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Another County LGP falls (at an easy grade?!) (Read 16494 times)

Fiend

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Another County LGP falls (at an easy grade?!)
September 26, 2018, 10:24:16 am
Alex Moore, recently in the headlines for amusingly puncturing some UKC "Franco repeats Mark Edwards E10 slab in the rain" hyperbole with a swift downgrade to E7 (which curiously Franco was reluctant to do whilst collecting his column inches) has also done some serious LGPing with the beautiful overhanging pocketed wall right of Angels Fear To Tread at Howlerhirst to produce Sign Of The Devil. If you've seen this in the flesh you'll know how inspiring it is and also how it quite rightly justified at least 7-8 pads to make it a highball 7C+ ***

I have searched for non-UKC links about this with no success, so whatever:



https://ukc2.com/i/317380.jpg?v=1886

All mentioned as part of a day highballing at Bowden and very wisely and openly not claiming any big E-grades.

SA Chris

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Looks amazing.

Will Hunt

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Somebody was talking about this with me and referred to the bloke as "that guy who's been following Franco around"  :lol:

If anybody has looked at Franco's social media in the past few months they will have seen that he was trying this. I have to say, if you're going to draw attention to a project before it's done, you can't complain when someone does it before you (not that Franco has complained)!

I recently asked on Facebook for suggestions for off the beaten-track bouldering crags that were toddler friendly. Dave Warbs suggested Spittal, Franco suggested Howlerhirst. I can only hope they never reproduce!

(Also, since when was very high 7C+ an easy grade?)

jwi

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Looks absolutely boss, (and I could not fall off that and climb again the same month).

jwi

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(Also, since when was very high 7C+ an easy grade?)
Easy compared to Living Large I assume. If this was E9, Living Large would be eh... E11?

36chambers

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(Also, since when was very high 7C+ an easy grade?)

Since Footwork managed one...

cheque

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Looks absolutely boss, (and I could not fall off that and climb again the same month).

 :agree:

Will Hunt

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(Also, since when was very high 7C+ an easy grade?)

Since Footwork managed one...

Stu's Roof is not a highball, ND...

Yes, I suppose it's easy in the grand scheme of climbing, but the thread title expresses shock which isn't really warranted. Howlerhirst is not a world renowned venue descended upon by the world's wads every year. Howlerhirst is a local crag, for local people. LGPs at crags like this regularly go at this sort of grade and are still generally regarded as hard within their own scene (note that the Back Bowden stuff warranted a news article, despite being "easy" and above perfect landings).

teestub

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(Also, since when was very high 7C+ an easy grade?)
Easy compared to Living Large I assume. If this was E9, Living Large would be eh... E11?

 :lol:

Entry level grade into intermediate bouldering difficulty these days Will!

This does look totally amazing, and does he actually have his little finger in one mono and first finger in another, as per the Beastmaker grip page from a decade ago?!

Fiend

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#cooldiscussionbro

There's been people putting up 8A-B boulder problems and E9 routes in The County for decades and Howlerhirst while esoteric ain't exactly some grubby Unknownstones chosshole, this line is really obvious. I was chatting to Dan V about this  earlier this year, he hadn't done it yet so given it's fallen at slightly sub- cutting edge, I think a title mildly highlighting this (with a question mark) is okay.

Will Hunt

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I concede my position. I'd forgotten that the Beastmaker stalked those moors. Surprised he hadn't done this one.

teestub

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(note that the Back Bowden stuff warranted a news article, despite being "easy" and above perfect landings).

Note that the 'Back Bowden stuff' is also very high and was climbed ground up, which makes it more noteworthy (IMO)

Steve Crowe

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I am very impressed by this. I tried that wall after I climbed Dave Pegg’s route Where Angels Fear to Tread. I could do most of the moves but the landing is appalling so I was relieved that I couldn’t quite do all the moves. There is no gear options, you need to go with a lot of friends, and their mats.

gme

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This is an amazing line. It was well known about long before Franco started trying it. Steve Crowe tried it years ago i think.
It was one i was surprised Dan hadn't cleared up.

Grade wise i like the way things are going with this kind of route as i think it gives you a much better idea of how hard it is. The E grade just does not work at may crags in the county these days. Guess with pads these things are like the old school E5 6cs were but with a harder tech grade. I also think pads and the use of them will just keep getting better so font grades make more sense.

Great to see that stuff is now getting done ground up like it used to be in the county, some of my best climbing memories are sketching up stuff ground up and the odd thing i put a rope down fade into insignificance. Just wish i had pads back in the day as loads more would have been done.

gme

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Steve beat me to it by seconds.

carlisle slapper

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I first top roped this line when i was 17 on my first visit to the crag just before my A levels, taking in on the gri gri between moves. I've been back 3 times (whilst developing nearby boulders) in 16years since and did it first try on a rope every time. The only real "challenge" of this wall has been logistics, when i was 17 i had no idea how to pad it out, yet it is a short hard problem that didn't seem worth a foot slip without padding the landing. until recent years my interest has nearly always been on harder lines without mega dodgy landings as they were more enticing and were out there in the county, this was a "rainy day" project that in the last few years i knew just needed a load of pads. In actual fact it needed way less than i originally thought (we used 6 for the landing and 2 small ones for spotter shields) as we've got fairly good at making landings nowadays so Alex, Tim, Mark and I just wobbled a few rocks around to make a stable base so it can be tackled with 6 pads, when you look at how many are used in bishop or that handsome Will Birkett use it's not many.

