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EU Referendum (Read 279506 times)

petekitso

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#700 Re: EU Referendum
March 20, 2019, 12:31:46 pm
Read the legislation again. A minister can't change the date unilaterally unless for some reason the treaties end at a different time to 11pm 29th March i.e. the EU have agreed to an extension and agreed the date. And then, the minister can only change the date to match that at which the treaties stop. It's just to make sure that the UK's exit time can be aligned with the EU's understanding of the exit time.
[/quote]

That's my reading. A regulation is just a statutory instrument made under delegated ministerial responsibility.

petekitso

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#701 Re: EU Referendum
March 20, 2019, 12:32:34 pm
Mind you, I don't even know how to quote preceding posts properly . . .

Ru

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#702 Re: EU Referendum
March 20, 2019, 12:53:56 pm
We leave the EU when the art 50 period expires in a few days time unless the period is extended by agreement with the EU or art 50 is withdrawn which can been done unilaterally. The Withdrawal Act only determines when we leave from the UK's pov by repealing the European Communities Act, but to remain there would need to be agreement from both sides. The point about being able to alter the exit date is that it can be done quickly if necessary, rather than needing primary legislation so it is incorrect to say that we necessarily leave by default at the end of March because there would be insufficient time to pass new legislation through the houses. There seem to be 3 options that are most probable at this stage (although this seems to change on an hourly basis): 1. Eu grants short extension ruling out longer extension - that forces parliament to vote on WA vs no-deal and WA wins (provided the vote is allowed). 2. As before, WA loses, no deal. 3. If the deal is voted on before art 50 expires, an amendment is added to the motion to withdraw art 50 in the event that WA is voted down so as to uphold parliament's previous vote for no no-deal in any circs, art 50 withdrawn, possible collapse of government (I'm unsure if we can unilaterally withdraw art 50 during an extended period). My guess is that the WA will pass because parliament has exhausted itself of options and is too cowardly to revoke art 50.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 09:40:33 am by Ru »

A Jooser

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#703 Re: EU Referendum
March 20, 2019, 01:03:13 pm
 :agree:

To Will and petekitso. I'm sure our understanding of this is the same, we can all read after all! Are we not pretty much saying the same thing?!  :???: :unsure: :???:

I've emended my previous quote, just in case my earlier one was a little imprecise...

The Act allows a Minister to change the exit date without approval of Parliament should circumstances require, but I can't see a point in doing it being possible to do so unless the EU consent to an extension. I'm sure it would take more than simply changing the exit date for the exit date to actually change!

...any better?  :???: :unsure: :???: But, everyone please do feel free to continue telling me what I think!  ;) Shesh, it's almost as if this thread exists just for people to find arguments with one another!...

By the way, I found the oft-used phrase 'accidentally leave with No Deal' an interesting one. The UK voted in a Referendum to leave the EU, elected two parties on manifestos pledging to honour that result, MPs voted overwhelmingly to invoke Article 50 setting a deadline to leave with or without a deal then voted overwhelmingly to fix a date in law. In what way is our leaving without a deal 'accidental'?  'Unintended', maybe; 'undesirable', if you wish; but 'accidental'?!  :doubt:

petekitso

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#704 Re: EU Referendum
March 20, 2019, 01:19:49 pm
Probably close enough but no offence intended (or taken) on my part anyway.

Will Hunt

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#705 Re: EU Referendum
March 20, 2019, 01:33:12 pm
Likewise. We may have the same understanding but I could only go on what you'd written which wasn't clear. You can clear it up even more if you like!

The Act allows a Minister to change the exit date without approval of Parliament should circumstances require, but I can't see a point in doing it being possible to do so unless the EU consent to an extension. I'm sure it would take more than simply changing the exit date for the exit date to actually change!

OK, I'll stop being a patronising twat now.


elected two parties on manifestos pledging to honour that result

This is one of my least favourite bits of rhetoric. With a two party system where both of the major parties made the same committment there was really no choice. Anybody not wishing to partake of what they offered would have either had to not vote for anyone or vote for a third party, which in many seats means welcoming in a party that you're fundamentally opposed to. There was no real choice and thus a vote for that party cannot be taken as endorsement of all their policies.

This needs clarity as well:
52% of The UK voted in a Referendum to leave the EU. 48% expressed a contrary opinion.

