[spidermonkey09]

Not sure which forum to put this in, but if anyone is interested. My boss made me aware this morning!

I work in and around private equity and would suggest that this is likely to be the precursor to an increase in prices in a few months, another wall opening somewhere and a more corporate feel to the locations to get the punters in. Be interesting to check back in a year!

On a side note, it has been interesting to see the impact of private equity investment on Alpkit over the last few years. I certainly think their prices have gone up while the quality has decreased.

Yes, I am mildly cynical about my job!

https://www.insidermedia.com/insider/northeast/nvm-backs-indoor-climbing-brand?utm_source=northeast_newsletter&utm_campaign=northeast_news_tracker&utm_medium=deals_article

[remus]

Interesting reading about the alpkit investment. Is it what's mentioned here?https://www.eatswoodadvertiser.co.uk/news/finance-boost-for-thriving-newthorpe-firm-alpkit-1-8911016

[spidermonkey09]

Exactly

[jshaw]

 

Agree with you RE: Alpkit.

Used to be my go-to for bits of kit that you didn't use very often and didn't want to pay full wack for.

Now the prices are pretty much the same as normal brands it seems pointless to go for a brand you know don't include the nice little "extras" like ripstop, taped zips etc.

 

[SA Chris]

Shame they couldn't offer the public / users some options, rather than an equity company who will definitely want a return on their investment.

[joel182]

Agree with you RE: Alpkit.

Used to be my go-to for bits of kit that you didn't use very often and didn't want to pay full wack for.

Now the prices are pretty much the same as normal brands it seems pointless to go for a brand you know don't include the nice little "extras" like ripstop, taped zips etc.

Similar sentiments about Alpkit - they also seemed to expand their product lines really quickly, which is something I usually take as a bad sign for quality.

[SA Chris]

I was always under the impression that Alpkit was always just a "brand" i.e. they just took ready manufactured goods by others, and had it labelled with their name. I've often seen identical products in TK Maxx etc with a different company  branding (some of which may even be the manufacturer).

Hence product lines expand and contract quickly based on what they can get in at a low cost.

I could be wrong though.

Likewise though, not bought something from them for ages.

[galpinos]

I was always under the impression that Alpkit was always just a "brand" i.e. they just took ready manufactured goods by others, and had it labelled with their name.

They definitely used to, their stoves were re-branded fire maple stoves.

Koro: https://www.alpkit.com/products/koro

Blade: http://www.fire-maple.com/en/productsinfo.aspx?pid=8

Their pads were all UK made I think. Their bikes seem well received.

[joel182]

I was always under the impression that Alpkit was always just a "brand" i.e. they just took ready manufactured goods by others, and had it labelled with their name. I've often seen identical products in TK Maxx etc with a different company  branding (some of which may even be the manufacturer).

My old Filo says 'Designed by Alpkit in the UK - Made in China' on the label, and they defintely make a few things in the UK

[remus]

(My sister works in the alpkit factory, so im probably a bit biased).

My understanding is that they design and make some stuff in the UK (pads, rucksacks, probably some other bits that im not thinking of), design some stuff that gets manufactured elsewhere and then re-brand other stuff (stoves, headtorches etc.)

Personally I think the quality is much the same. Im not a fan of the design of their more recent pads (wtf are those bungee cords?!), but the bags are pretty decent and good value imo.

[highrepute]

I thought the Depot had private investment and this was how they afforded to build such amazing walls (manchester). Does anyone know if this is true?

I like the idea of share options but may not generate the same kind of capital?

[shark]

Not sure which forum to put this in, but if anyone is interested. My boss made me aware this morning!

I work in and around private equity and would suggest that this is likely to be the precursor to an increase in prices in a few months, another wall opening somewhere and a more corporate feel to the locations to get the punters in. Be interesting to check back in a year!

You can see the potential investment case. Growing indoor climbing participation figures in a sector ripe for consolidation. Plenty of publicity with the Olympics. Scale up, load with debt, float it on AIM or sell to a gym group.

[SA Chris]

Or allow users to invest, a  la Brewdog and similar, or Crowdfund.

[Will Hunt]

Yes, I am mildly cynical about my job!

