[Coops_13]

M: Tag rugby, won the game, good phys

T: Arch. Good session. Max hangs, 7 sec hang with 3 min rest. 8 sets pyramid from -22kg to -16kg to -22kg with double set at -16kg moving at 2kg increments. Fingers feeling good, could have gone heavier. A couple of sets of Ts, Ys and Is on the rings. Front lever holds, lock-off attempts. Back physio X3 then finished with two sets of antagonistic exercises - wrist and bicep curls, chest and shoulder press

W:

T: Arch. Good session. Max hangs, 7 sec hang with 3 min rest. 8 sets pyramid from -22kg to -14kg to -20kg at 2kg increments. PB of -14kg!. A couple of sets of Ts, Ys and Is on the rings. Front lever holds, lock-off attempts. Back physio X3 then finished with two sets of antagonistic exercises - wrist and bicep curls, chest and shoulder press

F:

S: Tor. Warmed up and eventually got Peverse Reverse 7A+/B. Tried Cave Problem and got my heel in the hold but you have to put so much force through the heel it started to hurt - felt like my bruised heel from Feb was flaring up… Finished off on a couple of Pinches Wall problems before heading to:
Smallfield Roof. Done Dancing Man before so did Smallfield Lip 7A which links Larger Lout into Dancing Man, not a bad link-up

S: Almscliff. Warmed up on Flying Arete and did Stallone's Stinking Badger 6C before trying the extension finish of Underhand. Didn't get on with it at all, couldn't summon the psyche to crimp hard enough to do the extension finish in isolation. Went up to DWR so mates could play on the classics, a couple of goes on the moves of DBS into DWR but feeling pretty knackered from the previous day. Did some 6C+ traverse of the back wall of DWR that appeared on UKC recently. Finished off by doing South Cave Traverse Reverse 7A+, campusing most of the way

Not sure I'm doing max hangs correctly, I'm basically using it as a pyramid as I'm scared of injury but not all of the hangs are maximal. Should I instead do something like two sets of "warm-up" weight and then maximal for six sets?

[Nibile]

W - rest. Few beer sin the evening.

Beer is neither a sin nor a crime.

[Nibile]

Perhaps people who understand training better than me can help me out- I'm gaining fitness in terms of being able to do more stuff before I get tired but still lagging quite far behind in terms of strength fitness. Basically whichever energy system it is that makes you out quickly of breath after doing a few pullups rather than steadily out of breath when running for ten minutes is what I need to improve. How do I do that?

Your question is extremely complex.
It could be anything, from the amount of general activity that you're doing, to simple recovery after your accident, to inadequate nutrition or warm up or sleep, to muscles not ready yet for strength training, etc.
Take it easy.

[shark]

Not sure I'm doing max hangs correctly, I'm basically using it as a pyramid as I'm scared of injury but not all of the hangs are maximal. Should I instead do something like two sets of "warm-up" weight and then maximal for six sets?

Given that you got a PB keep at it. Classically you would scale the pyramid like you are doing until fully recruited then do a few max hangs and stop but it’s all mainly guesswork.

[spidermonkey09]

did Stallone's Stinking Badger 6C

This is a way better name for the problem. Hopefully it will be an accidental misprint in the next guide...

[spidermonkey09]

 Perhaps people who understand training better than me can help me out- I'm gaining fitness in terms of being able to do more stuff before I get tired but still lagging quite far behind in terms of strength fitness. Basically whichever energy system it is that makes you out quickly of breath after doing a few pullups rather than steadily out of breath when running for ten minutes is what I need to improve. How do I do that?

Disclaimer; my knowledge on training is very much at a pub level and what has worked for me.

The reference to pull ups muddies the waters a bit for me here, but if I translated that into climbing I would deduce that you're powering out quickly; ie you do a few hard moves and dont have the guns to do any more, rather than feeling pumped. This suggests a weakness anaerobically so would have a look at doing some work on ancap and anpow. Have a look at the Barrows sport climbing doc (which is what I'm working off basically) and see if it ticks any boxes for you.

