[galpinos]

For all those Remainers getting their hopes up, the vibe in my office (engineering firm in Manchester c.400 employees, old white, reasonably comfortable) is "we need to just get out, I'd prefer Boris and No deal than JC and more delay."

[andy popp]

he vibe in my office (engineering firm in Manchester c.400 employees, old white, reasonably comfortable) is "we need to just get out, I'd prefer Boris and No deal than JC and more delay."

I presume they're buying Johnson's line that Corbyn is "chicken" for not supporting an October GE? To me it looks like a transparent attempt to circumvent Parliament's will that there should be no no deal Brexit. Why the hell should Labour (and the other parties) be bounced into an election now just because Johnson's mandate and control have completely evaporated?

[tomtom]

For all those Remainers getting their hopes up, the vibe in my office (engineering firm in Manchester c.400 employees, old white, reasonably comfortable) is "we need to just get out, I'd prefer Boris and No deal than JC and more delay."

I think there’s gonna be more motivated remainers than motivated separatists this time around...

Tories have to win over some of these (nearly) all red Manchester seats for example.

[winhill]

[SamT]

BoJos brother has even stood down now.

For all those Remainers getting their hopes up, the vibe in my office (engineering firm in Manchester c.400 employees, old white, reasonably comfortable) is "we need to just get out, I'd prefer Boris and No deal than JC and more delay."

I think there’s gonna be more motivated remainers than motivated separatists this time around...

The point is though, come a 'peoples vote'  I still think it'll be a vote for leave.  If there is one trait that runs amongst the British bulldog camp, and that is admitting you were wrong is a big problem. 

Any leavers I've spoken to are still adamant that they'd still vote leave again. 

Even it swings back to remain, its still going to be a very small margin the other way. All the arguments remainers have cited over the last 3 years over the narrow margin will just get chucked straight back at them.

I'm now reasonably resigned to the fact that we'll be leaving, but hopefully with some sort of have decent deal.

I think parliament have actually done quite well to (seemingly) ensure we don't crash out without a deal.

[Johnny Brown]

I know a few leave voters who realised it was a shit idea more or less immediately (remember the vox-pop amazement when Cameron stood down "Ooh I didn't realise it was a big deal"), plus older leave voters who are very alarmed by the No Deal rhetoric. The leave vote was also bolstered by a lot of 'fuck you' austerity protest votes that will mostly not turn out this time. Plus they are genuinely dying off.

Even it swings back to remain, its still going to be a very small margin the other way. All the arguments remainers have cited over the last 3 years over the narrow margin will just get chucked straight back at them.

Surely we'll do it properly this time and require a super-majority? Hugely irritated that this point has not been done to death in the media. 1.9% is not a mandate for massive constitutional change. If no super-majority, no change. At least Parliament understands this, as we saw yesterday with an election requiring no less than 2/3 of all MPs to vote for it.

As I said above, what does worry me about any vote now is the social media illegal advertising which has not been addressed.

[Paul B]

Any leavers I've spoken to are still adamant that they'd still vote leave again.

I hit an impasse with my parents at the weekend as we couldn't rationally discuss BREXIT. I simply couldn't get them to read or look at anything without them solely concentrating on the language used rather than what was being said.

However, speaking to the in-laws over a dinner a month or so ago they were very interested to get the views of myself, my Wife and her brother as to why we voted remain, noting their age and the impact the vote will have on essentially their children rather than themselves (it hasn't been explicitly stated but I suspect they both voted leave). As myself and her Dad generally strongly disagree on politics this took me by complete surprise.

On that basis I fully intend on talking to my folks as much as possible about it (  ) in case of a confirmatory vote.

[Will Hunt]

The leave vote was also bolstered by a lot of 'fuck you' austerity protest votes that will mostly not turn out this time.

This doesn't make any sense. You're saying that people voted in protest at a government that they thought was failing to represent them. In their eyes they gave a clear and resounding instruction to parliament, which parliament has failed to enact. Why wouldn't you go out and deliver another big "fuck you" to them. There's plenty of evidence that this will happen in the support there's been for the Brexit Party.

[Oldmanmatt]

My leave voting relatives (thankfully, neither my parents, nor my in-laws), did not listen to either side of the argument then, in any meaningful way.
They were Leave voters, before there was a vote and the EU, in fact foreigners in general, were the enemy, long before any rise in UKIP or hint of referendum.

They haven’t listened or paid attention since. Certainly not to any pro-remain argument.
I don’t believe they have realised that there is any valid argument or debate, just “traitors” fighting the noble bulldogs trying to deliver “the will of the people”. Yes, my aunt thinks her own son, sister, nephew, and most of her relatives, are traitors.
(I’ve mentioned it before, her son is an expat school teacher living in Perpignan and facing an uncertain future. He’s lived there for 25 years).

