cos that’s where wads spray about their ascents first but it’s not curated by anyone but you.

[andy_e]

RIP climbing as a counterculture. I used to love climbing-related media such as OTE, Friction, Gravity, Momentum Video Mag, there was a free US mag that was available here too that I forget the name of, etc., but pretty much lost interest as soon as OTE became Climb. Project has a lot of that underground vibe that I crave, but other than that I read very little to do with climbing outside of UKB.

[spidermonkey09]

Strong grumpy thread this. Good point from Cheque about Instagram though, which I also don't have. Same argument as Twitter (which I do); that what you see is almost entirely down to you. If someone is annoying you, you stop following them.

Re the Project, I've liked a few of their pieces (the Hard Grit one springs to mind) but a lot of it has also struck me as thinly disguised ego massaging masquerading as good writing. I have also heard stories about not paying their contributors which really ticks me off. No one should be working for free; if you can't afford to pay your staff the business shouldn't exist. If this has changed I stand corrected!

[Oldmanmatt]

RIP climbing as a counterculture. I used to love climbing-related media such as OTE, Friction, Gravity, Momentum Video Mag, there was a free US mag that was available here too that I forget the name of, etc., but pretty much lost interest as soon as OTE became Climb. Project has a lot of that underground vibe that I crave, but other than that I read very little to do with climbing outside of UKB.

You know where you’re posting, right?

There’s not much Ikea, Lifestyle or even Hairstyle; about UKB.

It’s definitely Café culture, but not a hipster, Civet shit, café; more 19th century, Parisian, Revolutionary den of iniquity...

Edit:

I’m the one all in black, sat in the corner, smoking tailor made Turkish cigarettes, glass of Absinthe half forgotten; predicting doom and raging against the Aristocracy.

[jwi]

Since Lucien Martinez took over writing the news on Grimper it's all you need to read really. He writes well, is not afraid to give his opinions, and know the routes in southern France and northern Spain very well.

I like planetmountain.com for news as well. They often wait until they have a decent interview before publishing.

I cannot stand quoting instagram post as “news”. If I wanted to read syntactically suspect, misspelled self-published hype I'd follow Trump on twitter. Seriously, athletes should do athletic things, not write (unless they like to and are willing to work towards being good at it, so Caprez, Bodet, Desgrange etc are excused.)

[turnipturned]

I’m really hoping that Dan Turner does a hair episode on his YouTube channel sometime.

Yeah I will get that sorted. Need to do my what to wear at the crag video first though.

Interesting thread. For me I find a lot of news unrelatable these days, so doesn’t really inspire me.

Instagram wise, I don’t really mind poor quality photos, if it’s almost a diary of what people have done....  like 8a.nu/ukc logbook but picture form, that’s cool. Gets me psyched and gives me ideas of boulders/climbs I might like to try.

[user deactivated]

RIP climbing as a counterculture.

This is the point really, does a counter culture even have ‘news’. We’re drowning in inspiration where subversion is discouraged and shamed by the cultural dictators. I’d like to see a climbing version of not the nine o’clock news.

[user deactivated]

Ps Dan, can you do an episode where you dress down a bit please. Those yellow pants are triggering my migraines

[Yossarian]

I’m really hoping that Dan Turner does a hair episode on his YouTube channel sometime.

Yeah I will get that sorted. Need to do my what to wear at the crag video first though.

Brilliant stuff. Hopefully you’ll touch on the tricky issue of accessorising block mint / turquoise. And the suitability of crossover workwear.

[SamT]

This is the point really, does a counter culture even have ‘news’. We’re drowning in inspiration where subversion is discouraged and shamed by the cultural dictators. I’d like to see a climbing version of not the nine o’clock news.

Dig out and read the old Crags magazines, and zines like 'the thing' if you want the whole counter culture thing.  It used to be all about the craic, the piss take, the satire, in amongst the reports of daring do.

I rarely look at UKC, and if I do, I don't think I've ever really clicked on their news headlines things, unless linked to from here. (I read about the Jonny 8b slab thing on there).

