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Moderately long, not hard at all, on solid rock, and ideally free. (Read 6136 times)

bubbles

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Beta for US road trip needed please.

I’m flying in LA on 10 November for a two week climbing trip with my wife.

We were thinking of going to Vegas to climb at Red Rocks initially.

It would be great to get some route recommendations for quality 4-10 pitch climbs in the HS to HVS range. Some shorter easier routes would be good too. Routes like Royal Arches which are predominantly easy with the odd point of aid sound good too.

Also has anyone done Epinephrine? A non sandbag UK grade of that would be handy too.

Also beta for accommodation in Vegas would be helpful. I’ve heard the campsite is pretty basic. We were thinking about staying in a casino/resort on the west of the city.

Would you stay in Red Rocks for the whole two week trip or would you go elsewhere?

Friends have recommended Castleton Tower and I’ve always fancied Ancient Art. How South Stack are these sort of things. Non sandbag UK grades would be much appreciated.

Also is J Tree worth visiting, it sounds very marmite from what I’ve heard. 

Thanks, Tom

duncan

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Tom, I thought you'd been to Red Rocks already? I've only spent a week there but Crimson Chrysalis (5.8 or HVS 4c) and Dream of Wild Turkeys (5.10a or E1/2) were both as good as the hype and Black Orpheus (5.10a HVS 5b - just the one move, otherwise mostly VS) was very enjoyable. I've not done Epinephrine but my sense is it'd be quite a big day out at the grades you're quoting. For longer VS/HVS routes it's hard to look past Red Rocks. You could easily spend two weeks here, the bureaucracy might start to grate a little with me. Perhaps plan for a week and see how you feel? No recommendations regarding accommodation, I was staying with a friend in Vegas. I have no direct knowledge of the camping but I've heard it described as "a bit ghetto".

First time I went to Joshua Tree, many decades ago, it was cold, I was a bit burnt-out, the locals were a little unwelcoming and I was rather put-off. I visited again ten or so years ago with low expectations and had a great time. The locals couldn't be more accommodating and the desert ambience was wonderful. It's nearly all single-pitch (Walk on the Wild Side, 5.7 but solid HVS, a notable exception) and there is masses to do at your grades. Gets busy around Thanksgiving (your last weekend) but that probably goes for all the places you're thinking about. More beta here. You might be thinking why bother fly to western USA for a warmer dryer Stanage though.

I've not climbed Castleton Tower but from close inspection it looks eminently solid. Ancient Art is fun and casual, a bit friable in a few places but well-bolted where it matters. Nothing like Mousetrap Zawn or Red Wall (the more off-piste aid routes at the Fisher Towers however...).  The Utah/Colorado desert is amazing and emphatically not just a warmer dryer Stanage. The fun starts at E1 and up though.

If you've not seen it already, this summary of West Coast climbing was slightly tongue-in-cheek but gives a sense of the relative strengths of the main venues. The whole thread is worth reading.




SA Chris

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For Red Rocks, We stayed at the Suncoast hotel and casino, which was more luxurious than we are used to to say the least, but is still pretty well priced midweek; hotel prices go through the roof on a weekend, so a good time to get out of town to J-Tree, Flagstaff, Grand Canyon or something for a couple of days. It's about 15 mins drive from the park entrance, I think only the red rocks resort is closer but it's very expensive.

Cat in the Hat is usually the first multipitch that people do there and it;s very good, apart from the scrappy, ledgy first pitch. Don't skip the ab station on the slab on the way down unless you want to learn to prussik.

SA Chris

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I personally loved J-Tree, it was my first stop on a long climbing trip so may have been biased, but the desert environment is beautiful, I hooked up with a partner easily by wandering round the campground, and had a great time there, doing everything from bouldering to some 2-3 pitch routes. It definitely fills up a bit on a weekend, but if you get there early enough on a Friday you will still get a free camping spot, or just get a cheap room in 29 Palms for a couple of night if you want to avoid carrying camping kit. 

Potash

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Things you might not have thought of.

Cochies Stronghold - Southern Arizona. I climbed "whoes line is it anyway" best low grade multipitch ever. Free camping in BLM land. No fees. Mega route. Normal car is fine.

Tahquitz - south of LA and really good climbing. I climbed "Who done it" a few years ago and it was a real classic. You can free wild camp at Black Mountain Bouldering area about twenty minuets away as well. Super classic. Maybe a super cheap wilderness pass required. Normal car can make it up to black mountain slowly.

The Needles - Sierra Westside. Climbed "Igor Unchained". It was really great. "Thin Ice" looked like a dream line. Again a super cool place to hang out. Free camping and no park fees. No 4wd required.

Whitney Porthole - Sierra Eastside. Low commitment huge granite walls. No permits or fees required. Free camping available in the Alabama Hills below. Pricey campsite up at the Porthole. Standard road.

