[TobyD]

When I said educate Farage about his  nature,  I didn't have any intention of changing him more his nature as an object of  derision. 

I'd argue that  Farage is a serious politician.  In the sense that he's probably the most  successful politician of the last few  decades. Depressing though it may be  his influence has been unmatched. However if he ever, God forbid gained political office,  hed probably be f**led in a fortnight.  Much like  Mr Johnson,  hes not a details man and would  blunder over the actual essentials like diplomacy or dealing with figures. However,  today are the people with the real power politicians?

Who are Huawei more scared of, the US government, or Google? 

[tomtom]

Trump revelled in outsider status, but he had some sort of public agenda. Farage is a single issue politician so far.

I thought Trumps only agenda was to become (and now to stay) president. I can’t think of anything that is his policy direction - its all over the place and more “not what Obama/Clinton” would do...

[tomtom]

I'd argue that  Farage is a serious politician.  In the sense that he's probably the most  successful politician of the last few  decades. Depressing though it may be  his influence has been unmatched. However if he ever, God forbid gained political office,  hed probably be f**led in a fortnight.  Much like  Mr Johnson,  hes not a details man and would  blunder over the actual essentials like diplomacy or dealing with figures. However,  today are the people with the real power politicians?

Who are Huawei more scared of, the US government, or Google?

Some interesting points Toby - I’d say Farage benefits from the vacuum of decent leadership in any of the political parties at the moment (apart from the SNP I’d argue)...

Huawei is really interesting... their public reaction was more visceral to Google than the US govt - which implies google has hit them harder - but its probably safer/less political to launch a retaliatory broadside against a company than the US Govt (just). I suspect Google are seething about having to do this. It’s fairly easy for Huawei to engineer their own western version of Android (they already have for China where google products are not allowed/controlled) and with The 2nd largest phone manufacturer now forking Android majorly for their own purposes it takes a substantial chunk of the google control on android away (if that makes sense)

[Offwidth]

A counter-point to right wing popularism.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/22/yanis-varoufakis-green-new-deal-can-unite-europes-progressives

[tomtom]

May could be gone today.... seen the pictures of her answering questions to her plan with her front bench gone - a handful of tories left and fairly full opposition benches...

She's been deserted - I'd put money on those men in grey suits trying to push her out today. Whether they will or not is a differetn question...

[teestub]

Isn’t she technically safe until December from her own party voting her out?

[tommytwotone]

The 1922 could change the rules of the Conservative Party to allow earlier intervention and allow another vote.

[Johnny Brown]

Depressing though it may be  his influence has been unmatched. However if he ever, God forbid gained political office,  hed probably be f**led in a fortnight.  Much like  Mr Johnson,  hes not a details man and would  blunder over the actual essentials like diplomacy or dealing with figures

What like Trump you mean?

[TobyD]

Depressing though it may be  his influence has been unmatched. However if he ever, God forbid gained political office,  hed probably be f**led in a fortnight.  Much like  Mr Johnson,  hes not a details man and would  blunder over the actual essentials like diplomacy or dealing with figures

What like Trump you mean?

Good point, JB. However I think  (hope!) that there isn't the volume of people  prepared to accept a proven liar philanderer and all round  gob shite leading their country. I'm not sure the country would elect a Boris Johnson headed government, although the  few hundred thousand elderly  white men ( mostly) who will get to decide who occupies number ten probably will.

[tommytwotone]

This was touched on the most recent Brexitcast, in the context of the Austrian populist candidate who's been caught up in some scandal involving taking Russian money, bribing / influencing media outlets...and nonetheless is still polling strongly at 18% or something.


Whether it's Farage / Brexit Party and party funding / expenses, or Trump and Russia / grab-gate - it doesn't matter to their base. People aren't deploying logical thinking in politics in 2019, the landscape is more about an identification with a "movement".


I think this is (one of) the category error that the "mainstream" has made in the last 5-odd years, i.e. thinking that these new movements conform to the old ways of working.


To summarise (ex-UKB-er) Dave, who very eloquently posted on Twitter the other day, think we're at the point where the "put Farage on Question Time once a month so we can debate him and show up the futility of his positions" model has failed. Yes, chucking a milkshake at the guy is childish, not addressing the politics and is potentially a crime, but at least it's making a point.

[tomtom]

I thoroughly recommend reading this

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/may/23/what-happened-when-i-met-my-islamophobic-troll?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

It’s about an islamaphobic troll - but the parallels with the far right and populism are obvious.

[i.munro]

A counter-point to right wing popularism.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/22/yanis-varoufakis-green-new-deal-can-unite-europes-progressives

If only ....

[sdm]

His party is a single issue party that has has no policy on its single issue. By avoiding having any specific policies, he can't be criticised for the detail of those policies.

As soon as he actually has concrete policies, they will be open to scrutiny and he can no longer spend all of his media time just criticising the policies of others.

His brand of politics can't exist from the inside. It relies on being on the outside, avoiding scrutiny, while claiming victimisation over everything. I doubt he is willing or capable of changing.

Exactly. Well put.

That’s pretty much what they said about Trump. Non?

I did consider that as I was writing the post. Maybe that is a sign that I'm wrong but I don't think so.

I think the way he ran away from politics "for good" after the referendum shows how he has no intention of engaging in politics other than by sniping from the sidelines without having to worry about details or the reality of what is deliverable.