MPs voted overwhelmingly to invoke Article 50 setting a deadline to leave with or without a deal then voted overwhelmingly to fix a date in law. In what way is our leaving without a deal 'accidental'?  'Unintended', maybe; 'undesirable', if you wish; but 'accidental'?!  :doubt:

When a majority of MPs votes to avoid No Deal under any circumstances (because they changed their minds, something which many would have us believe the rest of the country is incapable of), but then finds that they've locked the doors and windows of the car that's speeding towards the cliff edge - that is accidentally leaving without a deal.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 01:39:04 pm by Will Hunt »

tomtom

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#706 Re: EU Referendum
March 20, 2019, 08:44:13 pm
Pointless statement by PM.

Childish behaviour by Corbyn

Meanwhile another finger holding onto the cliff edge has let go...

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#707 Re: EU Referendum
March 20, 2019, 11:25:30 pm
Pointless statement by PM.
Childish behaviour by Corbyn
Meanwhile another finger holding onto the cliff edge has let go...

Yup. It's really rather depressing. I don't know if I'd consider it an 'accidental' no deal. But it's the outcome which most MPs don't want, I believe most people don't want, but not enough of them have the motivation, bravery or in some cases intelligence to do anything about it.
Many hugely wealthy Euro sceptical MP s have their way, rejoice that they shorted the pound and retire to the massive mansion they can now afford in Tuscany. Meanwhile Corbyn continues to pretend he's the man of the people, whilst being as much use as a condom machine in the Vatican; and behaving like a spoilt 4 year old.

TobyD

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#708 Re: EU Referendum
March 21, 2019, 08:30:09 am
I can't help but agree with pretty much every European politician quoted in this article:

Pathetic, incoherent, chaotic: Europe's verdict on Brexit shambles

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/20/pathetic-incoherent-chaotic-europes-verdict-on-brexit-shambles?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

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#709 Re: EU Referendum
March 21, 2019, 01:36:44 pm
Petition to revoke Art50, breaks Gov website and becomes fastest growing in the site’s history.

Farage launches a poll, during Peston’s show:



Brexit march down to 50 people.

May criticised for possibluy inciting violence against MPs and roundly condemned from all quarters  for her address (seems like the best way to convince people to support you, right? Call them idiots, imply they are traitorous and betraying the people? Winning strategy, for sure  :slap:).

Oldmanmatt

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#710 Re: EU Referendum
March 21, 2019, 01:46:50 pm
Actually, I only got home ten minutes ago, so the above post was just my initial reaction to skimming the news,whilst I made lunch.

Having now read more in depth, eaten and finnished a cuppa; it’s probably worse than I thought. Funny that the Telegraph and the Guardian read almost identically in their savaging of May.

Anyway, this made me giggle:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-theresa-may-speech-bbc-news-statement-eu-delay-a8832941.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1553170220

Oldmanmatt

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#711 Re: EU Referendum
March 21, 2019, 01:48:15 pm
Just out of interest, do you see Brexit as having any negative effects on you personally? You're quite clear that you know there will be real problems for some people - "that's life" - but do you think any of the shit hitting the fan is going to splatter on you? Genuine question.

Genuine answer. Not really no.

I have a secure good job, and in each of our quarterly manager's meetings since the referendum the directors have stated our order books are looking good, there is no sign on the ground of any let up in the construction industry, the petrochemical industry, power generation or infrastructure projects in the UK, at least at the level it impacts us. So work-wise no, not for me.

Consumer wise - I expect prices of some goods will rise, certainly in the short term.  Some may fall as traders exploit loopholes. Longer term I expect no difference. Will this negatively affect me? Not particularly. If I can't afford blueberries from Spain as many times per week as I currently can then I'll be OK  :thumbsup: I can't think of anything I won't be able to afford post brexit that means so much to me that my life will be significantly worse off by not being to afford it. I'm fortunate that I'm well paid and don't have too many overheads - not the typical but a good position to be in. So consumer wise no.

Travel. I'll be able to take the same trips that I could before we left the EU. It may require a tiny bit of extra paperwork, but nothing that travelling outside the EU doesn't currently. So travel wise no.

Socially - Most EU nationals I know socially are planning to stay. A minority are planning to leave. This *might* be the area I notice most but that isn't really clear yet.

I fully expect you or someone else will come back with points about people less fortunate than me. Can I preempt you by saying you're better off asking them directly how they think their life will be impacted, rather than me. My guess would be that some would answer you that their conditions were pretty shit when we were in the EU, and that they don't think there'll be much change overall.