JTree has got super busy in recent years. Camping in the park is first come first served. You might be ok turning up mid week. Forget turning up on a weekend. Free camping is available in the BLM dry lakebed outside the town of JTree. Expect it to feel dodgy.

Bishop Area - Cardinal Pinnacle might be too cold. Above bishop. You get to climb a good granite four pitch route and go bouldering in Bishop.

Canyonlands/arches/castleton Utah - lots of the good stuff requires a 4x4 but Castleton and the Fisher Towers do not. There are a few big things in Arches. Zenyatta Entrada 5.4 C2 looks good. Lots is hard and soft though!
Castleton south face is good rock and easy climbing. Ancient Art is very well protected and easily aidable on bolts. Good rock throughout.
Canyonlands is harder without a 4x4 but there is a foot approach to Monument Basin which gains access to lots of hard soft towers. I can provide a summary of the approach if required.

Learn about different types of public land and what you are aloud to do with each.

National Park. Expensive and restricted.
National Forrest - often camp anywhere
BLM land - camp anywhere free






Potash

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I'd not considered the weather too much in that reply. Might be too cold at a few places.

Should be ideal at Cochies Stronghold though.

SA Chris

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for a 2 week trip Cochise and back might be quite a detour? It's a full day drive from LV? We really liked the look of it, but realised it was almost a full day drive from Flagstaff. There is a great looking crag / mountain near Prescott, I'll need to check the name when i get home.

Potash

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Its about nine hours from LAX to Cochie. You could stop at JTree and Tahquitz on the way.

I'd have thought the bigger issue was the mileage on the hire car.

I suppose it depends entirely on what kind of trip you are after. I've done really slow trips and really hectic ones. Both are worthwhile. We did a two week trip from Los Angeles taking in JTree, Grand Canyon, Indian Creek, Castle Valley/Fisher Towers, Canyonlands (Cleopatras Chair out west), Arches, Red Rocks and the Mojave preserve.

Embrace the cruse control!

Coops_13

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Castleton Tower is a great day out, I did it 7 years ago with a guide while there on a family holiday. Really good fun, Kor-Ingalls route was all solid, not too difficult. HVS-ish (I did it in my early days of climbing when I didn't really know what HVS was...)

bubbles

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Thanks for all the replies so far folks.

Rather the spend a day driving to the dessert we might spend most of our time in Red Rocks and finish our trip with White Punks on Dope at the Needles and S Face of Charlotte Dome.

Anyone done these? Any beta or advice?

Thanks,

Tom

SA Chris

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Needles is a fair drive from RR, but the drive is beautiful. When i got there the road was still snowed in, so had to go elsewhere. You get close to a Giant Sequoia plantation on the way, worth a stop for a look.

I always liked to look of Charlotte Dome, but never made it. I think it's a longish approach, and you might need a permit? Might need to investigate I could be wrong.

Potash

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I looked at doing White Punks on Dope a couple of years ago but was unable to persuade my two sherpas to carry my stuff in for me. (dodgy knee) I worked out that you have to approach from the road below which does not have free camping on it though there are pay national forest sites.

The camping at the top is free and good.

T_B

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Thanks for all the replies so far folks.

Rather the spend a day driving to the dessert we might spend most of our time in Red Rocks and finish our trip with White Punks on Dope at the Needles and S Face of Charlotte Dome.

Anyone done these? Any beta or advice?

Thanks,

Tom

I've only been to the Needles in July. It's at 2500m and is typically windy. There's a good chance it will be baltic in November. J Tree is amazingly beautiful.

Johnny Brown

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Quote
You get close to a Giant Sequoia plantation on the way, worth a stop for a look.

Sounds shit, how old are they?

I haven't been, but I remember some friends joining us in the valley in early October having left the Needles because it was getting too cold.

SA Chris

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Johnny Brown

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 So not a plantation then. ;)

SA Chris

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Sorry, no not a plantation as such, just though it was a general term used in forestry. Seems not.

AndyR

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Thanks for all the replies so far folks.

Rather the spend a day driving to the dessert we might spend most of our time in Red Rocks and finish our trip with White Punks on Dope at the Needles and S Face of Charlotte Dome.

Anyone done these? Any beta or advice?

Thanks,

Tom
Have done South Face of Charlotte Dome - great route and worth seeking out. Approached from Sierra east side (think you leave 395 at Independence for trailhead at around 8’000ish ft). Loooong walk in, but scenery is amazing and camping spot is fantastic though quite tricky to find. Temps on route will prob be fine in Oct if normal weather pattern, but not a dead cert. I haven’t done the other approach from west side- the slog up to the start of the route looks like hard work...

duncan

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I haven't been, but I remember some friends joining us in the valley in early October having left the Needles because it was getting too cold.

I have been, in July, which had perfect temperatures but this was before global warming. It was always considered to have a similar season to Tuolumne or the other high Sierra crags. This (scroll down) suggests the climbing is pretty much done by late October.

One of the most sublime places I’ve climbed at and it baffles me I’ve not been there more than once.