After seeing the Franco seige engine moving in (via traversing in off another route) I thought it'd be a real shame to see it potentially given a kangaroo grade like everything else I've climbed in the county of Mr Cooksons so far - I dont think Franco is doing it 100% on purpose, he just has no current drive in repeating routes above E7 or font 7C which would place his efforts in context in northumberland. As just one example i did an e7 7b "i am You" of francos 2 months after smashing my wrist to pieces first try after cleaning it on an Ab, i'm not sure how font 6C+ is supposed to be english 7B, but it creates a right faff regrading them. Anyhow I encouraged Alex and Tim to get on it as it's a fantastic line and one of the best climbs of its grade in the UK they deserved to do it as much as anyone and i thought they'd both be more than capable, they both top roped it on their second session (first session was very warm) and Alex did it first try on his third session after a brief toprope, So session 2 topropes it, session 3 we bring pads and he does it, mega effort.

 i feel in the style Alex, (and soon Tim) did it in they gave the rock a fighting chance. And whilst moving rocks for a landing is still a bit of a grey area, its one i'd defend as part of bouldering nowadays. it will allow the line to be tackled in good style by all repeaters should they wish, hopefully allowing a ground up team to try it in future too. Whether or not its better to do that rather than artificially using Resin to reinforce holds and gear placements to ensure safety (ruining the feel of the holds) and spending 20+ 50+ 100+ sessions on a toprope and some massive H/E grade for an 8m climb is again open to debate but personally i feel the highball approach worked well in this case and it gives future climbers a good sense of whats involved and the safest way to approach the challenge for those with the ability, which is surely the whole point of accurate grading.

It's certainly no harder than 7C+ and isn't desperate for that, it is super classy, each move is tricky and the crux is near the top but the thought of doing the yorkshireman sit up there or honeycomb wall are much more harrowing. It is definitely one of the best climbs of its type in the UK and really unique in its pocketed nature. There isn't anything else of its pocketed style in the county. There are a few hard >font 8A highballs still to go in the county but this was definitely the best known of the projects from the 90's.

Northumberland has the vast majority of climbs established and climbable in this style, and whilst 7C+ might not seem cutting edge there is barely anyone ground upping things above 7m above 7C+. In fact worldwide there aren't loads of instances of >7m highballs being ground upped (where the crux is high), so this still presents a massive challenge to future generations if they fancy it. same goes for things like Mr Blobby 8A+, Hobbie Noble 8B, The prow 8A (i gave this 1 abseil before doing it), Empty the bones of you 8A/+, the young 7C+ (I abbed the top). All are still to see ground ups (or even repeats)

We've got a decent team operating out of Eden Rock at the minute so hopefully we can tackle more projects and repeats in decent style, its certainly much easier to have a good team trying things and its becoming more obviously the way for going to the bottom of the bigger boulders.

Alex actually said Academia was low E6 (or font 7a) if you read his comments, he was down for a wedding and nipped there on his tod after it.

Will Hunt

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 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Will Hunt

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kangaroo grade

If nothing else, this gives Franco his next route name: Kangaroo Court (H9 7c), surely?

webbo

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 i feel in the style Alex, (and soon Tim) did it in they gave the rock a fighting chance. And whilst moving rocks for a landing is still a bit of a grey area, its one i'd defend as part of bouldering nowadays. it will allow the line to be tackled in good style by all repeaters should they wish, hopefully allowing a ground up team to try it in future too. Whether or not its better to do that rather than artificially using Resin to reinforce holds and gear placements to ensure safety (ruining the feel of the holds) and spending 20+ 50+ 100+ sessions on a toprope and some massive H/E grade for an 8m climb is again open to debate but personally i feel the highball approach worked well in this case and it gives future climbers a good sense of whats involved and the safest way to approach the challenge for those with the ability, which is surely the whole point of accurate grading.

Is this saying that someone is using resin to make gear placements more secure.

Mark Lloyd

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kangaroo grade

If nothing else, this gives Franco his next route name: Kangaroo Court (H9 7c), surely?

Sounds like Franco is a bit of a Wallaby

Johnny Brown

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Quote
Alex actually said Academia was low E6 (or font 7a)

Well that starts to explain where the original E4 6b grade came from.

Andy F

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From Carlisle Slapper

"I thought it'd be a real shame to see it potentially given a kangaroo grade like everything else I've climbed in the county of Mr Cooksons so far - I dont think Franco is doing it 100% on purpose, he just has no current drive in repeating routes above E7 or font 7C which would place his efforts in context in northumberland. As just one example i did an e7 7b "i am You" of francos 2 months after smashing my wrist to pieces first try after cleaning it on an Ab, i'm not sure how font 6C+ is supposed to be english 7B, but it creates a right faff regrading them"
 :whistle: :worms:

andy popp

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Quote
Alex actually said Academia was low E6 (or font 7a)

Well that starts to explain where the original E4 6b grade came from.

Where did the E10 ever come from?

SA Chris

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Mark Edwards' original grade?

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/ukc/academia_e10_repeated_by_franco_cookson-691321

Read forum posts from 28 August onwards if you have the energy.

jwi

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I'm quite confused aren't E grades as wide as the full french lettergrade? E7 = 8a, E8 = 8b, E9 = 8c etc for safe routes. Disagreeing 3 full grades should not be possible. No one would mistake a 8a or 8a+ for 8c or an 8c+!

 

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