[GraemeA]

If we do end up in eu elections this guy actually sounds credible: Sheffield's anti-Trump lord mayor ready to run for MEP

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/apr/10/sheffields-anti-trump-lord-mayor-ready-to-run-for-mep?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

If he gets the nomination I will certainly be voting for him.

[Oldmanmatt]

Halloween.

‘Nuff said.

[TobyD]

Halloween.

‘Nuff said.

Well maybe or maybe not.  Or will any attempt at consensus be abandoned in favour of a back biting power struggle (mainly conservative) and totally ineffectual mutterings (Corbyn) until about October 20th when there'll be another last minute crisis; unless someone somehow gains power in the meantime who is slightly more use than a fucking chocolate teapot.

[Oldmanmatt]

Halloween.

‘Nuff said.

Well maybe or maybe not.  Or will any attempt at consensus be abandoned in favour of a back biting power struggle (mainly conservative) and totally ineffectual mutterings (Corbyn) until about October 20th when there'll be another last minute crisis; unless someone somehow gains power in the meantime who is slightly more use than a fucking chocolate teapot.

Based on the last 2-3 years?

I standby my comment.

[tomtom]

Halloween.

‘Nuff said.

Well maybe or maybe not.  Or will any attempt at consensus be abandoned in favour of a back biting power struggle (mainly conservative) and totally ineffectual mutterings (Corbyn) until about October 20th when there'll be another last minute crisis; unless someone somehow gains power in the meantime who is slightly more use than a fucking chocolate teapot.

That’s pretty much my view...

[nai]

Oooh look at Switzerland giving voters the chance to change their mind in light of new evidence:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47879777

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Hearing the - god, I can hardly say the words - voice of Theresa May on the radio, feels like having someone implement an orderly exit of my eyes, out through my ears.

 

[TobyD]

Hearing the - god, I can hardly say the words - voice of Theresa May on the radio, feels like having someone implement an orderly exit of my eyes, out through my ears.

 

Much as you might recoil from the sound of Mrs May's voice,  and much as I have minimal to no faith  in either front bench in the commons, I'd maintain that May has made some very poor decisions but that this crisis is not her fault. Ultimately Brexit is a symptom of something  national rather than a direct fault of one person or  group. The guardian often publishes columnists who argue that 'the torys' should own it; I really think this is total crap. In summary I'm not trying to say I think that Theresa May is a good  prime minister, but things wouldn't be rosy under anyone's leadership at the moment. I really don't think that theres anything to be gained from personalizing political opinion.

Unless you're talking about  Marc Francois that is, who is obviously a pig ignorant  zealot with an over inflated opinion of himself and a brain which can't deal with the fact that it's not the 1930s.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

? What?

Where did I say that this is Mrs May's fault.

Where did I attribute this whole situation to the action/inaction of one person?

I won't bother expanding on exactly why it feels like a pair of forceps grasping my eyeballs 

It also doesn't stop me feeling considerable sympathy too - just not when she's complaining about the children not lining up in an orderly fashion in the playground.

[TobyD]

? What?

Where did I say that this is Mrs May's fault.

Where did I attribute this whole situation to the action/inaction of one person?

I won't bother expanding on exactly why it feels like a pair of forceps grasping my eyeballs 

It also doesn't stop me feeling considerable sympathy too - just not when she's complaining about the children not lining up in an orderly fashion in the playground.

Sorry Dave, I wasn't meaning to get at you, it was a general rant really! Many apologies.
I am also somewhat tired of Mrs May giving the same speech for the last 3 years but more tired of  over personal attacks on politicians.  Your comment was pretty fair, I'm just in a bad mood as I can't climb at the moment really and prone to ranting!

[spidermonkey09]

Where did I say that this is Mrs May's fault.

Off topic, but why do we persist in saying "Mrs May" in political discourse? Is it a hangover from the cloying "Mrs Thatcher" moniker? Trump is simply Trump in discussion, not Mr Trump, ditto Cameron when he was PM. It feels like the verbal equivalent of May's curtsey to me; overly respectful!