[turnipturned]

Ps Dan, can you do an episode where you dress down a bit please. Those yellow pants are triggering my migraines

I can't remember the last time I owned yellow pants.... thankfully that phase passed relatively quickly.

I’m really hoping that Dan Turner does a hair episode on his YouTube channel sometime.

Yeah I will get that sorted. Need to do my what to wear at the crag video first though.

Brilliant stuff. Hopefully you’ll touch on the tricky issue of accessorising block mint / turquoise. And the suitability of crossover workwear.

I have to say.... Dickies work trousers are class, but heavily and surprisingly cold! However, I think with a Thrasher hoody and white socks.... I might be able to slip seamlessly in Dan's new documentary filmed on a sony VX1000 about life before insta 

[andy popp]

Dickies work trousers are class

This.

[Doylo]

Instas’s great for something to look at when you’re bored but thumbs down to excessive gimpiness and the accounts where every single post is about them. Is there nothing else in the world?

[Wood FT]

filmed on a sony VX1000 about life before insta 

Dream camera, big swooooooping cut-away. Yeah.

[Falling Down]

Good thread.

As a counterpoint - Mark Twight after getting shut of Gym Jones has been very smart about the media side of Non-Prophet.  A long podcast with some great guests and a printed ‘zine “Raze” with high quality contributors and a limited print run. 

[Yossarian]

Also, though I liked Shawn Raboutou’s film a lot, I thought his Supreme wardrobe was ever-so-slightly trying too hard. I’m wouldn’t be surprised if his next effort is styled by Virgil Abloh with some custom Off-White slippers, with STICKY RUBBER stencilled on the side.

On a related note, I once attended the Glenfiddich Food Awards wearing a pair of khaki Moon pants. Antony Worrall Thompson gave them the thumbs up. This was before his conviction for shoplifting, so presumably he was keeping an eye out for voluminous trousers into which he could stash stolen cheese. 

[user deactivated]

Ps Dan, can you do an episode where you dress down a bit please. Those yellow pants are triggering my migraines

I can't remember the last time I owned yellow pants.... thankfully that phase passed relatively quickly.

I’m really hoping that Dan Turner does a hair episode on his YouTube channel sometime.

Yeah I will get that sorted. Need to do my what to wear at the crag video first though.

Brilliant stuff. Hopefully you’ll touch on the tricky issue of accessorising block mint / turquoise. And the suitability of crossover workwear.

I have to say.... Dickies work trousers are class, but heavily and surprisingly cold! However, I think with a Thrasher hoody and white socks.... I might be able to slip seamlessly in Dan's new documentary filmed on a sony VX1000 about life before insta 

It must have been another climber. Many years ago Dave ‘kryptonite’ Simmonite wanted some photos of wharncliffe for climber magazine. So being a bit of a knob I put my best boots and socks on, rolled up my trouser legs and wore a big mushroom shaped helmet. I was actually a bit gutted when one of the photos ended up in the BMC guide.

On a different note that camera looks fun. Great look. I’m sure there’s a great up market Panasonic version with a lovely colour profile. Think aqua marine by Paul Higginson was filmed with it.

Just hit the end of an era in my life and pulled the trigger on my Vimeo account. Huh

[teestub]

As a counterpoint - Mark Twight after getting shut of Gym Jones has been very smart about the media side of Non-Prophet.  A long podcast with some great guests and a printed ‘zine “Raze” with high quality contributors and a limited print run.

Generally love the Non Prophet stuff and the long podcasts are great to get stuck into on long drives. Unfortunately I don't think Marks co-host Mr Blevins is quite as smart as he thinks he is, and some of his input can be quite grating.

The Raze zines are great and I'm looking forward to the book I just spent far too much money on!

