[Yossarian]

I spent a very enjoyable afternoon at Swanage last week pottering about on various routes with a TR / shunt setup. I’d previously tried out various techniques on the sandstone, but have since come to the conclusion that there is quite a lot of scope for improvement.

I was using an older 10mm dynamic rope, doubled, with loops pre-tied on one half and the shunt on the other. The shunt was attached using a fairly hefty old d-shaped screwgate. The latter ended up in a variety of sub-optimal positions, and I think swapping that for a maillon is probably the first imporovement I can make.

I’d previously attached a rucksack to the bottom of the shunt strand, to help with rope tension, but that’s not ideal on a sea cliff. Neither is coiling the end of the rope. I’m wondering whether getting smallish rope access type mini haulbag thing might be the answer - stashed with jumars / aiders, etc to facilitate more rapid ascent if required.

Clipping into the loops was at some points a major pain, but was also very confidence inspiring. However, I think a 10.5mm abseil rope would be a major improvement in terms of general ruggedness and also minimising massive amounts of rope stretch. My dilemma is that, while a doubled rope works fine on shorter routes, it would be nice to have a system that can accommodate some longer routes, up to 30-35m. Is using a doubled rope considered overkill (particularly as it would involve getting something quite long, particularly when the stakes are set quite far back from the edge)?

If so, I need to adopt a new system, with another device (micro-traxion perhaps?), although it would still seem prudent to clip the odd loop in as well.

I’ve also not yet tried any sort of chest arrangement to hold the shunt higher so the rope feeds through.

If anyone has any thoughts / horror stories they’d like to share, I’d very much like to hear them...

[guypercival]

The system I have used for years is with a single static rope...much better than dynamic as no rope stretch. I use a croll which is then held at chest heigh with a rubber sling around my neck. As long as it is not too short movement is not restricted and the slides up the rope very easily and is held up by the middle of the chest. The rope just needs a small amount of weight on the bottom.
The system can then be backed up with a “rocker” which I sent attached with a short lanyard to the harness.

[Fiend]

I’ve also not yet tried any sort of chest arrangement to hold the shunt higher so the rope feeds through.

My, and guy's, mate The Pylon Kunt uses a tied off loop of bike inner tube around his next to keep the shunt higher and upright. Works perfectly well (I've tried it briefly) but does give him a black ringed neck, not that the grotty old hippy twat washes anyway.

[Paul B]

Slightly different scenario as I was on Peak grit but a few years ago I realised I wasn't ever going to do a number (any?) of the 'hard' grit routes and went out during the week with an old single rope and a micro traxion. It was far better than my previous experiences of using a shunt or a modified gri-gri (MK1 with the triangular plate ground off). Kong do a very small handled ascender that with the trax' would make a quick escape very easy.

With the glazing, open body design and other design issues (grab and plummet) with the Shunt I'm not sure I'd be keen on using one that way these days.

I'm fairly certain a friend who makes a habit of TR soloing entire routes in the Verdon uses a micro-traxion.

[danm]

Check out Petzl's website, there's loads in there including general principles and suggested set-ups. https://www.petzl.com/GB/en/Sport/Setting-up-a-self-belay-system-on-two-ropes-with-two-ascenders?ProductName=MICRO-TRAXION&Familly=Pulleys

[duncan]

Petzl are surprisingly forthcoming with ideas about this on their website.

Numerous variations are possible depending on how you view redundancy versus convenience.

One decision is whether to go with one rope or two. Many use a single rope. Swanage strikes me as a pretty exciting venue and somewhere I might err on the side of caution and use two.

General approach is to use two different devices with different modes of failure, e.g. Croll and locker as per Guy, either on one rope or one each on two separate ropes as you have done. I used a microtraxion and handled jammer as per Petzl website

Several devices are used with the microtraxion currently popular and, as Paul says, the shunt being superseded in many people’s view. Elastic shock cord over the shoulder to the back of the harnesss (my preference, feels more comfortable than around the neck) helps orientate the primary device (the upper of the two).

It’s worth considering how you would extract yourself up or down from any scenario (can you jumar?).

[Johnny Brown]

I use a micro traxion and a 9mm low stretch, plus a grigri to get down. Both are on locking krabs on the belay loop. If it's so steep you could lose contact with the rope you need an ascender and sling to change from up to down and vice versa. A tibloc and sling will do in a pinch.

I'm generally more nervous about rope damage than device malfunction, but I've got a constant eye on both. Pack some rope protectors.

[Paul B]

If it's so steep you could lose contact with the rope

This sounds pretty catastrophic 

[Yossarian]

This is all really useful stuff - thanks.

Duncan - you’ve hit the nail on the head re Swanage. I think I’d be happy on a single static rope generally, but Swanage shits me up a bit in general, hence my dilemma. I’m not planning to head far from Subluminal for this sort of thing, but I don’t think a doubled 50m would quite work on the Black Zawn routes for example. Getting out doesn’t particularly faze me - i can jumar fine and had various prusik-assisted adventures as a child. It’s more the dislodging rocks at the top / rubbing on sharp edges scenarios that are of concern.