[Offwidth]

Ultimately Brexit is a symptom of something  national rather than a direct fault of one person or  group. The guardian often publishes columnists who argue that 'the torys' should own it; I really think this is total crap. In summary I'm not trying to say I think that Theresa May is a good  prime minister, but things wouldn't be rosy under anyone's leadership at the moment. I really don't think that theres anything to be gained from personalizing political opinion.

I think that first point is very important. There is a detachment of the voting population from the political classes and the 'elite' and the current mess on the news day after day is hardly going to be healing. Its bigger than Brexit and needs to be fixed. Our direction of travel is still in an unhealthy direction.

I still think the Guardian is correct on the specifics of Brexit as Cameron pulled the referendum stunt to try and block his rabid right and it failed spectacularly.  The government enacts legislation (at least in normal times), so it owns it. Where I think the Guardian is wrong is mostly ignoring or belittling the motivations of Brexit voters...as a broadly social liberal publication it should be doing better at looking into the concerns of a large section of the populace who have been 'left behind'.

I also think May is special I've never seen or heard of such stubborn robotic behaviour from a UK PM and its only gone on and on and on because there is no solution, given the Conservatives blew all their chances to get rid of her.

[Oldmanmatt]

Where did I say that this is Mrs May's fault.

Off topic, but why do we persist in saying "Mrs May" in political discourse? Is it a hangover from the cloying "Mrs Thatcher" moniker? Trump is simply Trump in discussion, not Mr Trump, ditto Cameron when he was PM. It feels like the verbal equivalent of May's curtsey to me; overly respectful!

Really?
Always struck me as the opposite. A subtle dig, “Mrs” implying ownership by a “Mr”; in that casually sexist way we put people down.
Along the lines of “Big girl’s blouse” or “Scream like a girl” and other stupid (but ingrained) derogative statements that imply a female connotation is a negative one.

Ingrained to the point, that we are incapable of seeing it until it’s pointed out.

I have tried to avoid the”Mrs” myself, at least I think I have. I felt as if I could just imagine the likes of Johnson guffawing, that “Mr May should take control of his wife” of similar (I’d put money on such things being said in private).

[spidermonkey09]

Really?
Always struck me as the opposite. A subtle dig, “Mrs” implying ownership by a “Mr”; in that casually sexist way we put people down.
Along the lines of “Big girl’s blouse” or “Scream like a girl” and other stupid (but ingrained) derogative statements that imply a female connotation is a negative one.

Ingrained to the point, that we are incapable of seeing it until it’s pointed out.

I have tried to avoid the”Mrs” myself, at least I think I have. I felt as if I could just imagine the likes of Johnson guffawing, that “Mr May should take control of his wife” of similar (I’d put money on such things being said in private).

Interesting response, and very probably correct with regard to the Johnson guffawing. Hadn't thought about the ownership possibility until now.

I did not live through the Thatcher years, but have definitely noticed a tendency among people who did to refer to her as Mrs Thatcher rather than just Thatcher. I don't notice this same tendency with regard to the Wilson/Callaghan/Major years. Perhaps a generational thing where women were always referred to as Mrs or Miss? My grandad refers to the Chancellor as Mrs Merkel, for example!

[GraemeA]

On a lighter note, I went to see Boris the Musical 2 last night at the Sheffield Theatre Deli. It has 2 more nights to run and it was very funny and bang up to date, referencing the new deadline.

https://www.theatredeli.co.uk/Event/boris-the-musical-2-brexit-harder2

[Oldmanmatt]

  The Telegraph!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/04/12/against-second-brexit-referendum-now-way-fixing-almighty-mess/

In other news:

Satan buys controlling stake in RAB, as Hell freezes over.

Sales of wide brimmed Stetson hats and armoured umbrellas soar, as domestic pigs sprout wings and take to the air.

Riots erupt on streets of UK cities as argument over shade of Blue moon, boil over. Is is Azure or Cyan?

[mrjonathanr]

I did not live through the Thatcher years, but have definitely noticed a tendency among people who did to refer to her as Mrs Thatcher rather than just Thatcher.

I did and she was always Margaret Thatcher to me and my peers. No faux deference in Liverpool, not even for back-handed sexism.

I don't notice this same tendency with regard to the Wilson/Callaghan/Major years. Perhaps a generational thing where women were always referred to as Mrs or Miss? My grandad refers to the Chancellor as Mrs Merkel, for example!

