[GraemeA]

Extra content for your Instagram feed by  the looks of it...

 

I really like it. It's definitely a different style to anything I've climbed on before. If Gogarth was a bouldering venue some of the problems would be good training for it. You'll have to check out the white/red in the cave to see what I mean. I think it's great training for real climbing outside.

My only issue is how hard the mats are. I hope they'll let you take your own mats in, though I can understand why that might not be allowed. 

Well stop falling off.

[Oldmanmatt]

That’s funny.
You can’t win Graeme. After six years of everyone complaining our mats were too soft (they were, but we had an unfortunate firsthand experience (elsewhere) of spinal compression injury, so we wanted to be safe etc), we finally laid new matting yesterday. It was ten minutes after opening them up, that we had a complaint that they were too hard...

[steveri]

There does seem to be a move towards harder mats. My local - Boulder Hut - is almost brand new and their guidance was to install fairly stiff mats. I don't know if it's old knees, a history of sprained ankles or just plain cowardice but I do tend to avoid high cruxes with no easy downclimb option. Maybe they'll soften up, maybe I'll harden up.

[jshaw]

They'll soften after a while. The mats at the Manchester Depot were rock hard when they first opened but they're fine now.

[r-man]

The mats at the Manchester Depot were rock hard when they first opened but they're fine now.

Most people I speak to disagree that they're fine now. It's a common complaint. And it's not limited to the Depot (though this is probably the worst). There are so many great new walls, but mat technology seems to have regressed (ie. the old boulder uk was amazing and springy and non hurty, and that was just mattresses beneath the surface). Surely custom-made mats can be designed so you don't feel walloped whenever you drop from the top? I wouldn't be surprised if this has long term implications for ankles/knees/backs.

[yetix]

Have to agree with Josh, depot manchester's mats are fine now in my opinion, I just assumed this was part of a new centre occuring

[r-man]

In general, I've noticed that people's opinions tend to reflect their age. Kids don't notice a thing, they just bounce. People in their twenties are mostly not too bothered. Thirties, some start to grumble (me!). Forties and up, it gets worse. I know some in their forties or older who don't go to indoor walls because the mats are too hard. (Some have wondered if they'd be allowed to bring their own bouldering mats!) To me, this suggests the technology could and should be improved. Especially as a) all the new mats are worse than the old skool mats in one of the first uk bouldering walls, and b) I get a softer landing with stacked bouldering mats outdoors than I do on indoor matting.

[SA Chris]

I'll not be tarred with that ageist brush. I'm nearly 50 and i can fall off any problem anywhere with full commitment and conviction.

[Oldmanmatt]

I think it’s just a tough call.

We originally went soft, even though we knew it increased the risk of twists and sprains etc. Because it does, significantly.
If you land with any lateral momentum, your feet stop dead, body carries on, twisting almost inevitable, etc.
Too hard, and landing on your backside or similar, can jar things that shouldn’t be jarred.

Over the years, firmer has proved less injurious, as I understand it.

I’ve just bought some bright yellow, mini gymnastic crash mats (114x80x10cm), for the cautious.
Bright yellow, because we let someone bring the spare 8’ x 4’ x 10” blue crash mat, from our training room, on Friday. It was colour matched to the new matting.
People tripped over it...

[joel182]

We originally went soft, even though we knew it increased the risk of twists and sprains etc. Because it does, significantly.
If you land with any lateral momentum, your feet stop dead, body carries on, twisting almost inevitable, etc.
Too hard, and landing on your backside or similar, can jar things that shouldn’t be jarred.

I'm a fan of harder mats for exactly this reason - I'm most concerned about off balance or spinning falls and find them better on harder mats (I'm in my mid twenties and pretty bouncy, so maybe that explains my opinion...)

[r-man]

Yeah, but that's an issue with the surface of the mat, it doesn't have to be hard all the way through.

Seems like the ideal solution would be a firm surface with something softer beneath (or actually bouncy, like the old buk mats).

[User deactivated]

The mats at the Depot Manc were brutal when it first opened and are still too hard for me. I'm not that old just like the mats to be soft enough that I don't feel like my knees and back take the brunt of the impact. Old BUK mats were great, not sure you get that sort of stuff signed off by whoever when opening a new place though.

[Offwidth]

Over the years, firmer has proved less injurious, as I understand it.

Are we comparing apples with oranges though? Not that this is a choice but I'd rather risk spraining my ankle a few times than risk injuring my spine.

I suspect hard mats make people modify their risk... down climb more ... more likely to ask for a spot. That would be a good thing in risk reduction. I certainly wouldn't consider jumping off at the top of the new Macclesfield facility.. very hard mats and high feeling.  I started bouldering outdoors with no mats and back then we were much more cautious and better practiced at spotting.

[shurt]

Over the years, firmer has proved less injurious, as I understand it.

Are we comparing apples with oranges though? Not that this is a choice but I'd rather risk spraining my ankle a few times than risk injuring my spine.

I suspect hard mats make people modify their risk... down climb more ... more likely to ask for a spot. That would be a good thing in risk reduction. I certainly wouldn't consider jumping off at the top of the new Macclesfield facility.. very hard mats and high feeling.  I started bouldering outdoors with no mats and back then we were much more cautious and better practiced at spotting.

Yep, bouldering above a damp beer towel certainly sharpened the fucking mind and the people you were going to fall on...