[Nizza]

The project magazine (I think) have tried to balance this out with ad free - more in-depth articles and photo-essays.

ad-free ... not sure about that? It doesn't take many clicks on the site to stumble over various metrosexual advertorial stuff:

https://www.theprojectmagazine.com/life/2018/11/22/united-by-blue-bison-puffer
https://www.theprojectmagazine.com/life/2018/10/30/everlane-recycled-plastic-renew-collection
https://www.theprojectmagazine.com/life/2018/10/1/wayks-one-modular-backpack
https://www.theprojectmagazine.com/life/2018/5/5/topo-designs-x-fronteer
etc

Hey Habrich, I just want to nip this stupid shit in the bud. We're completely ad free, supported purely by our own pocket. Just because we run lifestyle content doesn't mean its paid for - you're obviously just not the audience for it. 

[teestub]

ad-free ... not sure about that? It doesn't take many clicks on the site to stumble over various metrosexual advertorial stuff:

I think the advertorial approach is way better than 10 animated banners on each page in terms of a user experience. You can avoid what you're not interested in by not clicking through, and you might actually see something you do like the look of.

Also don't think I've heard anyone use metrosexual in about a decade!

[Nizza]

Strong grumpy thread this. Good point from Cheque about Instagram though, which I also don't have. Same argument as Twitter (which I do); that what you see is almost entirely down to you. If someone is annoying you, you stop following them.

Re the Project, I've liked a few of their pieces (the Hard Grit one springs to mind) but a lot of it has also struck me as thinly disguised ego massaging masquerading as good writing. I have also heard stories about not paying their contributors which really ticks me off. No one should be working for free; if you can't afford to pay your staff the business shouldn't exist. If this has changed I stand corrected!

I just want to make sure that while you were hearing those stories you read our About section. The entire point of the model of the Project is it is a sustainable publishing model for the good of the community - everyone retains the rights to their own work, we don't monetize it and if we ever did contributors would benefit as we have set out. We run the mag in our spare time because we felt there was a need for a space for creative climbers. The content may not be for you, but that's ok - we're not for everyone. We've had a lot of messages from people who have taken up photography after being inspired by the mag, that's our motivation and audience.

[user deactivated]

Also don't think I've heard anyone use metrosexual in about a decade!

Get yer self to Chorlton mate

[tomtom]

Also, though I liked Shawn Raboutou’s film a lot, I thought his Supreme wardrobe was ever-so-slightly trying too hard. I’m wouldn’t be surprised if his next effort is styled by Virgil Abloh with some custom Off-White slippers, with STICKY RUBBER stencilled on the side.

On a related note, I once attended the Glenfiddich Food Awards wearing a pair of khaki Moon pants. Antony Worrall Thompson gave them the thumbs up. This was before his conviction for shoplifting, so presumably he was keeping an eye out for voluminous trousers into which he could stash stolen cheese.

😂😂. Gotta love UKB

[petejh]

Instas’s great for something to look at when you’re bored but thumbs down to excessive gimpiness and the accounts where every single post is about them. Is there nothing else in the world?

The quality of climbing meedja - news or articles - could be improved overnight if the rule was you could only talk about somebody else.
I think that's partly what makes instagram so forgettable and disposable. It's usually a person, trying to get attention, by showing pictures or vid of themselves - that isn't 'news' and it isn't interesting thought-out opinion. It's the modern equivalent of seeing someone's holiday postcard. You're getting someone's holiday postcard every single day if you want. The editorial voice, a different perspective or placing of events in some sort of context, is gone. Deciding what's worth talking about is gone. So those who can't help but talk about themselves have nothing to prevent them.

Most of the best climbing writing contains a large element of describing somebody else. Caff's most enjoyable writing isn't about Caff. Grimer's occasional articles paint pictures of other people he encounters.

Doylo's, Ricky's, Cheque's films aren't about themselves. The best films give an insight into other people, or the history of  climb, or the nature in which the action takes place - Ricky's films always contain interesting snippets of the wider context of the landscape and the flora/fauna surrounding the climbs, as well as other people.

Some self-referential films that shine do so because the character is interesting  - not a top wad android - and even then it's the style of film-making and flair that makes them stand out  - Issac Buckley's ones for e.g.