Not generational in my personal experience (geography?), always Margaret or just Maggie, never Mrs, but you may have a point. I do think OMM nailed it tbh

[tomtom]

The Tories own Brexit.

Don’t think anything else please. It is their fault. They own it.

Let’s not forget that this has driven a wedge down the middle of the Conservative party ever since we joined. Thatcher kept it together (for a while) they (europhobes) forced Major out. Eventually they got rid of Cameron et al.,

Johnson started the whole fake news EU bent banana type story with his missives from Europe before he was fired from the Telegraph. The Tory press have backed and backed and backed anti Europe rhetoric for the last 30 years.

The discontent and disconnect posts have talked about - also aligned to poverty AND austerity which has driven much of this.

Austerity was a Tory policy.

Did you hear people moaning about EU migration or the EU whilst the good times rolled (c. 1997 > 2007) and people were better off and living standards rose?

Sure there’s lots of frustration at many things jumbled up in the leave vote but the cause of that is again at the door of the Conservative party.

\rantover

[mrjonathanr]

Johnson started the whole fake news EU bent banana type story with his missives from Europe before he was fired from the Telegraph.

A propos… https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/12/daily-telegraph-forced-correct-false-brexit-claim-boris-johnson

[Oldmanmatt]

Johnson started the whole fake news EU bent banana type story with his missives from Europe before he was fired from the Telegraph.

A propos… https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/12/daily-telegraph-forced-correct-false-brexit-claim-boris-johnson

It’s very hard, for me, to accept that this man and the Farage wanker, haven’t broken the law (to a prosecutable degree) in all this.

I have often despaired at the vagaries of our legal system (so liberal an yet, often, so useless at protecting the vulnerable), but it really needs a damn good looking at. Lying for political gain, should be a serious offence and carry significant tariffs. Prove it, or go directly to jail, do not pass Go and do not collect £200(in bribes).

[tommytwotone]

Amusingly they forgot to register their domain and Led By Donkeys have got hold of it...


http://www.thebrexitparty.com

[tomtom]

Amusingly they forgot to register their domain and Led By Donkeys have got hold of it...


http://www.thebrexitparty.com

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[DAVETHOMAS90]

? What?

Where did I say that this is Mrs May's fault.

Where did I attribute this whole situation to the action/inaction of one person?

I won't bother expanding on exactly why it feels like a pair of forceps grasping my eyeballs 

It also doesn't stop me feeling considerable sympathy too - just not when she's complaining about the children not lining up in an orderly fashion in the playground.

Sorry Dave, I wasn't meaning to get at you, it was a general rant really! Many apologies.
I am also somewhat tired of Mrs May giving the same speech for the last 3 years but more tired of  over personal attacks on politicians.  Your comment was pretty fair, I'm just in a bad mood as I can't climb at the moment really and prone to ranting!

Thanks Toby.

Sorry to hear that you can't climb atm 

It seems a few folk have latched on to my use of "Mrs"! 

Please Miss. Can I go to the toilet Miss?

I hope you heal soon!

I still have one eye left.

[petejh]

I have often despaired at the vagaries of our legal system (so liberal an yet, often, so useless at protecting the vulnerable), but it really needs a damn good looking at. Lying for political gain, should be a serious offence and carry significant tariffs. Prove it, or go directly to jail, do not pass Go and do not collect £200(in bribes).

It would be hard to prove what constitutes a lie for political gain, and what just constitutes an economic forecast...

Oh is that not what you meant..

[SamT]

I have often despaired at the vagaries of our legal system (so liberal an yet, often, so useless at protecting the vulnerable), but it really needs a damn good looking at. Lying for political gain, should be a serious offence and carry significant tariffs. Prove it, or go directly to jail, do not pass Go and do not collect £200(in bribes).

It would be hard to prove what constitutes a lie for political gain, and what just constitutes an economic forecast...

Oh is that not what you meant..

Oh, I'm sure the judiciary could get down do the nuts and bolts of it. Perhaps we should put it to the test in a court of law. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-45971644/lord-sugar-prosecute-boris-johnson-and-michael-gove-over-brexit