[tomtom]

No brexit or no deal brexit.

That’s what it’ll come down to if there isn’t a 2nd ref.

[teestub]

Not sure what proportion of the house have dipped their feet in the second referendum shallows yet, let alone the shark infested rescind A50 deep end!

[Oldmanmatt]

I love that, this morning, May has variously, “Scraped through”, “Crushed her opponents”, “Lost all authority”, and “Proved the only real option”.

Apparently, winning a vote with 63% of the ballots, isn’t conclusive...

[TobyD]

Apparently, winning a vote with 63% of the ballots, isn’t conclusive...

Particularly strange from a mathematical point of view is Rees Mogg's conclusion that 63% with 100% turn out for isn't a win, yet apparently 52% for something is a win for all time so conclusive you can't have another vote.

[tomtom]

I thought it nuaseating, revealing, and not surprising that all media coverage of Tory party supporters asked about the vote featured exclusively white men (70%) and Women over retirement age.

[Will Hunt]

Apparently, winning a vote with 63% of the ballots, isn’t conclusive...

Particularly strange from a mathematical point of view is Rees Mogg's conclusion that 63% with 100% turn out for isn't a win, yet apparently 52% for something is a win for all time so conclusive you can't have another vote.

Did you expect him to roll over and stop pushing his agenda?

[Oldmanmatt]

I thought it nuaseating, revealing, and not surprising that all media coverage of Tory party supporters asked about the vote featured exclusively white men (70%) and Women over retirement age.

Pretty hard to find any other sort, really.

[tomtom]

Comment from guardian reader

Tory Hard Brexit is a Trojan horse with fake patriotism on the outside and hedge fund millionaires on the inside. UK membership of the EU means worker’s rights and people’s protection, and that’s why they hate it.

[SamT]

Comment from guardian reader

Tory Hard Brexit is a Trojan horse with fake patriotism on the outside and hedge fund millionaires on the inside. UK membership of the EU means worker’s rights and people’s protection, and that’s why they hate it.

Good opportunity for a 'Jim'll Draw it' cartoon there.

[Oldmanmatt]

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/13/erg-theresa-may-brexit?CMP=fb_gu

[TobyD]

From Gary Young's article in the guardian today: “There are two kinds of European nations,” the Danish finance minister Kristian Jensen said last year. “There are small nations and there are countries that have not yet realised they are small nations.”

Neat. As the UK writhes trying to work out what happened to the empire and the US is preoccupied with a man everyone knows is a corrupt, incompetent politician, Russia has become the world's largest arms dealer, consolidates its power base in the middle east, and works out how far it can push it in eastern Europe.

Another cracking year for Putin.

[TobyD]

two good opinion pieces in the Observer today:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/16/failed-by-both-major-parties-betrayed-britain-lurches-towards-the-abyss

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/16/why-are-labour-party-leaders-so-quiet-on-europe---maybe-it-is-the-lure-of-disaster

I have to say that that I agree with their argument that the reaction of the official opposition to this crisis makes the current government look competent and cohesive.

[finbarrr]

two good opinion pieces in the Observer today:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/16/failed-by-both-major-parties-betrayed-britain-lurches-towards-the-abyss

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/16/why-are-labour-party-leaders-so-quiet-on-europe---maybe-it-is-the-lure-of-disaster

I have to say that that I agree with their argument that the reaction of the official opposition to this crisis makes the current government look competent and cohesive.

those are certainly opinions.
the guardian had a podcast last week that explained the labour silence on brexit rather simply : labour constituencies are more likely to have voted leave. (could have been a protest vote, could have been uninformed, lied to, whatever)
if labour does not respect that they will lose their base.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/audio/2018/dec/11/labours-brexit-dilemma

[tregiffian]

If MPs are representing the views of their, albeit ill educated and/or elderly, voters that sounds to me like democracy in action.

[finbarrr]

Yeah, a bit of a conundrum, should they represent their constituents’ wishes, or their best interests (and lose the next few elections)

[tomtom]

Parliament is stuck, because both major parties represent voters for and against remain.

Its not in labour or Tory interest to go remain or hard brexit. Despite what their MP’s think.