Nothing is getting through to that woman.

She’s no idiot (well, she is, I told her so, but you know what I mean), senior manager at Post Office counters before retiring.

Oddly enough, we were at Mrs OMM’s Grandfather’s funeral last Friday.
That family are full on “Four Weddings and Funeral” posh. All doctors (usually married to a different kind of doctor (never nurses, I noticed)) or “in the City”.

Anyway, I knew F-I-L was LD, through and through. Turns out, the whole congregation were, even the vicar had a quick dig at the current Government. Mrs OMM (her name is Polly, I give up with patronising euphemism) Grandfather married a German girl, after  her Grandmother died in the early 80’s, so I shouldn’t have been surprised.

I digress here:

There were strict instructions that dress should be “formal but vibrant, no black” for the day long extravaganza, there were a couple of diplomats from the Nigerian embassy in full on national dress, extremely bright colours. Stuck out like the proverbial sore digit in the dour C of E chamber of arcane device (sorry, church). Apart from all the God bothering, my kind of funeral. With kids abandoning expensive suits, to make goals in the hotel garden as the wake progressed and the poshest game of footy ever took place. Squealing girls with skirts tucked out the way in pants, irate gardeners, the lot.

[spidermonkey09]

However, speaking to the in-laws over a dinner a month or so ago they were very interested to get the views of myself, my Wife and her brother as to why we voted remain, noting their age and the impact the vote will have on essentially their children rather than themselves (it hasn't been explicitly stated but I suspect they both voted leave). As myself and her Dad generally strongly disagree on politics this took me by complete surprise.

My grandad specifically asked me what I thought, along with his other 6 grandchildren, prior to the referendum as he said he wanted to do what we thought best, since we would have to deal with the consequences. 7-0 in favour of remain. He proceeded to totally ignore this and vote leave. It took a few months, but he has since apologised and I don't think he'd do it again...but you never know!

[tomtom]

Its really hard to call.

But this won’t be a referendum. It’ll be a GE where Brexit is the number one issue - but NOT the only issue. Tied into however you voted for Europe - will be the ‘I always vote labour/tory’ factor. Additionally, tactical voting will now have a very different dimension!

I’m less worried by the social media shizz JB. In leave campaign it was leave who got it sorted and remain were not. For the GE - all parties - especially labour - are social media savvy.

20000+ under 35’s registering to vote per day at the moment too....

[Oldmanmatt]

Actually, just had a convo with an old mate I joined up with bid.

He's with the FT now and so Tory it’s scary. We normally take the piss out of each other, then gang up on a mutual friend who quite likes JCorbot.
Anyway, just endured a massive rant from him about BBC bias, against JC! Apparently this is the talk of the FT office/board room today.
There truly is a growing feeling there that JC’s socialism lite, is preferable to Bojo’s high jinks.

[SA Chris]

Wish I'd engaged Daily Mail reading ILs before the Referendum, every time I bring it up the result they both get all nervous and embarrassed.

[tomtom]

Actually, just had a convo with an old mate I joined up with bid.

He's with the FT now and so Tory it’s scary. We normally take the piss out of each other, then gang up on a mutual friend who quite likes JCorbot.
Anyway, just endured a massive rant from him about BBC bias, against JC! Apparently this is the talk of the FT office/board room today.
There truly is a growing feeling there that JC’s socialism lite, is preferable to Bojo’s high jinks.

BBC is weird. It seems to flip flop between being a government mouthpiece yet the next day carrying a load of labour stories. Rarely together - possibly different editors I guess.

Anyway, I’ve pretty much ditched the BBC and my tv media sources of choice are C4news and SkyNews that was quite Tory a few years ago but now seems pretty balanced against the BBC.

[galpinos]

Actually, just had a convo with an old mate I joined up with bid.

He's with the FT now and so Tory it’s scary. We normally take the piss out of each other, then gang up on a mutual friend who quite likes JCorbot.
Anyway, just endured a massive rant from him about BBC bias, against JC! Apparently this is the talk of the FT office/board room today.
There truly is a growing feeling there that JC’s socialism lite, is preferable to Bojo’s high jinks.

FT ran a story today basically saying the city would prefer JC to No Deal and BoJo.

[Oldmanmatt]

Actually, just had a convo with an old mate I joined up with bid.

He's with the FT now and so Tory it’s scary. We normally take the piss out of each other, then gang up on a mutual friend who quite likes JCorbot.
Anyway, just endured a massive rant from him about BBC bias, against JC! Apparently this is the talk of the FT office/board room today.
There truly is a growing feeling there that JC’s socialism lite, is preferable to Bojo’s high jinks.

FT ran a story today basically saying the city would prefer JC to No Deal and BoJo.