This is probably totally wrong so don't set too much store by it!

[tomtom]

Not sure I'm doing max hangs correctly, I'm basically using it as a pyramid as I'm scared of injury but not all of the hangs are maximal. Should I instead do something like two sets of "warm-up" weight and then maximal for six sets?

Given that you got a PB keep at it. Classically you would scale the pyramid like you are doing until fully recruited then do a few max hangs and stop but when I train its all mainly guesswork.

Fixed that for you Shark x

[Coops_13]

did Stallone's Stinking Badger 6C

This is a way better name for the problem. Hopefully it will be an accidental misprint in the next guide...

Oops! For some reason whenever I've seen the problem, I've always read Badger...

[tommytwotone]

did Stallone's Stinking Badger 6C

This is a way better name for the problem. Hopefully it will be an accidental misprint in the next guide...

Oops! For some reason whenever I've seen the problem, I've always read Badger...

I agree - probably the worst problem name at The Cliff in it's official guise.

[Murph]

Hi Ross,

I like to do my fingerboarding like this:
Warm up (easy hangs or, preferably, easy circuit)
Start the stopwatch and then do 10 second hangs on the minute marks. Yesterday’s session looked like this:
1:+16kgs
4:+24kgs
7:+32kgs
10:+40kgs
13:+40kgs
16:+16kgs (smaller hold)
19:+24kgs
22:+32kgs
25:+32kgs (8 seconds)

When I’m going ok the numbers are higher but the principle is the same.

I’ve not been injured doing it yet. Might be I put too much time into warm up hangs but when I try to take a shortcut in the warmup I just can’t hang as hard.

Like shark said it looks like you’re going well so be wary of messing it up. That said, I’d question the value of the other side of the pyramid - further effort after max effort is just eating into recovery. Usual caveats apply.

[GazM]

What size edges are you hanging Murph?
I've recently started trying max hangs for the first time and I'm not sure what the best balance is between smaller edge vs. adding more weight.
Intuitively, hanging lots of weight from relatively big holds (>20mm) seems less applicable to the things I'm training for, which generally involve moving between <20mm edges, but what do i know? Does beastly strength on bigger holds transfer better to pulling on small holds?

[shark]

What size edges are you hanging Murph?
I've recently started trying max hangs for the first time and I'm not sure what the best balance is between smaller edge vs. adding more weight.
Intuitively, hanging lots of weight from relatively big holds (>20mm) seems less applicable to the things I'm training for, which generally involve moving between <20mm edges, but what do i know? Does beastly strength on bigger holds transfer better to pulling on small holds?

Eva Lopez recommends alternating between a block of a few weeks of heavily weighted max hangs on a larger edge and then a block of unweighted or lower weighted hangs on a smaller edge.

[Murph]

I train on the small and 2nd smallest bm1k holds. Half crimp on the 2nd smallest and open drag on the smallest.

I’m not at all convinced that what I do is optimal though, but touch wood it hasn’t resulted in a finger injury and I’ve consistently been doing this inconsistently for a couple of years.

Bit of debate really about whether it’s useful at all or whether holds should be half crimped or not at all etc.

Eva Lopez did some research into the small edge or bigger edge with more weight comparison and IIRC I think she found that bigger with more weight had better benefits but I haven’t looked since I decided on this routine a while back. In fact from what I remember I think it might have been a case of training on a certain edge until a certain standard of added weight could be hung then moving to a smaller edge and resetting. Might look into this a bit more. I could do with jazzing up my routine as I’m in no hurry to tick anything in particular at the mo.

Shark - got a link? I’m interested in digging in a bit more.