Paul B

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Tom, I thought you'd been to Red Rocks already? I've only spent a week there but Crimson Chrysalis (5.8 or HVS 4c) and Dream of Wild Turkeys (5.10a or E1/2) were both as good as the hype and Black Orpheus (5.10a HVS 5b - just the one move, otherwise mostly VS) was very enjoyable. I've not done Epinephrine but my sense is it'd be quite a big day out at the grades you're quoting. For longer VS/HVS routes it's hard to look past Red Rocks. You could easily spend two weeks here, the bureaucracy might start to grate a little with me. Perhaps plan for a week and see how you feel? No recommendations regarding accommodation, I was staying with a friend in Vegas. I have no direct knowledge of the camping but I've heard it described as "a bit ghetto".

We went to Red Rocks about this time last year. With the various timings of when you're allowed in and out of the loop (including late passes) the available light is a real constraint (apart from Black Velvet Canyon). Black Velvet Canyon was pretty cold at times.

Epi - I'd avoid it based on the grades you quoted. We were walking in at first light and were something like 6th party on the wall. The first party had started at some ungodly hour and were having a 'mare. We had to bail after the chimneys as the delays had been so bad. It's quite common to find multiple parties ahead of you.

Frogland [5.8] - Truly brilliant climbing.
Unimpeachable Groping [5.10b] - past the first bolt this is a sport route. Some of the flakes feel a bit boomy. Perhaps it's a bit towards the upper end of your grade range but it's very escapable and we did it in the same day as Crimson Chrysalis
Ginger Cracks [5.9] - V. good and a good backup option if Crimson is busy. Note, you ab the line so get ready for company one way or another.
Black Orpheus
Wild Tukey etc.
Triassic Sands
Birdland
Dark Shadows
Cat in the Hat
Eagle Dance / Lev - I tracked the middle approach in the guide (and photographed it periodically). This is posted on SuperTopo. For some reason the guidebook states this is the best then doesn't attempt to describe it. If you went up here for anything it's not worth bivying, if you know where you're going it's completely fine to do with a late pass or park outside of the loop (N.B. the bureaucracy extends to that parking too as you're not allowed more than 24 hours).

There's a lot to go at but it isn't a quiet place and I struggled with the bureacracy and the business at times. The camping isn't that ghetto from my experience.



Needles - we climbed here in August and I remember the weather being fine.
              - White Punks on Dope. A brilliant day, just make sure you start in the correct place. There's a point at which you'll place your big cam and it's pretty clear you're not getting anything else for a fair while. I remember the descent requiring a bit of bush whacking (you don't have to approach from below).
Moab Region - the Kor Ingalls is good. Ancient Arts is novel (one tricky move low down then fine, if a little 'soft'). Fine Jade falls outside your range but has to be one of my favourite days of climbing ever. Primrose Dihedrals was probably my most enjoyable day of climbing to date. If you avoid the original start it fits within your grade range (you can aid the flake pitch if you don't like it).




Yosemite - grades are harder here than anywhere else I've climbed in the states. I had a really good day on Royal Arches (the view are amazing), likewise Middle Cathedral was another memorable day, and E. Buttress.

Zion - Iron Messiah? The Headache is at the shorter end of your requirements but is really worthwhile. Kolob Canyon offers a less stressful day if needed too.



Sierras - Cardinal Pinnacle is not far from Bishop and good if you're passing

With all of that said, I'm working to the grade conversion tables and I personally don't feel they're very accurate within the stated grade range. I'd expect for instance someone who's comfortable in the UK on HVS trad to be somewhat nervous looking up at something like Primrose Dihedrals (perhaps it's just me)!

I'm going to have to try very hard not to quit tomorrow at work after having just spent the last hour flicking through guides and photos!

bubbles

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Thanks for the reply.

Looking at the date on your pic of White Punks... you must have been there a week after I last went! We did most of the 5.9ish routes on the other domes, but didn’t venture over that way.

Any idea what aspect it gets?

Paul B

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I'm pretty sure it's South but you'll only be in the sun on the first and last pitch because of the shade of the corners. We had some incredibly close passes from fighter jets that day too.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=white+punks+on+dope+topo&oq=white+punks+on+dope+topo&aqs=chrome..69i57j33.8107j0j9&client=ms-android-motorola&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=lFCvvMkstVJGkM:

seankenny

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Needles is a fair drive from RR, but the drive is beautiful. When i got there the road was still snowed in, so had to go elsewhere.

Does anyone have any idea roughly when the climbing season at the Needles starts? Considering a visit in May... is it likely to be baltic?

bubbles

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I went in late August and it wasn't warm, especially in the shade.

Thanks for the advice everyone. We had a brilliant trip. Stayed in Red Rocks the whole time and was blown away by the quality of the climbing.

Crimson Crystals has got to be one of the best Hard VSs anywhere in the world.

SA Chris

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Eggcorn?

Was on our wishlist but never made it. Along with a zillion other routes.


 

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