the shizzle > get involved: access, environment, BMC
Hold repair beta thread
shark:
Prompted by a recent conversation on FB that provided great advice on how to reinforce the wobbly jug on Rumble in the Jungle I thought it would be useful to have a thread that pulled together advice on reinforcing and glueing back broken holds:
The FB conversation was as follows:
Andrew Cherry Climbing at the WCJ Cornice today, noticed the top jug on Rumble in the Jungle is quite wobbly. It wobbles a good 5mm off the main wall, and seemed fairly alarming. Looks like it's already been glued/sika'd, maybe needs reinforcing again? Anyone seen/climbed on it recently, has it always wobbled?
Simon Lee Please glue it
Andrew Cherry if you reckon that's best? i've never glued anything before though, don't want to wreck it!
Keith Sharples Always a difficult decision - glue round it (as in reinforce it) or remove fully and glue back completely. Later defo gives best finish and strongest but requires skill in removal, cleaning and replacing and of course finishing off to make it look non-glued. Never as good (IMO but other may disagree...) to match round it and hope it stays on! The crucial block on Auctioneer came off in my hands so gluing it back on was easy decision/action.
Andrew Cherry Next question then, is there anyone skilled who's nearby/ keen who could give me a hand? Happy to purchase materials etc. I'd be fairly confident reinforcing it with a little guidance/ words of advice, but like you said - removing and glueing back on sounds like it requires a little more skill!
Kristian C BoltFund How big is this block. Is it something you could hold in your lap if it were removed?
Andrew Cherry for sure, it's the size of two fists perhaps.
Kristian C BoltFund Piece of piss then. If you can prize it off then do so to get all the mud out. If not then try to chisel out the old glue and muck and patch it up.
Andrew Cherry Right, I'll have a look when I go back. Recommendations on glue? If there's some other resource where I can read about this then let me know where to look!
Kristian C BoltFund A chemical mortar/resin in a tube is now sold to fit a silicon applicator, the larger tubes need a bigger more expensive applicator. They may come with a mixer nozzle or mix manually in a tub. Screwfix/Toolstation.https://www.screwfix.com/.../easyfix-kem-psc-175.../5650j...
I would not use it for bolts but should suffice for holds.
Keith Sharples Following is my methodology and you may find it helpful. Clean thoroughly as possible (brushes etc)to remove dust and rubbish then inject resin all around and jiggle hold to get resin behind as much as possible. Use an injection system if possible and/or a scrapper to force resin in. In this heat resin will harden quickly so probably mix whilst you're on the rope at the correct location. Monitor carefully whilst setting and hold still during later stages. Just before it totally sets use an old rag (cotton ideal) to smooth over the final exposed surface and remove any excess. Rub rag over adjacent area to get litchen/rock dust on it then rub that into the resin as it finally sets. Use disposable plastic glove from fuel station rather than bare hand and have a couple of carrier bags clipped to harness. Take care with any falling resin to avoid contact with ropes/harnesses etc.
Finally, use a bit of the resin to glue a couple of stones together on ground to ensure resin has mixed properly and then sets...
Leave hold several hours before loading - ie glue at end of session or stay off it on glue-day.
Hope that helps...
Andrew Cherry super helpful thanks! I'm fairly confident I can do this, as it doesn't sound like I'd need to removed the hold (which is the bit I'm not very experienced with). I'm relatively handy and work in a workshop so reckon I can get the mix right etc. Will head out with good intentions tomorrow, and keep an eye on my phone in case anyone has any further advice/ objections
Andrew Cherry Had a go today - after cleaning, got a good amount of glue behind the jug before the whole thing set in the nozzle. Hot weather = very short working time! It could still do with reinforcing at the bottom and edges, intending to go back next Monday and finish the job!
Rupert Davies You've got about a 5 minute hardening time with polyester resin in this heat.
Andrew Cherry Rupert Davies and about 3 minutes before it's almost impossible to get it through the nozzle D: got more pumped than I did on the route!
Rupert Davies Sounds about right. Need to attach the nozzle when you are already in place to glue and take a small plastic bag to take the waste unmixed glue that comes out at the start. But then you know that now...
Rupert Davies Yes. Conversely, if you are doing it in winter it takes about 20 mins to set and you get arm ache holding the hold on until it sets.
David Seb Grieve I was about to mention bring plastic bags, disposable gloves, use an old rope - its okay if you get the glue on your harness, shoes, draws and grigri but not your best RP rope. Also good to have a knife to lever out the metal clip inside since the gun doe not always push it off.
Andrew Cherry David Seb Grieve yup, all of those would have been helpful. Used a nut key in the end. Will be going back better equipped! I've put up a note on the UKC logs too, hopefully it'll be alright for the week.
Mark Rankine If it’s warm I push a small amount of glue through into a plastic bag every few minutes between glueing holds/bolts, to get rid of the stuff starting to harden in the end of the nozzle. Good work
Andrew Cherry This has now been glued! Second attempt went much better, armed with placcy bags and various 'spreaders'. It may not be the neatest job in the world but I'm confident it's not shifting anytime soon. Thanks all for the help, many things learned.
shark:
Bonjoy also wrote a superb article on repairing holds on grit in : April's Peak Area newsletter
Bonjoy:
Lots of good knowledge there.
Here's a good tip I've used for getting around the short nozzle time, tube wastage and cost of spare nozzles. If you don't need to squirt resin into a deep gap, instead of using a nozzle pump the resin into a small sandwich bag. Tie a knot in it and squidge around until the two parts are fully mixed. Then cut a hole in the corner of the bag and squeeze out the resin onto the rock.
Another fairly obvious point - make sure when you put the cap back on a part used tube that any cross contamination between chambers is cleaned off (use a stick or leaf if needed).
mark20:
Thanks Jon, great article in the newsletter. I missed that first time round. As you know I made the mistake of using an old tube of superglue to stabilise the surface of a hold that didn’t soak it well, and ended up with a plastic-y finish. Fortunately not on anything classic.
I recently used your tip of putting a drinking my straw on the end of a nozzle, to get glue right into a thin crack/flake - worked brilliantly. Just be aware you waste an entire tube length + the nozzle worth of glue, so maybe cut the straw in half first
Something I tend to do on routes is have a plastic carrier bag clipped to my harness, and when the glue from the gun is dripping I clip it to my harness and put inside the bag. Instead of just leaving it to swing around and drip everywhere. I noticed one crag in Portland where the lower part of a few routes where covered in glue drip ‘slugs’ - messy.
Good idea to have this in a searchable thread rather than lost on a Facebook/Instagram post, ta Simon
highrepute:
--- Quote from: shark on July 23, 2018, 10:10:52 am ---Bonjoy also wrote a superb article on repairing holds on grit in : April's Peak Area newsletter
--- End quote ---
Great article Jon.
Also enjoyed the Millstone history piece.
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