At least Johnson, Davis and Raab tried for a bit before running away to leave negotiations to people who bothered to put in sufficient effort to understand the basics of what the EU is, how it works and what our obligations look like.

[Oldmanmatt]

Well, I voted.

When I voted at 09:30, I could see the voter list as the lady wrote down my house number.
It was a numbered list and I was 29. So, hardly anyone voted before going to work.
This is the problem.
I also took 10 minutes and several laps of the surrounding streets to find a parking space, if I’d had, say, a 15 minute window between dropping kids at school and having to be at work, I’d have had to abandon my vote.
Meanwhile, the most gullible generation in history, safe and time wealthy in their retirement, have all day to amble down and vote for their swivel eyed Facist (but he has a nice suit and tells them they are the greatest generation and all those youngsters are wasters and lazy)...

Sorry, auto correct, of course I meant to write Facist but it just won’t let me.

Damn! Again! I meant Facist.

No!

Facist!

Ok, hang on.

F. A. R. A . G. E.

(You know, even if you try and type it all in lower case, without the punctuation, it auto corrects to “Liar”. Can’t imagine why).

[SA Chris]

I went at 3 before picking up kids, no-one in the polling station voting, on the A4 page where they ticked my name off i could see less than a dozen names crossed out out of the at least 50 on the page. Concerns me.

[Oldmanmatt]

[bendavison]

...I’d have had to abandon my vote.

Do you really think busyness actually stops people voting? Polling stations are open until 10 pm and, with a bit of foresight, busy people could vote by proxy or post, if they know voting on the day in person isn't going to be possible.

People with normal jobs, would you be allowed to go and vote in your break?

[sdm]

...I’d have had to abandon my vote.

Do you really think busyness actually stops people voting? Polling stations are open until 10 pm and, with a bit of foresight, busy people could vote by proxy or post, if they know voting on the day in person isn't going to be possible.

People with normal jobs, would you be allowed to go and vote in your break?

I've voted at 7 different polling stations, from very rural locations to urban locations. None of them has been more than a 5 minute walk from my home. Have I been very lucky or is lack of parking not an issue?

I have also voted by post and by proxy a few times when work or leisure have stopped me voting in person. 2 of the proxy votes were due to late notice work travel but I still managed to vote. I don't think you can do that if you leave it until election day (?) but if your travel plans change that frequently and you care about voting, you would have arranged for a proxy in advance.

As long as there hasn't been an administrative cockup, it isn't hard to vote even if you are busy.

I could vote on my lunchbreak although I might have to take longer than I'm supposed to to get there and back (which would not cause a problem).

Twice I have been working late for deadlines on an election day and have finished "early" in order to get home before the 10pm deadline. It would not go down well if someone tried to stop me.

[Oldmanmatt]

Ah yes.
But you are determined to vote and take it seriously, understanding that your contribution is important.
Plenty of people will be stymied by quite minor things.

I intended to imply that voting should be mandatory (I know, I know; freedom and all that Jazz, but “the people” suck).

I have umpteen secure accounts/apps online for everything from banking to paying my taxes. Why can’t I vote online too? Please don’t tell me that my ballot today was “secure” because I didn’t have to show any ID and I could have picked an address at random.

[Offwidth]

Everyone around when I voted this am was young and BME which cheered me up. On the down side, the news says many Europeans seem to be able to vote.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/23/eu-citizens-denied-vote-european-election-polling-booths-admin-errors

[mrjonathanr]

On the down side, the news says many Europeans seem to be able to vote.

Not keen on the blighters, eh?

[tomtom]

Why not by post OMM? I’ve done that last X years and once you’re on the list you seem to stay.

[Oldmanmatt]

Why not by post OMM? I’ve done that last X years and once you’re on the list you seem to stay.

No guys! I get that there are many ways to vote, my point is, that it’s very easy for people to be put off or just not bother to try and fit it in to busy lives.

As I said you (and I) are motivated and prepared, many don’t bother at all, others don’t prepare and still more would have gone “fuck it”.
I think “we” should be making it even easier and compulsory.

[Oldmanmatt]

Of course (I forgot to mention), I am conflicted in that view, because part of me thinks some people should be excluded from the franchise. So a small voice, way down in the back of my mind, is whispering something like this:

[Will Hunt]

Some general thoughts.

Farage is not a fascist or a nazi. He is many unpleasant things but not them. I think it's an important distinction to make. Those terms are becoming devalued by being applied to anybody to the right of the Conservatives. As we all know, fascists and the nazis were so much worse than that.

To people saying Farage hasn't reached his opinions through reason or logic. Well, he has. Again, he just holds different values to you and me. The point is is that he has chosen to argue the case using the most powerful tools at his disposal - people's emotions, gut feelings, and fears. Like it or not, would you expect anything else?

Appealing to a sense of reason among people at this stage is nonsensical. It's an identity issue and people likely made up their minds about it years ago. How many people on this thread can honestly say that, when they heard there was going to be a referendum, they stopped and thought about it and came to the best decision on the balance of evidence? I instinctively knew that I was for Remain and then was smugly pleased when the evidence fell in my favour. It's exactly the same for Leavers, but they choose to look at different sets of evidence (i.e greater sovereignty, better accountability of government, greater immigration control etc etc).