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Eggcorns (Read 56462 times)

grimer

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#150 Re: Eggcorns
January 11, 2019, 12:31:56 pm
Here's one, The carrot and the stick.

This is taken to be a reward for doing what you are being told to do (the carrot) versus punishment for not doing it (the stick).

But, for one - a carrot is your reward? Wtf?

But I think this comes from an old cartoon thing. It is somebody sat on a donkey. He is holding a stick out in front of him and dangling from it is a carrot on a string, just out of reach of the donkey. The donkey goes forward, trying to get the carrot, but of course never reaches its desire.

Much funnier as an image, and way more powerful as a metaphor.

The carrot ON the stick.

cheque

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#151 Re: Eggcorns
January 11, 2019, 12:44:05 pm
But I think this comes from an old cartoon thing. It is somebody sat on a donkey. He is holding a stick out in front of him and dangling from it is a carrot on a string, just out of reach of the donkey. The donkey goes forward, trying to get the carrot, but of course never reaches its desire.

That's definitely the origin. I imagine that at some point someone came up with the quirky variation of carrot or stick (the humour of which depends on knowing the original meaning) and that for some reason took off so much that lots of people are unaware of the original in the same way that lots of people don't know how to spell "allowed" due to not getting the joke in the name of the band Girls Aloud or slipmat due to the DJ's name.

Or, climbing related, Brad Pit(t).

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#152 Re: Eggcorns
January 11, 2019, 01:10:06 pm
No, no!

The rider has both the carrot and the stick. Tempt with the carrot or beat with the stick. Hence “carrot or the stick” either way you have no choice / present them with no choice.

SamT

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#153 Re: Eggcorns
January 11, 2019, 01:12:00 pm
I'm with Matt on this one, the inference is usually that its best to tempt with a carrot, than beat with a stick, but either way, the donkey is going to pull the cart.

spidermonkey09

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#154 Re: Eggcorns
January 11, 2019, 01:19:37 pm
Another vote for Matt's interpretation. Although even that comes second to Tucker's interpretation...obviously NSFW!


grimer

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#155 Re: Eggcorns
January 11, 2019, 02:47:15 pm
I'd be tempted to say you are wrong. Carrot and/or the stick is a eggcorn.

Oldmanmatt

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#156 Re: Eggcorns
January 11, 2019, 04:06:54 pm
I'd be tempted to say you are wrong. Carrot and/or the stick is a eggcorn.
Wikipedia seems to think everyone is right, for a given value of right:

“Origin   

The earliest English-language references to the "carrot and stick" come from authors in the mid-1800s who in turn wrote in reference to a "caricature" or cartoon of the time that depicted a race between donkey riders, with the losing jockey using the strategy of beating his steed with "blackthorn twigs" to urge it forward, while the winner of the race sits in his saddle relaxing and holding the butt end of his baited stick.[2][3] In fact, in some oral traditions, turnips were used instead of carrots as the donkey's temptation.

Decades later, the device appeared in a letter written by Winston Churchill dated July 6, 1938, worded in such a way as to possibly bolster the "carrot or stick" side of later debates: Churchill writes, "Thus, by every device from the stick to the carrot, the emaciated Austrian donkey is made to pull the Nazi barrow up an ever-steepening hill."[4]

The Southern Hemisphere caught up in 1947 and 1948 amid Australian newspaper commentary about the need to stimulate productivity following World War II.[5][6]

The earliest uses of the idiom in widely available U.S. periodicals were in The Economist's December 11, 1948 issue and in a Daily Republic newspaper article that same year that discussed Russia's economy.[7”

So, the cartoon referenced the “carrot or stick”, the earliest literary references were “and stick”, but common usage is “or”?


Will Hunt

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#157 Re: Eggcorns
January 11, 2019, 04:46:50 pm
My understanding of the phrase is more aligned with Matt's. If you want to move a donkey (or change person's behaviour) you can use the threat of punishment (the stick) or offer an incentive (the carrot). Or, you can do both i.e. use the carrot and the stick. I've never thought of it as the carrot on the stick.

I think the way that the phrase is used makes it clear that that's the meaning. We never use "carrot and stick" to refer to offering someone an incentive to do something which they'll never actually get.

