[Yossarian]

Wow - I’m the same height and can’t imagine dropping to much below 78/80kg... (11st4 is 71.5kg!)

I’ve lost around 17kg this year and have managed to make quite decent strength gains (both beef and fingers) over the same period. However, based on all the comments here i’m now looking forward to getting down to my target and then seeing if gains after that come quicker.

Earlier in the year I was experiencing quite a lot of residual pain in my forearms after prolonged bouldering sessions, exacerbated by any board or campus stuff. During the last phase of shifting weight - from 95 to 87-88kg - that pain disappeared entirely.

I was recently trying to dig up some previous threads about weight loss (and weight in general) vs performance. It’s quite heartening to hear about taller / heavier wads doing v hard stuff (like the 90kg chap mentioned recently) but it’s fairly obvious that the finger strength required to operate at that level and weight either came easily or over a long period, and most taller climbers would be better served by slimming down a bit.

[tomtom]

My legs have been described as toothpicks / knots on cotton before.. :D

[SA Chris]

I'm finding running is keeping the fat off, but a bit of muscle on, but on the whole a positive benefit.

[moose]

My legs have been described as toothpicks / knots on cotton before.. :D

I'm keeping clear of this discussion (for reasons abundantly clear to anyone with the misfortune to see me!).

[powderpuff]

Presumably you are sequencing things so you are carbed up before climbing/training and eating after with protein for recovery.

That said I’ve had a several successive weeks of gradual weight lot and absolute performance seems ok but I still felt run generally run down and have put a couple of lbs back on and feel more energetic for it. I’m treating this as a short respite and will try to lose those pounds again - maybe worth trying that for you?

I have my biggest meal at tea time (typically ~1,000 calories all protein and carbs) before climbing/training on an evening. I don't tend to eat after climbing, but haven't the old theories of 'needing protein every X hours to prevent going catabolic' and 'only being able to take in X amount of protein per sitting' been debunked? The last I read on it led me to believe that a large protein meal will take a substantial amount of time to digest and so despite not eating after finishing climbing/training i'd still be taking in protein from the previous meal. Maybe this is wrong.

My advice would be to eat your big carb filled meal 7 hours before training,so if you train in the evening carb up at lunch. Also It seems a mistake to me, not to eat after your evening session as this will hinder your recovery.

I'll give this a try

I feel it works for me, hopfully you find the same, best of luck😊

[lagerstarfish]

only once have I lost weight and made no progress - that was when I had pneumonia and lost a couple of stone

I then had pleurisy (and continuing bad cough) for 6 months and was too weak to do anything whilst putting on the lost weight and so remained a bit shit at doing things

at that point I caught chicken pox (age 34) which further messed up my lungs, but didn't cause either weight or climbing performance loss

every other time I have lost weight through illness or poor life choices, I have increased my climbing enjoyment

[Oldmanmatt]

only once have I lost weight and made no progress - that was when I had pneumonia and lost a couple of stone

I then had pleurisy (and continuing bad cough) for 6 months and was too weak to do anything whilst putting on the lost weight and so remained a bit shit at doing things

at that point I caught chicken pox (age 34) which further messed up my lungs, but didn't cause either weight or climbing performance loss

every other time I have lost weight through illness or poor life choices, I have increased my climbing enjoyment

Remind me to never get on an airplane with you.

[Sasquatch]

I know BMI is a poor measure for most things, but I do think that if you have a bmi over 25, then losing weight is almost always bound to help you.  And for longer sport routes, that is probably more like 23.  I'd guess if its under 19-20, then gaining weight will likely help your bouldering.  There will always be outliers, but that's also a pretty broad range.  Inside of those ranges things become trickier to manage. 

[tomtom]

only once have I lost weight and made no progress - that was when I had pneumonia and lost a couple of stone

I then had pleurisy (and continuing bad cough) for 6 months and was too weak to do anything whilst putting on the lost weight and so remained a bit shit at doing things

at that point I caught chicken pox (age 34) which further messed up my lungs, but didn't cause either weight or climbing performance loss

every other time I have lost weight through illness or poor life choices, I have increased my climbing enjoyment

Remind me to never get on an airplane with you.

This is all part of a classic Lagers hustling smokescreen. Its part of his Olympic build up - a 2-3 year campaign of mis-information about his health and climbing ability, then BOOM - he’ll suddenly be on the UK team (sorry TeamGB) and leaving Ondra in his speed climbing dust.

