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Another County LGP falls (at an easy grade?!) (Read 16502 times)

Wood FT

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Anyway, well done Dan and Dan's mates (god I bet there was some brilliant slagging going on at the crag, I'd have loved to have been there for that), and Franco, for the climbing inspiration, the efforts on sniffing glue and access behind the scenes, for being explorers and the passion.

Beer emoji style thing, you know the one I mean.

+1 to this. I’m living in the middle history of climbing, where’s my bolt wars?!

Franco, will you keep trying Sign of the Devil now or move on?

Doylo

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Wasn’t Andy’s Bowie a School beast who wasn’t as good outside ?

gme

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Wasn’t Andy’s Bowie a School beast who wasn’t as good outside ?

One of the two i was thinking about. 8A+ on the board, spanked by Marie rose amongst others in font.

monkoffunk

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spanked by Marie rose ... in font.

No shame in that.

 :whistle:

SA Chris

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Yeah it's a tough warm up

 :whistle:  :whistle:

macca7

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Is it me or do the two quotes below not really match up?

"I think going forward there needs to be a plan for what we do with routes like these, as they're not going to last in whatever style they're done. Personally, I don't think long-term sieges on most of the sandstone in Northumberland is really very ethical."

"But in the meantime, if I want to work H13s to death without ever bouldering font 7c+, surely that’s fine? If people want to repeat them and say they’re actually H11, that’s fine too."

As you say each to their own but make your mind up Franco

36chambers

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Franco, Grimer, since you're both here, can you two please get together for a Jam Crack podcast? I personally think it'll be pretty interesting.

Infact, you could even invite Mr Varian for a nice 3 person chat about whatever you like! Or at least have Dan on for a separate episode.

grimer

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Yes, 36, I've swiped Franco right a few times but we haven't co incided yet. And Dan would be brilliant too. I proposed doing one to Ned the other day, and Ned is almost Dan.

remus

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Yes, 36, I've swiped Franco right a few times but we haven't co incided yet. And Dan would be brilliant too. I proposed doing one to Ned the other day, and Ned is almost Dan.

Perhaps you could get Ned to channel Dan, clairvoyant style, then you'd be able to have a nice 3-way jam crack without those tricky logistics of getting lots of people together!

Franco

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Is it me or do the two quotes below not really match up?

"I think going forward there needs to be a plan for what we do with routes like these, as they're not going to last in whatever style they're done. Personally, I don't think long-term sieges on most of the sandstone in Northumberland is really very ethical."

"But in the meantime, if I want to work H13s to death without ever bouldering font 7c+, surely that’s fine? If people want to repeat them and say they’re actually H11, that’s fine too."

As you say each to their own but make your mind up Franco

Maybe should have made that clearer. I think it's absolutely fine sieging things to death, as long as you're not damaging the rock. Most of the crags in the county probably can't handle it. They probably can't handle any volume of climbing to be honest. This was the second longer-term thing I've tried and will probably be the last. I certainly don't think I'm going to be doing a 100 session fest like at Sandy again.

The NY Moors is way harder sandstone in the most part and most of the other crags in the UK are too. There are absolutely loads of projects left all over the shop that I think sieging is fine on. The stuff left on the Moors is really exciting. Way too hard for me, but there are some seriously outrageous lines left. I'd have thought someone strong like Alex could have a right good time getting on them. It would probably require a good bit of headpointing for some of them though.

grimer

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Oh, by the way Fiend, thanks for flagging this up in the first place, I had missed it.

carlisle slapper

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a reply to a few key points here:

Landings:

every developer i know has modified landings of some state. you wrote an article on UKC promoting modifying landings pretty much with anything, trees, blocks etc, this is the first time i've ever seen the issue in the public domain, and like gluin in my opinion its a practice best taught person to person rather than encouraged online, it should also be discussed widely but ideally in person between key developers to decide whats kosher and whats cheeky.

I dont feel great about moving 3 liftable blocks to solve the howlerhirst landing issue, however it took 20mins work between 3/4 of us and i'd be happy to move them back if the consensus is the landing is abhorrent, it is easily undone. I could also pop a few more rocks in the void and cover it in soil so that next season it looks 100% natural and vegetated (i've done this in the lakes).
Howlerhirst is the only landing i/we have needed to modify in the county by moving stones to build a landing up slightly. I also moved two fridge freezer sized blocks to make the 8B arete on betherles stone climbable. Please inspect that and tell me where they were originally as i'd be interested to know if you can tell. I know (from instagram) you did the moves on Daze of the weak (7B/+) last winter so have been to the boulder at least once after the work was done.

using stone to me is a way of blending landings into the landscape which ropes, nets and trees would never achieve. It also makes the landing "fair" in that it wont degrade over time and they tend to blend into the landscape rather than rot. Initial movements of stone can be unsightly sometimes but in the case of Howlerhirst i rolled the rocks over my pads when we put them down so barely made a scratch.