So, no real change for you, then, Pete?

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#712 Re: EU Referendum
March 21, 2019, 04:31:46 pm
Petition to revoke Art50, breaks Gov website and becomes fastest growing in the site’s history.

Because the internet is beautiful: someone has re-purposed their surrealist dick jokes Twitterbot to post the count, to help reduce the load on the website from people checking it to watch the number go up:

https://twitter.com/ultrabutt

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#713 Re: EU Referendum
March 22, 2019, 12:13:28 pm
Look, regardless of your position on Brexit (and because the Gov will ignore this, as they always do); can we just all (and I mean all) sign this and encourage as many others to, as possible?

Because, if it passed 17.4 million signatures, Nigel Farge’s head would actually explode (or, at the very least, start bleeding from the ears and eyes), and that mustbe worth it, even if you’re a Brexit supporter.


DAVETHOMAS90

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#714 Re: EU Referendum
March 22, 2019, 01:34:08 pm
I have, and passed it on. Have you?

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

Sorry if the link was already posted.

Oldmanmatt

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#715 Re: EU Referendum
March 22, 2019, 07:22:18 pm
So, the Great Brexit roadblock protest, seems to be huge.

I realise I might be jumping the gun, but it was scheduled for “Rush hour” today and (according to the organisers) “going to bring the country to it’s knees”.

Anyway, getting home from work at 17:30 and skimming the news with post daily grind cuppa, I realised there seemed to be no mention of the great event in the national media.

“Ho Ho!” I thought, “must be a media/Gov conspiracy to mask the outpouring of popular sentiment”.

So I actively Googled the dramatic and heroic actions of the downtrodden masses, and sure enough it’s being covered by the underground media. Just look!



Of course, that’s over now and the brave fighters have been dragged off by the Babylon, but  they went down fighting the oppressors.

The movement is unstoppable though:


Oldmanmatt

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#716 Re: EU Referendum
March 22, 2019, 09:20:23 pm
I’m sorry, it’s a dull evening. My youngest is having a sleepover and the lounge is 10 year old girl territory (I think they’re watching The Voice, or something equally banal); so I’m hiding on the Kitchen couch watching Watership Down on Netflix and keeping abreast of the day’s drama between episodes.
It’s all kicking off:


Oldmanmatt

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#717 Re: EU Referendum
March 23, 2019, 12:59:34 pm
 :jab:I know, I know...

But seriously, this write up is hilarious:

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/local-news/brexit-ferry-protest-plymouth-no-2677855


Edit:

Actually, I was just having a humorous dig, rather than making serious comment, but, compare the two realities:
4.2 million signatures on the revoke art 50 petition.
People’s vote march? Arriving by the bus load, some from Scotland:

https://bbc.in/2JC1sbV
« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 01:06:54 pm by Oldmanmatt »

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#718 Re: EU Referendum
March 23, 2019, 01:12:20 pm
I wanted to go today. Bit flew in last night and having been away a week I wanted to see family - and I’d have been killed if I’d not provided some childcare respite!!

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#720 Re: EU Referendum
March 23, 2019, 06:43:44 pm
I wanted to go today. Bit flew in last night and having been away a week I wanted to see family - and I’d have been killed if I’d not provided some childcare respite!!

Was hoping to go too but it clashed with daughter's dance show and who could pass on the opportunity to have every The Greatest Showman song and a clutch of modern pop classics blasted at you at level 11 while sitting through 40 odd acts to see your child for two minutes

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#721 Re: EU Referendum
March 23, 2019, 06:57:03 pm
I’ve been there- or somewhere very similar. Except that she was hidden at the back in the first performance  so we had to watch the whole shebang twice.

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#722 Re: EU Referendum
March 23, 2019, 07:35:01 pm
Apparently the revolution will have to wait for people to perform family duties :lol:

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#723 Re: EU Referendum
March 23, 2019, 07:48:13 pm
Apparently the revolution will have to wait for people to perform family duties :lol:

Nowadays the revolution waits for the crooked arm of a social media company to swing behind it...

Oldmanmatt

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#724 Re: EU Referendum
March 23, 2019, 07:54:37 pm
Apparently the revolution will have to wait for people to perform family duties :lol:

Nowadays the revolution waits for the crooked arm of a social media company to swing behind it...

Ain’t dat de trufe.

 

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