[jwi]

I know BMI is a poor measure for most things, but I do think that if you have a bmi over 25, then losing weight is almost always bound to help you.  And for longer sport routes, that is probably more like 23.  I'd guess if its under 19-20, then gaining weight will likely help your bouldering.  There will always be outliers, but that's also a pretty broad range.  Inside of those ranges things become trickier to manage.

Assuming a uniform level of about 10-15% body fat I pretty much agree with these rules of thumb for fully grown men. For men under 21 and women I think the ranges are different.

[User deactivated.]

I know BMI is a poor measure for most things, but I do think that if you have a bmi over 25, then losing weight is almost always bound to help you.  And for longer sport routes, that is probably more like 23.  I'd guess if its under 19-20, then gaining weight will likely help your bouldering.  There will always be outliers, but that's also a pretty broad range.  Inside of those ranges things become trickier to manage.

At my height/age the difference between a BMI of 20 and 25 is about 3 stone, which is obviously huge. At BMI 23.4 right now I could lose a stone and not even be on the lower end of 'normal range'. Of course this doesn't account for excess muscle mass.

[SA Chris]

Sod BMI, use a mirror and common sense.

I can tell when I'm straying back into fatfuck category just by looking.

[T_B]

If you've only been climbing for 3.5 years there's loads to work on to improve without focussing on losing weight.

I'm at the heavier end of things for a climber but have climbed Font 8a, F8b at 85Kg/188cm. Historically I've 'cut' a kilo or so before my best performances but equally I was 1Kg heavier than average when I had my best run of bouldering.

Check out Dawid Skoczylas who is BIG and continues to operate at Font 8b+ level combining masses of power as well as finger strength.

Beware outliers and those so fanatical that they risk their overall health for climbing performance. Also people who wear knee pads on both legs.

[spidermonkey09]

John Dunne is the other extreme outlier!

[Oldmanmatt]

Sod BMI, use a mirror and common sense.

I can tell when I'm straying back into fatfuck category just by looking.

I don’t even need to look.
Just buttoning up my trousers in the morning is enough.

[dunnyg]

Maybe they shrank in the wash?

[tomtom]

Dawid didn’t strike me as big when I’ve met him...

[Oldmanmatt]

Maybe they shrank in the wash?

YES! That’s exactly what I said.

As she laughed from the bed.

Laughed...


And,

Laughed.

[Oldmanmatt]

Dawid didn’t strike me as big when I’ve met him...

Ooooooh! I say, Matron.

[Yossarian]

I'm at the heavier end of things for a climber but have climbed Font 8a, F8b at 85Kg/188cm. Historically I've 'cut' a kilo or so before my best performances but equally I was 1Kg heavier than average when I had my best run of bouldering.

This is music to my ears...

[Bradders]

haven't the old theories of 'needing protein every X hours to prevent going catabolic' and 'only being able to take in X amount of protein per sitting' been debunked? The last I read on it led me to believe that a large protein meal will take a substantial amount of time to digest and so despite not eating after finishing climbing/training i'd still be taking in protein from the previous meal. Maybe this is wrong.

Others have touched on this already, but that's definitely not my understanding which is that your protein intake should be spread throughout the day in 20-30g amounts.

I think an important distinction needs to be drawn between dieting to lose weight and dieting for optimum performance. These are very different things. Whilst meal timing when losing weight might not be very important relatively (to, for example the amount of calories being consumed) it's much more important when trying to recover from a climbing or training session and ideally you should be aiming for a protein and carbohydrate rich meal within about an hour of finishing.

Of course, if you can't manage that it's not the end of the world.

This study might also be of interest:

https://www.trainingbeta.com/beast-fingers-optimizing-muscular-strength-to-weight-ratios-in-rock-climbing/

I would also echo what others have said about prioritising other things over trying to lose weight. I did all sorts of weird and wonderful things with my diet within the first three years of my climbing, thinking I might be able to help nudge improvement along. The only thing that helped was improving the quality of the foods I was eating and making sure to get a meal in soon after climbing.