Earlier this year you (an access rep) promoted yourself climbing on a line in the lakes (https://www.instagram.com/p/BjG32P6DO7G/?taken-by=francocookson) in an active and very much banned quarry. You mentioned that the landing blocks needed manipulating in the active and very banned quarry publicy on instagram. Lots of locals were aware of the line but were waiting to see what the situation with burlington stone turns out to be in the next few years. once it was in the public domain people asked about it. I explained where it was to Alex and he did it in a session. Your congratulations were much appreciated, i believe you commented about hoping that we modified the landing under that to make it fair for people to climb on it (https://www.instagram.com/p/BjLEwkCDayT/?taken-by=alex_r_moore) (we did a small job, but nothing heavy handed as it'd almost certainly raise eyebrows, ambleside locals have been removed from the venue since for climbing there)

Also with regards to behaviour at crags i'd say carrying a landowners gate to put under an established problem and good landing(if a tiny bit boggy) is not really on (you mentioned in your bouldering article not to modify established problems landings). Considering this was one week after whitehouses got smashed to pieces it wasn't the best image to see in a video (i know it wasn't your video)

So whilst i appreciate the comments about the landing, and fully admit it is a slight compromise on ethics, I feel they are coming from a slightly hypocritical viewpoint from what i can make out, which makes me see them as more sour grapes/ tit for tat than geniune concern.


Grades:
I am not a trad climber. I have the utmost respect for my friends who excel in the medium. I have only downgraded the routes i've repeated because i feel they are out of line with the other climbs of Northumberland. I feel like if you graded I am you E7 7B as a joke amongst yourself only (mark certainly didn't know it was a "Joke") I would be careful when doing this as it looks like deliberate deception, cornwall has a tinge of that to it too.

Nothing lasts is a brilliant effort of boldness. I've never said a bad word about that route/line. My comments, in person were to try and encourage you to use the bomber pecker, and wire which are within reach (via a dropknee) without leaving the holds on the route. you took my advice on the top half and placed the gear on the E5 which is in the same crack as the pecker, so half the crack is off route and half is in from what i can see, yet both are within reach. To me that muddies the water/boldness of your effort, and in many ways i wish the gear wasn't there as you'd certainly have climbed a massively bold route with no caveats or eliminate rules then. At the time i'd just seen Caff lead a route on sky that scared the living shit out of me. He turned that route around in 3 days and tried to onsight it on his first day, he gave it E9. It would take me a lifetime of trad to learn the skills Caff has to have got up that route safely. In my head now i cant shake the fact that, that is E9 according to Caff. I've climbed with Ricky and Ryan enough to see similar things from them, Ricky gave rathlin wall E8 (repeated this year by Caff after some fair effort) i've watched him on his slab that he gave E9, if he could put runners in that i reckon he'd have smashed them in. Grades should relate country wide and i agree on that whole heartedly. Mountain routes and outcrop routes are different i agree, yet if E grades are used they should still relate at some point. In many ways i'm a charlatan here as with bouldering i have 18years of doing it as much as i can and i feel my grasp of the UK scene/grades is pretty good. Trad is much patchier in my knowledge but i can only base my grade comments on my experiences, as can you.

I will do my best to repeat as many of northumberlands trad routes in good style this winter as my wrist improves, including yours. I smashed my radius in 4 places march and had to have my schaphoid and radius wired back together so i'm not exactly on form. In the last few weeks i've onsighted and ground upped a number of northumberlands e5-e7s and it's been great fun, yet risky. It'd be lovely to see yourself joining in on the repeats front, if there is any coldness in the County scene i'd say this is its origins. especially on Andy and Malcolms additions which share very similar styles to your own routes. As GME said, The Young ground up would be a truly outstanding effort, and one people would love to see as a sign of progress, i wouldn't blame anyone from giving the top a look on Ab on that. the darkside would be a less commiting warm up problem.

Keep doing what you do with the projects, the raw enthusiasm and drive is really inspiring and it's got us off our arses (albeit mostly because i broke my wrist for myself, otherwise i'd be bouldering). I'd certainly, and would never try and discourage you from trying any projects as i believe the rock is anyones to enjoy. Just don't expect not to get mentioned if you're using Resin and seige tactics on a line, whilst constantly promoting it online. Especially when its something people can do as a highball in a few sessions/ under 10 tries. Giving routes grades as a joke makes a joke of climbing and other peoples efforts please don't make it a habit, or make it more obvious if it is a joke. When i onsight soloed peak technique the other day (with 5 big pads) i found it incredibly commiting and scary, i had to downwards rockover 4 moves after setting off on the wrong set of smears. If you were to have a pop at that or savage slab (im not suggesting you do) and nip back to I am you, you might see why i chose the terminology i did.

Franco

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All the examples you give are very different to Howlerhirst. Your landing is more than 3 rocks.

Don't have a problem with the rest of what you say. We'll see what repeat ascentionist think of Nothing Lasts. Good luck with anything you choose to get on. Let me know if you're ever short on a belay - I mean that genuinely.

danm

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Probably needs its own thread, but if Steve, Dan and Jon think it worthwhile, I'd be happy to help put together what we know about hold stabilisation with glue. My memory is that we didn't get an answer from the SS dudes and things just kind of petered out. I'll have a search through our files and see what we've got, I'll PM you guys with a summary and see what you think of it. The bit about best learning from someone else is a good one, but have you guys actually got time to mentor others? How would you feel about getting all you existing experienced hold repairers together with any fresh blood that wanted to learn the ropes in a workshop style thing?

shark

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Probably needs its own thread, but if Steve, Dan and Jon think it worthwhile, I'd be happy to help put together what we know about hold stabilisation with glue.

Hi Dan,

Here's one I started earlier ;-)

Be great if you can add to it.

Steve pm'ed to say he emailed info but I don't think it ever reached me - can you have a quick trawl through the emails and see if you got it.

Good luck getting anything out of the SE crew.  ::)

 

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