Its almost fertile enough to generate a new IN and a new OUT party.... but I think the political and media system of the UK make it especially hard for newcomers/parties to break through. And First Past the Post doesn’t help the genesis of new parties either.

Always leads to decisive governments right? :D

[mrjonathanr]

 

The endless ducking and diving about when they might call a no-confidence vote against the government makes Labour look like opportunists desperately hoping to luck into office on the back of Brexit turmoil rather than a party with the national interest at heart.

This ^^. The problem of a voter base split between leave and remain is real enough, but forever ducking the issue is not the solution.

[Johnny Brown]

Interesting detail from someone who actually knows what he's talking about.

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2018/12/13/full-speech-sir-ivan-rogers-on-brexit/

[tomtom]

Interesting detail from someone who actually knows what he's talking about.

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2018/12/13/full-speech-sir-ivan-rogers-on-brexit/

Christ - that’s a harrowing read. I mean a really interesting but grim read of what might happen.

Fascinating dispassionate commentary.

[TobyD]

two good opinion pieces in the Observer today:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/16/failed-by-both-major-parties-betrayed-britain-lurches-towards-the-abyss

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/16/why-are-labour-party-leaders-so-quiet-on-europe---maybe-it-is-the-lure-of-disaster

I have to say that that I agree with their argument that the reaction of the official opposition to this crisis makes the current government look competent and cohesive.

those are certainly opinions.
the guardian had a podcast last week that explained the labour silence on brexit rather simply : labour constituencies are more likely to have voted leave. (could have been a protest vote, could have been uninformed, lied to, whatever)
if labour does not respect that they will lose their base.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/audio/2018/dec/11/labours-brexit-dilemma

That wasn't really Cohen's point. His was that the Labour leadership are idealogically in favour of Brexit for reasons of political advancement. Corbyns constituency was firmly remain, I believe as for many of the other shadow front bench with seats in North London.

[tomtom]

Interesting detail from someone who actually knows what he's talking about.

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2018/12/13/full-speech-sir-ivan-rogers-on-brexit/

Been thinking some more overnight about this. And it’s a great piece.

One of its biggest point is about making deals (exit and trade) - and how the UK is in such a shit position because it set time limits (article 50 trigger) and red lines (both to appease brexit loons in Tory party) which box the uk into a time and position corner.

What’s clear as well is that if we exit without a customs union/ free movement - it will take years..a generation before things can get back to the level they were before.

Also interesting on how brexit argument has focused on manufacturing (where we are in deficit to EU) when really it should focus on damage to services (where we are in surplus).

I really recommend you sit down with a cup or tea or two and read it.

[Oldmanmatt]

Today’s “No Deal”, full implementation of planning for, thingy; includes the sentence “including provision of clean drinking water, currently treated with chemicals imported from Europe”.

Bit long for the side of a bus, I suppose.

[SamT]

Been listening to Mark Mardells Brexit - A Love Story? podcast recently.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p062h50y

For someone too young at the time to remember joining, it provides a good history of key events and how we ended up where we are now.

[TobyD]

Been listening to Mark Mardells Brexit - A Love Story? podcast recently.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p062h50y

For someone too young at the time to remember joining, it provides a good history of key events and how we ended up where we are now.

The 5Live Brexitcast podcast is very good if you want an in depth discussion of current events.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=Brexitcast&suggid=urn%3Abbc%3Aprogrammes%3Ap05299nl

[TobyD]

Today’s “No Deal”, full implementation of planning for, thingy; includes the sentence “including provision of clean drinking water, currently treated with chemicals imported from Europe”.
Bit long for the side of a bus, I suppose.

It is a massive embarrassment. Fridges and chartered flights to get medication in for the whole NHS? Using the whole of Kent as a lorry park? Swift decline and annihilation of British agriculture?
To top it off there is no alternative, the leader of the opposition genuinely can't come up with anything even as good as this heap of shit; just lie at the dispatch box about what he has said earlier that day.
For the sake of clarity I don't give a f if he is sexist or not, but he is increasingy obviously a fundamentally dishonest man. He can't tell the truth about this, about his instinct for leaving the EU, about anti-semitism...