[abarro81]

The Lopez research is pretty low quality - I wouldn't base much on it. I would tend to echo the Anderson brothers - do what's most applicable to what you're training for

[GazM]

Cheers all, as ever, there's no right answer!
If I ever climb my projects I'll let you know which method helped.

[shark]

Shark - got a link? I’m interested in digging in a bit more.

http://en-eva-lopez.blogspot.com/

[moose]

The Lopez research is pretty low quality - I wouldn't base much on it. I would tend to echo the Anderson brothers - do what's most applicable to what you're training for

Aye, it's not exactly pharmaceutical grade research.  Still, my own routine is based on her conclusions, with "big hold / big weights" the core of my finger-boarding (just the occasional phase of "small hold / little weight", for a change), mainly as I feel my performance then isn't so influenced by random factors like skin and conditions.

[tomtom]

Murph - is the first column number of reps??

[measles23]

Might be I put too much time into warm up hangs but when I try to take a shortcut in the warmup I just can’t hang as hard.

Looks reasonable to me - I do a very similar asymmetric pyramid with 4 to 5 warm up sets, usually just steadily increasing weight, then 1 to 3 max hang sets, then 3 to 5 “working” sets at about 80%
Nearly identical to my DL routine...

Been lazy and unfocused for a bit so should knuckle down to PC again..

Took time out over summer to try to heal a couple of befucked finger joints - injected both with triamcinolone, which was exquisitely painful but moderately effective.

Also bailed on trying to progress deadlift - I spent about a year religiously cycling but could not break plateau - I’ve come to terms with having lifted 230kg (3.33bw) cleanly twice on video, and that’s a pretty reasonable lifetime achievement.
I’m still lifting, but trying to see it as a secondary exercise to free up more energy for climbing..

Last few months I think I’ve reached a reasonable balance - lost a bunch of weight (72kg to 66.8kg), weekly wall sessions at Stoke AW going pretty well; have flashed V7, climbed V8 - getting back on the moonboard regularly and have just about acclimatised to it.
Occasional fingerboard, weighted pull-ups, DL, core exercises all as secondary as hoc exercises.

Been spending time down much beloved Blackwell Dale, esp the crag that dare not speak its name - did low left ovine and now working Mutton Bustin’, King of lambs and Floodgates depending on which is in best nick at any given time - connies variable at the mo, but very inspired but monkeyboy’s achievement on a filthy day (so much so have now bought myself a battery powered fan )

[Murph]

TT - it’s the minute on the clock

Shark - thanks for link, that would have been the first place I’d look

Alex - appreciate that take on Eva’s research. I’m glad to hear it tbh because she does make fingerboarding sound complicated.

Matt - good weight that. Half crimp all the way, yeah? I keep meaning to do it properly. Reckon that way getting strong lies?

[Coops_13]

Cheers guys, I think I've found a better method which includes a greater number of maximal hangs - think I was just scared of trying too hard. More info to come in next week's PC...

[tomtom]

TT - it’s the minute on the clock

Cheers - - makes sense now. Similar to how I did them (dont do them at the moment).

I found I was getting quite alot of achy pain by my PIP when doing the half crimp...

[Nutty]

Finger-boarding wise, I've just started doing an 'integrated strength' session based on the workouts in Climb Strong - Logical Progression book.

The workout is circuit-style where you do hangs in one position (e.g. crimp), then a strength exercise (e.g. deadlifts) followed by a mobility exercise (e.g. hip stretches). You then do hangs in another position (e.g. drag), followed by a different strength exercise and mobility exercise, then hangs in a third position (e.g. half-crimp) with another strength exercise and mobility exercise. Repeat this circuit 3+ times.

The idea of integrating the strength work and mobility exercises is to trigger hormonal release and for injury prevention.

The hangs are recommended to be either a 3-6-9 second ladder as described here https://www.climbstrong.com/hangboard-ladder-training-1/ or Chris Webb-Parsons-style hangs (assisted one-arm hangs in half-crimp at varying elbow angle).