Falling Down

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#158 Re: Eggcorns
January 20, 2019, 03:33:47 pm
Don’t know if this one has been done yet - but this blew my mind a little bit just now.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/media/mind-your-language/2014/nov/18/mind-your-language-another-think

teestub

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#159 Re: Eggcorns
January 20, 2019, 03:55:24 pm
That’s interesting! Where does it stand in eggcorn terms when what is historically the incorrect phrase has now become far the most common? I’m sticking with Judas Priest 🤘

galpinos

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#160 Re: Eggcorns
January 21, 2019, 11:33:52 am
That’s interesting! Where does it stand in eggcorn terms when what is historically the incorrect phrase has now become far the most common? I’m sticking with Judas Priest 🤘

No idea, just stick it in the box with derring do?

Interesting sidebar on "all mouth and trousers" as my mum would say, or "all mouth and no trousers".
« Last Edit: January 21, 2019, 11:39:19 am by galpinos »

SA Chris

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#161 Re: Eggcorns
January 25, 2019, 05:46:21 pm
I assumed this was my queue to leave the conversation.

Will Hunt

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#162 Re: Eggcorns
January 25, 2019, 06:31:08 pm
You can drive off in an Arctic lorry.

mark20

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#163 Re: Eggcorns
January 26, 2019, 12:12:30 pm
The book stops here.

mrjonathanr

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#164 Re: Eggcorns
January 26, 2019, 02:00:30 pm
That’s interesting! Where does it stand in eggcorn terms when what is historically the incorrect phrase has now become far the most common? I’m sticking with Judas Priest 🤘

I quite liked JP as a teenager but not heard that one.

In fact never heard of ‘another thing coming’ . It’s semantic nonsense in the context of having to revise your thoughts which is what the phrase has always meant afaik.

SA Chris

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#165 Re: Eggcorns
February 07, 2019, 02:37:39 pm
https://www.sunnewsonline.com/financing-major-obstacle-refineries-rehabilitation-baru-nnpc-gmd/

Quote
The two carried out a thorough assessment of the set of the refineries, what needs to be done to the last bolt

SamT

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#166 Re: Eggcorns
February 08, 2019, 12:15:10 pm
You can drive off in an Arctic lorry.

I always thought it was Arctic as a kid, and that it applied to refrigerated lorries carrying chilled/frozen goods.

andy_e

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#167 Re: Eggcorns
February 08, 2019, 12:31:35 pm
Haha, I love it when there's an explanation for an eggcorn which is based in sound logic! Like someone explaining they thought it was damp squid because the calamari batter isn't very crispy.

SA Chris

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#168 Re: Eggcorns
February 08, 2019, 12:40:58 pm
OT, but I once met a lass who said her name was Judith. I asked her if her surname was Prietht. She didn't get it.

Oldmanmatt

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#169 Re: Eggcorns
February 08, 2019, 12:59:17 pm
I had one of those bizarre revelation moments, walking through the storm, on my way home from the school run.

“It’s all swings and roundabouts”. For some reason, I’d always seen it as a statement of duality. Good and bad. Swings, good, roundabouts, bad.
Suddenly dawned on me, at random, that both are negative, pointless, get you nowhere  and yet consume a great deal of effort.

Wow, so much darker than I’d grasped.

cheque

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#170 Re: Eggcorns
February 08, 2019, 02:21:19 pm
For some reason, I’d always seen it as a statement of duality. Good and bad. Swings, good, roundabouts, bad.
Suddenly dawned on me, at random, that both are negative, pointless, get you nowhere  and yet consume a great deal of effort.

You might be reading a bit much into that Matt. It's just a playground-themed version of "comparing apples to oranges" isn't it? Two things that are in the same category, different to each other but only in a subjective way.

tomtom

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#171 Re: Eggcorns
February 08, 2019, 03:48:28 pm
Some classic nursery rhymes have some dour themes though....

andy popp

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#172 Re: Eggcorns
February 08, 2019, 04:16:18 pm
For some reason, I’d always seen it as a statement of duality. Good and bad. Swings, good, roundabouts, bad.
Suddenly dawned on me, at random, that both are negative, pointless, get you nowhere  and yet consume a great deal of effort.

You might be reading a bit much into that Matt. It's just a playground-themed version of "comparing apples to oranges" isn't it? Two things that are in the same category, different to each other but only in a subjective way.

Isn't more that there's not much to chose between them in the end, like "six of one and half a dozen of the other"?

Oldmanmatt

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#173 Re: Eggcorns
February 08, 2019, 04:25:05 pm
I looked it up.

Originally, the phrase was “what you gain on the swings, you lose on the roundabouts”. So it’s origin was slightly less negative than “one step forward, two steps back”.
But not as positive, as “two steps forward, one step back”...
😜

andy popp

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#174 Re: Eggcorns
February 08, 2019, 04:32:08 pm
That's what I was aiming - it comes out the same in the end.

 

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