Yes, Dodge mentioned that one of their reporters made an un-sanctioned tweet about the bias.
He’s “Global Facilities Director” so more a very senior janitor and not editorial (bastard can’t even wangle me a subscription, useless tit) but, the top floor is, I’m told, a-buzz with speculation about a possible delicate sanction or even an unspoken endorsement, editorially speaking...

[winhill]

But Labour are the spanner in this, as they - or at least JC - are pretty ambiguous as to their entire Brexit approach.

I honestly (as a remainer...) think a 2nd referendum needs to occur,

The general election will be a 2nd referendum by proxy.

Corbyn, it appears is relatively toxic, so would rely on remainers from the LibDems to do anything. The problem is JC has failed miserably. He could have been campaigning for remain for the last 3 years but hasn't, as a result leavers still look like the largest group.

"Almost half (48%) of Britons would prefer to see Britain leave the EU and Jeremy Corbyn not become Prime Minister. By contrast, only just over a third (35%) would rather the Labour leader move in to Number 10 and hold a second referendum. The remaining 17% are unsure either way."

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/08/17/48-35-britons-would-rather-have-no-deal-and-no-cor

Whatever No-Deal legislation is passed, BoJo can campaign against it at the GE. If he wins the GE, he can force through a repeal and proceed with no deal.

It looks like Labour can't win on Remain and certainly won't win on Leave.

Almost the only hope is a huge turnout for the LibDems, who were dead in the water before Corbyn came along.

[winhill]

I believe the intent is to ironically relate equally tenuous and irrelevant comparisons, as a way of demonstrating a degree of skepticism in your original assertions.

I'm sure that's the intent, the execution just nonsense.

It's a matter of public record that Khan was head of UKIM in Manchester, similarly it's well known that UKIM and JI share resources (UKIM used to have the logo on the website) and it's a matter of record that JI are a death for blasphemy party (it's their policy FFS!). So it's hardly some six degrees conspiracy.

I would say that the actions of JI have glorified terrorism and that should mean that JI becomes a banned organisation in the UK. Death for Blasphemy being a form of racial murder. No other MP in the UK is so far right wing so as to share platforms with people who glorify terrorism or racial murder. Compare them to say National Action who were banned for glorifying the murder of Jo Cox, membership currently getting you 5 years prison.

[Oldmanmatt]

Was Khan a member of JI?

Do you have demonstrable and recorded incidents of Khan supporting JI, or their policies?

In his record as a public servant, can you point to actions or statements that  might indicate extremist right wing or Islamist policies or agenda?

Is JI, currently, a proscribed organisation? Do you have reasonable grounds to believe it will become such? Do believe Khan should have been aware that at some point in the future, an organisation of which he was not a member, might be come proscribed, and thus should have taken steps to distance himself from and actively condemn such organisation? (Possibly his lack of crystal ball is criminal? We should investigate!)

Etc etc etc.

While we’re at it, perhaps we should be arresting anyone who ever associated with NA members?




I deleted a few more paragraphs.
Flogging dead horses.

You are implying guilt by association and merely providing evidence against the associated body, not the body under discussion. You have little or no evidence of anything beyond “being in the same room, possibly, at some point”.


Not even a six degree separation conspiracy.

Edit:

Oh and if we’re discussing Religious organisations who’s offical docterine might be construed as promoting hate crime etc etc, could I suggest you investigate the Catholic church? They have form too, pritty sure they might have officially sanctioned some grotesque torture and murder.

[James Malloch]

Assuming the Times’ source is true, what slimy bastards.

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/early-election-stops-students-1-6256282

[Oldmanmatt]

Assuming the Times’ source is true, what slimy bastards.

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/early-election-stops-students-1-6256282

More reliable than the Daily Fail, I suppose.

I generally accept the Times as reliable, anyone have evidence to counter that view?

Photo of Putin holding a copy?

Photo of Putin in a copy?

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Fuck but I’m grumpy this morning.

More coffee, me thinks.

Also:

Today, I will mostly be making typos and not realising untilllll it’s tooo latte too modificate.

[James Malloch]

I’d assume it was reliable too. Though god knows what tricks people are up to these days.

[SamT]

To be fair (not that I feel overly generous to that bunch of twunts) but its in any parties interest to time the election to be at a point when they feel most likely to win it.  That's why Labour are holding out. (notwithstanding the fact they understandably want to avoid a No Deal crash out)

[James Malloch]

Labour seem to be holding out to get no deal, one of their policies, off the table before an election which seems sensible.

Choosing a date to try and reduce the number of people who will vote just seems entirely undemocratic for a political party.

[Oldmanmatt]

Do you know, I’m actually beginning to think democracy in the UK, might be a bit of a sham...
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Not enough coffee currently available in the entire nation.

On that note:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-police-officer-speech-west-yorkshire-john-robins-a9094286.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1567767364