When I first met you, you told me what you did for a living and then immediately issued a grovelling apology. Don't hate on yourself!

I can see huge benefits to attracting investment to a wall but, as Shark outlines, also the long term consequences. I think crowdfunding investment would be wishful thinking. Considering that there is a lot of reluctance among climbers to encourage more people into the sport, I can't see it getting sufficient backing to actually be significant.

[highrepute]

How much would one need to crowdfund to open a wall?

[SA Chris]

Not a scoob. But climbers being climbers, I bet if a decent offer was made - year membership at reduced cost for up front payment, I'm sure if it was in the right area and pitched right it would get the needed backing.

[andy_e]

Wasn't there a case of a climbing/yoga space in London being kickstartered recently?

[shark]

Interesting to see how the trends will go. A climber crowd funded wall will have climbers as the target audience but I suspect a more business focused wall will target newbies with clip n'climb ("delivering WOW experiences"), parkour wannabees, muscle up specialists, yogaists and crossfit refugees.   

[spidermonkey09]

When I first met you, you told me what you did for a living and then immediately issued a grovelling apology. Don't hate on yourself!

I can see huge benefits to attracting investment to a wall but, as Shark outlines, also the long term consequences. I think crowdfunding investment would be wishful thinking. Considering that there is a lot of reluctance among climbers to encourage more people into the sport, I can't see it getting sufficient backing to actually be significant.

Haha I remember that! No hate, I just keep myself healthily detached 

Private equity done right needn't fuck the business, but there are so many cases like Shark describes; load the business with debt and offload the highest bidder after 5 or so years. Profits are siphoned off rather than reinvested and staff are not rewarded, below the level of senior management. Look at what happened to Gibson Guitars in the US for a prime example of this.

[spidermonkey09]

Interesting to see how the trends will go. A climber crowd funded wall will have climbers as the target audience but I suspect a more business focused wall will target newbies with clip n'climb ("delivering WOW experiences"), parkour wannabees, muscle up specialists, yogaists and crossfit refugees.   

Indeed, as has been noted many times on these forums and elsewhere the likes of 'us', ie total climbing badgers, are not what makes a climbing wall money. Its the casual users who don't pay for monthly membership and drink a load of coffee, the kids groups etc that do that.

If the expected boom in climbing participation around the Olympics materialises a gap in the market may well materialise for small scale 'School Room' type walls where the focus is on training. I suspected that the cost of this would be considerably higher than it is having just checked Moon's website, which is interesting in itself. Hmm, an idea...

[spidermonkey09]

I thought the Depot had private investment and this was how they afforded to build such amazing walls (manchester). Does anyone know if this is true?

I like the idea of share options but may not generate the same kind of capital?

Would also be interested to know this actually.

Off topic, but anyone know whats going on with the potential acquisition of the Leeds Wall by the Depot...?

[Will Hunt]

The Barn was a small climbing wall in the Aire Valley. It had something like 5 top roping lines which were used for kids groups and some bouldering space. All in all the bouldering space might have been a quarter of the bouldering space that is in the Leeds Depot (that's excluding the back room with the woodies at the Depot).
The directors had invested £200k to set that up (it did have a small underground "indoor caving" thing which was crawling round in a basement, going through ball pit sumps etc).

There's no way you'd fund a medium or large commercial wall through Kickstarter.

[tomtom]

I heard the Leeds wall was closing and the Depot group was buying. And (interestingly) the closure was not due to the Depot buying...

Usual Chinese whispers apply..

[tomtom]

Investing in a climbing wall venture is something I’d be interested in -

[teestub]

Wasn't there a case of a climbing/yoga space in London being kickstartered recently?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/thisisyonder/this-is-yonder-londons-first-climbing-yoga-and-wor/updates

Will, this film got $80k https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/nevernotcollective/pretty-strong-all-your-favorite-climbing-chicks-in I wouldn't underestimate what you can raise with kickstarter with the right product. I bet if someone crowdfunded somewhere wall poor but population rich like Cambridge you could make a real go of it. 

Also there was some anti participation sentiment on here, but I don't think that is true across climbers, from what the BMC survey said anyway.