[User deactivated.]

haven't the old theories of 'needing protein every X hours to prevent going catabolic' and 'only being able to take in X amount of protein per sitting' been debunked? The last I read on it led me to believe that a large protein meal will take a substantial amount of time to digest and so despite not eating after finishing climbing/training i'd still be taking in protein from the previous meal. Maybe this is wrong.

Others have touched on this already, but that's definitely not my understanding which is that your protein intake should be spread throughout the day in 20-30g amounts.

I think an important distinction needs to be drawn between dieting to lose weight and dieting for optimum performance. These are very different things. Whilst meal timing when losing weight might not be very important relatively (to, for example the amount of calories being consumed) it's much more important when trying to recover from a climbing or training session and ideally you should be aiming for a protein and carbohydrate rich meal within about an hour of finishing.

Of course, if you can't manage that it's not the end of the world.

This study might also be of interest:

https://www.trainingbeta.com/beast-fingers-optimizing-muscular-strength-to-weight-ratios-in-rock-climbing/

I would also echo what others have said about prioritising other things over trying to lose weight. I did all sorts of weird and wonderful things with my diet within the first three years of my climbing, thinking I might be able to help nudge improvement along. The only thing that helped was improving the quality of the foods I was eating and making sure to get a meal in soon after climbing.

I've begun timing my meals around climbing to see what difference that makes.

Having thought about it further it seems to only be my finger strength that diminishes when I diet. I don't notice this drop off in larger muscles - even in terms of absolute strength I.e. not just bodyweight exercises.

Before climbing I never had problems gaining strength (260kg deadlift, 140kg bench press), it just seems to be fingers, which to me highlights that it's probably more of a training issue in that I'm doing something wrong!

I use the half crimp for hangboard training but I do realise that I massively over rely on full crimping while climbing to the point of it being about double as strong as any other grip. Perhaps I should ban myself from the full crimp for a while.

[Oldmanmatt]

http://www.sportsnutritionworkshop.com/files/9.spnt.PDF

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/ab85/b594b458874725fdbe76996fd5a2211d8a7f.pdf

And...

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/52/6/376.full.pdf

Upshot?
Timing and quantity are important.
Bodybuilders guzzling shakes by the gallon? Not too bright and haven’t read anything other than the magazine headline..

[Oldmanmatt]

Oh, yes.
This one.
(Sorry, just skimming through my library)

This is a very interesting study and well worth a read for anyone in the coaching/PT business.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Joseph_Alemany/publication/6078674_Physiological_Consequences_of_US_Army_Ranger_Training/links/59eddea50f7e9bc36521f17f/Physiological-Consequences-of-US-Army-Ranger-Training.pdf?origin=publication_detail

[Sasquatch]

I know BMI is a poor measure for most things, but I do think that if you have a bmi over 25, then losing weight is almost always bound to help you.  And for longer sport routes, that is probably more like 23.  I'd guess if its under 19-20, then gaining weight will likely help your bouldering.  There will always be outliers, but that's also a pretty broad range.  Inside of those ranges things become trickier to manage.

At my height/age the difference between a BMI of 20 and 25 is about 3 stone, which is obviously huge. At BMI 23.4 right now I could lose a stone and not even be on the lower end of 'normal range'. Of course this doesn't account for excess muscle mass.

I agree that it is a huge range from 20-25, but body morphology and natural tendencies play such a big role in performance, that this range will vary massively for people.  If you are currently at 23, and find that you are not benefiting from losing weight, then i'd argue that instead of trying lose weight, focus on training instead. 

If you've only been climbing for 3.5 years there's loads to work on to improve without focussing on losing weight.

I'm at the heavier end of things for a climber but have climbed Font 8a, F8b at 85Kg/188cm. Historically I've 'cut' a kilo or so before my best performances but equally I was 1Kg heavier than average when I had my best run of bouldering.

Check out Dawid Skoczylas who is BIG and continues to operate at Font 8b+ level combining masses of power as well as finger strength.

Beware outliers and those so fanatical that they risk their overall health for climbing performance. Also people who wear knee pads on both legs.

85Kg/188cm comes in at 24BMI - right in the range.  I'm currently 78Kg and 176cm, and bouldering in the 8A/+ range.  The lowest weight i've ever been at while climbing is 75kg, and that was climbing 8B.  I could do with dropping 2-3 kilo's to hit "optimal" weight, but I'm not willing to suffer that much for it.  I'd rather enjoy my nightly beer.