[spidermonkey09]

This is all coming across a bit 'back in the day' to me, unless I'm just young and bouncy. Can see the risk of soft mats for sprained ankles because the same principle applies with old bouldering mats; my friend hurt his ankle quite badly falling onto my old shit mat 

The Leeds Depot renewed their mats about 6 months ago and they were noticeably firmer than the old ones to start with but are now fine. I have sympathy with the wall owners because whatever they put in people will complain/get injured as its the nature of the beast; at least putting in slightly firmer ones to start with means they won't wear out as quick.

The concept of taking your own mats into a wall is comical; has this ever been allowed?!

[Bonjoy]

I suspect hard mats make people modify their risk... down climb more ... more likely to ask for a spot. That would be a good thing in risk reduction. I certainly wouldn't consider jumping off at the top of the new Macclesfield facility.. very hard mats and high feeling.  I started bouldering outdoors with no mats and back then we were much more cautious and better practiced at spotting.

Downclimbing the sort of problems that are in Unit E is not an option and there are no juggy filler in probs.

Personally I think the mat hardness in the main and mini  Works is spot on and after years of going there I've never had a problem with going over on my ankles or heard anyone else complain of it.
Doesn't seem like a hard call to me. if it isn't broke, don't try to fix it.
I suspect if any acute injury is avoided by using harder mats it would come at the cost of less easily attributable chronic damage.

[finbarrr]

Downclimbing the sort of problems that are in Unit E is not an option and there are no juggy filler in probs.

that's the thing.
i'm in my forties, one ankle that doesn't like taking jumps.. i can handle a few a session, so i would like to save the impacts for the hard stuff and down climb on jugs most of the time.
i definitely favour gyms with jugs (or specific down climb holds) everywhere.
or, even better, top out walls everywhere, like some gyms in france

[bigironhorse]

I suspect hard mats make people modify their risk... down climb more ... more likely to ask for a spot. That would be a good thing in risk reduction. I certainly wouldn't consider jumping off at the top of the new Macclesfield facility.. very hard mats and high feeling.  I started bouldering outdoors with no mats and back then we were much more cautious and better practiced at spotting.

Downclimbing the sort of problems that are in Unit E is not an option and there are no juggy filler in probs.

Personally I think the mat hardness in the main and mini  Works is spot on and after years of going there I've never had a problem with going over on my ankles or heard anyone else complain of it.
Doesn't seem like a hard call to me. if it isn't broke, don't try to fix it.
I suspect if any acute injury is avoided by using harder mats it would come at the cost of less easily attributable chronic damage.

Spot on, would agree that the mats in the main works are pretty much ideal. Have been to walls with much softer matting and found that fine too though. I'm surprised no one has mentioned the foundry, I think the mats there are too hard.

[SA Chris]

Yep, bouldering above a damp beer towel certainly sharpened the fucking mind and the people you were going to fall on...

Damp? Damp! Mine were bone dry! Luxury, etc.

[Oldmanmatt]

Over the years, firmer has proved less injurious, as I understand it.

Are we comparing apples with oranges though? Not that this is a choice but I'd rather risk spraining my ankle a few times than risk injuring my spine.

I suspect hard mats make people modify their risk... down climb more ... more likely to ask for a spot. That would be a good thing in risk reduction. I certainly wouldn't consider jumping off at the top of the new Macclesfield facility.. very hard mats and high feeling.  I started bouldering outdoors with no mats and back then we were much more cautious and better practiced at spotting.

Well, I’m quoting mat suppliers there, so...

We have finally opted for 70mm of High rigidity (not density) foam and carpet over 300mm of medium density.
Quite bouncy.
The top layer is, essentially, identical to an Olympic floor routine area, which is rigid but has high shock absorbency.
It’s a hell of a lot better than the soft stuff we had before (which was slightly more firm than traditional crash mats. A dual density version of, if you like). Our highest point is 4.5 mtrs over the mats and dropping from there is quite comfortable. I’m nearly 50, knackered knees and arthritic feet, so...

[Dexter]

I think from my experiences it changes how you climb/fall. Harder mats are less likely to sprain/twist when you land on your feet which the majority of people/times will be the case. When you fall totally out of control with your heel by your face though  you can will always want a softer mat but realistically how many times is that the case.

[bigironhorse]

In the hope of preserving my ankles, knees, back etc I have taken to always jumping off off axis when near the top of the wall. I.e. landing feet first but just collapsing on to the mat, makes you look like a bit of tit but beats ruining knees.

[Muenchener]

Downclimbing the sort of problems that are in Unit E is not an option and there are no juggy filler in probs.

A few walls over here have started putting dedicated downclimbing jugs on their comp walls.

[galpinos]

Downclimbing the sort of problems that are in Unit E is not an option and there are no juggy filler in probs.

A few walls over here have started putting dedicated downclimbing jugs on their comp walls.

The Manchester Depot does that sometimes. I don't get to the top enough for them to be much help though.....

[tomtom]

Downclimbing the sort of problems that are in Unit E is not an option and there are no juggy filler in probs.

A few walls over here have started putting dedicated downclimbing jugs on their comp walls.

The Manchester Depot does that sometimes. I don't get to the top enough for them to be much help though.....

The yellow ones are to help getting down from the green ones right? Btw - seen they’re open at 6am on weds now Galpinos?