Recently had the dubious pleasure of watching Brit Rock, wouldn't usually bother but it seemed like a reasonable way to spend an evening with a friend. Seems some of the same old spraylords are still spraying their attention craving nonsense - for e.g. 'no new routeing going on in the UK' (except for our heroes of course)?! I think Iain Small and a fair few others might disagree. The Madagascar film I thought was hyperbolic self-obsessed eye-rolling guff - zero recognition of any other route on the face or the history behind other ascents. No context, no history to take focus away from themselves - that seems like the way of some self-obsessed climbing spraylords. It says something that I can't remember the name, grade, style of ascent, or any real detail of their instantly forgettable new route, which I'm sure is great quality and great fun but who really cares. Thought the shot of the main protagonist on his portaledge real-time instagraming about his trip to another 'pro climber' said it all really.
I sat there thinking most of those films aren't aimed at keen climbers anymore, they're aimed at people who want to watch another extreme sport that they'll probably never do. That market readily accepts all the sponsorship advertising as normal and they need the hyperbole to make things seem meaningful. That's the market that's paying for the spraylord's trips - a undiscerning audience begets mundane content.
Seemed to me a difference from how climbing films used to be. They might not have been any better 10-15 years ago, but they were aimed at a more discerning audience.

Thought the most interesting film was the portrait of Will Bosi, which gave a bit of insight into the person, the training and determination without him needing to say very much..

My 2 cents worth

[user deactivated]

Woah top rant Pete, particularly liked the spraylords bit. Brilliant. So how does Brit rock stand up against blocheads? 🤣

[Doylo]

I always prefer filming other people- same as with the old blog. Preferred writing about others news. With Insta I’m not too bothered about people posting about themselves. I do it sometimes and like to see what’s going on, but when it’s constant and the whole account is what I’ve climbed last it gets a bit dull (and weird)! But I’m not that bothered, it serves its purpose as something to look at on your lunch break or when resting when training.
Brit Rock thing was shite.

[user deactivated]

When is it ‘ok’ to film yourself then lads? I’m starting to get worried my feature length iPhone climbing selfie vid of mid grade grit routes my be a bit narcissistic.

[petejh]

Haha I knew you and maybe Turnip would wonder that after I posted that!

I like your vids Dan, (and other Dan) - not that I'm any arbiter. I think it's obvious you aren't making them for the sake of being seen and heard!

edit: I think your vids Dan often highlight an obscure hardish grit route and inspire people to seek them out / are useful for beta, and have some good tunes and a bit of soul about them. Other Dan's, I think are always genuinely dead enthusiastic about whatever the problem/venue and simply bouldering/training in general, and are again inspiring to go and seek out some of the lines. Neither come across as anything other than an enthusiastic climber sharing the love.

[Doylo]

It’s ok to film yourself anytime. Just more narcissist proof when you occasionally acknowledge the existence of other humans.
As for climbing news I only read articles about people climbing 9b if I’m really bored. I will jack off when Moony does Northern Lights though.

[spidermonkey09]

I just want to make sure that while you were hearing those stories you read our About section. The entire point of the model of the Project is it is a sustainable publishing model for the good of the community - everyone retains the rights to their own work, we don't monetize it and if we ever did contributors would benefit as we have set out. We run the mag in our spare time because we felt there was a need for a space for creative climbers. The content may not be for you, but that's ok - we're not for everyone. We've had a lot of messages from people who have taken up photography after being inspired by the mag, that's our motivation and audience.

I stand corrected! Should have informed myself before mouthing off; my bad.

[user deactivated]

Doylo you’re an obsessed man 😂. It’s clear that you only film other human beings when their failure makes you look good. And Pete cheers dude, it’s like Ken Wilson said ‘the rock is the star’

[user deactivated]

Hang on a minute, sorry Doylo that was supposed to read. It should be that any climbers should only film others. Not you mate. 😬 God I hate the internet

[Doylo]

Hang on a minute, sorry Doylo that was supposed to read. It should be that any climbers should only film others. Not you mate. 😬 God I hate the internet

 
I like getting footage and if got a load footage of a proj or something will edit it cos always have. But other people is always more fun.