I think a micro traxion and a static rope would be the sensible next step, along with experimenting with the suspended top device. I’ll also try using a jumar as a backup with / instead of the shunt.

I also need to figure out which sectors on Portland have lower offs that are accessible (safely) from the top, as that would greatly expand the usefulness of all this.

[petekitso]

As Yossarian will be aware, there are different challenges for the southern sandstone T/R soloist.

Sandstone ethics mean that bailing options are limited to (a) clinging to the rock until training gains from isometric contraction allow the climber to complete the route or (b) untying (one handed) and soloing to the ground, possibly at speed.

[cheque]

I'm generally more nervous about rope damage than device malfunction, but I've got a constant eye on both. Pack some rope protectors.

I’m probably not the best person to be giving advice on rope safety but I’ll second the rope protectors advice. When I was doing sketchy, often improvised abseils off sea cliffs every weekend I had a comical amount of rope protectors on me at all times and I never regretted being able to stick one on any time it was required. It’s a horrible feeling looking up and seeing your rope going over an edge, especially when your way out is by jugging back up it. 

Those choss-covered slopes above most of Swanage are indeed atrocious. Wouldn’t take much sideways movement for a weighted ab rope to sweep loads of it off.

[duncan]

I’m not planning to head far from Subluminal for this sort of thing, but I don’t think a doubled 50m would quite work on the Black Zawn routes for example. Getting out doesn’t particularly faze me - i can jumar fine and had various prusik-assisted adventures as a child. It’s more the dislodging rocks at the top / rubbing on sharp edges scenarios that are of concern.

...
I also need to figure out which sectors on Portland have lower offs that are accessible (safely) from the top, as that would greatly expand the usefulness of all this.

Guillemot East? The routes from Saphire to Yellow Wall finish in a small cliff-top quarry and the top-outs are relatively solid.

I've seem locals top-rope stuff at Boulder Ruckle. Very detailed area knowledge or a strong belief in one's immortality seem prerequisites.

Blacknor South (just to the north of the descent chimney) and the southern end of Central (where the top has been quarried) might work.

[SamT]

What about a re-belay just below the "lip", so that the rope on the choss covered slopes above is essentially slack once your down onto proper rock. You just need to be adept at passing them safety.

[Nutty]

I also need to figure out which sectors on Portland have lower offs that are accessible (safely) from the top, as that would greatly expand the usefulness of all this.

The main Neddyfields cliff could be good for this?

[jwi]

I'm fairly certain a friend who makes a habit of TR soloing entire routes in the Verdon uses a micro-traxion.

I saw a clip of Tommy Caldwell TR soloing on Dawn Wall with a micro-traxion and no backup. Inspired by this I did the same on a 25m route I'd bolted. I found it too scary to have no backup system. I guess it's possible to get used to, and if seasoned practitioners are using the system on the Escales and the Cap it should be safe enough... But I like that Petzl idea that was linked above.

[Johnny Brown]

Rope access back-up devices are a can of worms but, on a couple of occasions I've taken one on climbing trips, e.g. St John's Head where I wanted a second rope to control spinning and swinging (and make it slightly less terrifying) while photographing free-hanging.

Having pretty much every device ever made at work I tend to go for the Kong back-up as it's the smallest and lightest, has a catch to spring the cam or not (sprung for up, not for down), and is rated for 10mm rope. Like most back-up devices, it won't work if grabbed.

[SA Chris]

I’m probably not the best person to be giving advice on rope safety

Made me laugh, kudos.

[Yossarian]

I got a micro traxion a month or so back and it’s been totally brilliant so far. Mainly used on the sandstone so far, and have felt safe enough using it on its own. With loop of bike inner tube through the holes and attached to crossed slings. Most of the time it runs so smoothly I don’t have to touch it at all. Obviously slightly tricky releasing it to move down, but doesn’t seem much harder than with a shunt.

It’s totally transformed what I can get done on my own, and miles less faff than the previous arranagement.

Will probably try with a grigri or some other backup on anything longer / more hairy. I had a recommendation re Split Rock as a good venue to try. Ta for all the suggestions / tips.

( The Kong backup thing looks interesting too...)

[DAVETHOMAS90]

I've experimented with the "Rocker" (Troll?) mentioned by GuyP above.

The advantage being that you can climb down using it too. It also doesn't require more than the weight of the rope to get it to slide smoothly. The disadvantage is that it does require a (short) lob to make it lock.

I can't see how any attempt to work with a back up system would ever be overkill, just a bloody good idea. TC on Dawn Wall may be happy just with the Micro Traxion, but I doubt anyone would recommend that as "good practice" 

In a similar vein, Jason Myers managed to "Shunt redpoint" Brave Gens 8b in the Verdon back in about '87. Yikes 

[Paul B]

I can't see how any attempt to work with a back up system would ever be overkill, just a bloody good idea. TC on Dawn Wall may be happy just with the Micro Traxion, but I doubt anyone would recommend that as "good practice" 

Loads of people seem happy doing this on El Cap when working a route (sans backup); brown trousers territory for me!

Alan Carne (as I may have mentioned already) does a lot of this in the Verdon.