[sxrxg]

On a long lonely drive back from the wall last night i started thinking about would I have started climbing and fallen in love with it if outdoor bouldering/climbing didn't exist (think no rock at all yet modern walls do exist in their current form). 

Whilst i really enjoy a good indoor session at a modern wall with well set problems/angles I don't find it a particularly memorable experience, I can remember the basics about the wall however I can't ever remember problems i did a couple of weeks ago never mind years. This is marked contrast from outdoor sessions when i can remember specific body positions, how a problem felt (out of body experience), details of specific holds, even how i was feeling emotionally on the day of a particular session or what the weather was doing and how it affected the day.  I do wonder if I don't have these memories because I am not as emotionally invested in indoor climbing or if it is the none permanent nature of the problems that makes it feel throwaway. Do others feel this with indoor climbing?

Due to these experiences i don't think that I would have stuck with indoor climbing beyond a couple of sessions if I hadn't also had the outdoors. I think I would have ended up being invested in a different sport instead that gives me the same types of lasting memories. Weirdly though if I no longer ever had access to crags again I think i would still continue to climb indoors only (I may however start to loose motivation and drift away from the sport...).

Is this something anyone else has ever thought about or was I just going slightly mad on a long dark drive home?

[SA Chris]

I'd have thought it was a given. Indoor climbing is only training anyway. Outdoors is a different experience totally; outdoors in nature, the immortality of the moves.

I can recall routes and problems I did years ago; I had an in depth discussion with someone recently about a certain hold on a route I redpointed in SA back in 1995, but can't recall moves on problems I did down the wall last week.

[Oldmanmatt]

I’d have to argue that this is absolutely not the case, at all.

I can think of several people, of various ages, who started climbing at my wall, are regulars and have been for years; but have never climbed outdoors.

For sure many more do progress to the real, but it’s by no means a given or even a massive majority.

[tomtom]

I think the memory is down to permanence and repetition.

I can still clearly remember some problems from the Leeds Uni Wall (corridor with rocks stuck in the wall) and I bet those aficionados of broughton and other textured old walls can remember all the problems they did many many times...

Following this - I can’t remember any moves on the low 6’s I did on one visit to Hepburn...

Problems (outdoor) I’ve worked extensively - or have been special to me (largely due to the ‘journey’) stick in my head with incredible detail. Just never put in that much effort or repetition ibdoors

[sxrxg]

So a couple of people agreed that indoor has less permanence in your memories. Based on this would you be a climber if outdoor rock climbing didn't exist?

Also anyone reading that only climbs indoors how do you feel about this? Do you not feel the need for the long lasting memories outdoor climbing often leads to or do you get this climbing indoors?

[SA Chris]

I started climbing in a pre-climbing wall era, so don't know the answer to the first bit.

Would indoor climbing exist if outdoor climbing never had?

[galpinos]

I would say that I'm the same. I got into climbing via hill walking, then scrambling and my love of climbing stems from my love of being in the outdoors, be that fell running, mountain biking, skiing etc. Because of that, though I really enjoy bouldering with friends indoors, it is always a means to an end. I don't dream of the orange problem on the prow facing the comp wall, I dream of Right Wall, Majorette Thatcher and Brad Pitt.

However, I see the joy in peoples faces that climb indoors and indoors exclusively and think that maybe, if that is how I entered the sport, i would love indoor bouldering and it might have been enough for me if I was unaware of "what was out there".

[jwi]

You get out what you put in, eh? I'm sure that if I was more passionate about climbing indoors I would try harder, remember the moves better, and quite possibly climb a fair bit harder both inside and out.

(That said, I don't remember many of the moves on any routes or boulder I've completed outside either.)

I like bouldering, but I would not climb if bouldering was all there was. I need the sensation of height to keep me interested. Climbing on long routes without ledges gives me more than long single pitch routes, which gives me more than short single pitch routes, which gives me more than bouldering. I would probably be fine only climbing in gyms if the walls were > 30m, which sounds uneconomical

[Nutty]

I'd say the 'uniqueness' of outdoor problems makes them more memorable, and not just the physical uniqueness of the problem but also the uniqueness of the location, weather, conditions, light, flora and fauna encountered and level of risk due to height/landing. I enjoy climbing indoors, but it's not surprising that problems that you've done in similar rooms in similar conditions using the same holds in a different arrangement can blur into each other in the memory in comparison, especially if you tend to go to the same wall and the holds on red problem 5 this month are a mix of the ones from last month's problems 3 and 4 shifted over a couple of panels.

I don't think I would be a climber if outdoor rock climbing didn't exist, despite the vast majority of my climbing being indoors. I don't think my motivation to climb outdoors is to gain a long-lasting memory, but outdoor climbing does tend to produce experiences that form long lasting memories. I'd probably run more if outdoor climbing didn't exist.

[SA Chris]

However, I see the joy in peoples faces that climb indoors and indoors exclusively and think that maybe, if that is how I entered the sport, i would love indoor bouldering and it might have been enough for me if I was unaware of "what was out there".

Bit of a Plato's Cave thing?

[Andy W]

On a long lonely drive back from the wall last night i started thinking about would I have started climbing and fallen in love with it if outdoor bouldering/climbing didn't exist (think no rock at all yet modern walls do exist in their current form). 

Whilst i really enjoy a good indoor session at a modern wall with well set problems/angles I don't find it a particularly memorable experience, I can remember the basics about the wall however I can't ever remember problems i did a couple of weeks ago never mind years. This is marked contrast from outdoor sessions when i can remember specific body positions, how a problem felt (out of body experience), details of specific holds, even how i was feeling emotionally on the day of a particular session or what the weather was doing and how it affected the day.  I do wonder if I don't have these memories because I am not as emotionally invested in indoor climbing or if it is the none permanent nature of the problems that makes it feel throwaway. Do others feel this with indoor climbing?

Due to these experiences i don't think that I would have stuck with indoor climbing beyond a couple of sessions if I hadn't also had the outdoors. I think I would have ended up being invested in a different sport instead that gives me the same types of lasting memories. Weirdly though if I no longer ever had access to crags again I think i would still continue to climb indoors only (I may however start to loose motivation and drift away from the sport...).

Is this something anyone else has ever thought about or was I just going slightly mad on a long dark drive home?

I don't suppose indoor climbing would exist without outdoor climbing.

As an older climber, what goes on inside is either training, the preserve of the 'athletes', comps etc, or the stuff for kids and groups to have fun and make some noise.

The stuff of memories and experiences for me IS the outside. I'm pretty sure if I came across climbing/bouldering now days I wouldn't be interested, it's too mainstream, shiny and vacuous.

[Mr E S Capegoat]

Midnight oil and malcs problem in splinter would meet the ‘immortalised’ criteria but not on ‘real rock’. The immortalisation in stone Chris refers to has more to do with the climber than the rock. Unless we regard the rock as a mirror of our souls, which I can dig too.

[tomtom]

I'd say the 'uniqueness' of outdoor problems makes them more memorable, and not just the physical uniqueness of the problem but also the uniqueness of the location, weather, conditions, light, flora and fauna encountered and level of risk due to height/landing. I enjoy climbing indoors, but it's not surprising that problems that you've done in similar rooms in similar conditions using the same holds in a different arrangement can blur into each other in the memory in comparison, especially if you tend to go to the same wall and the holds on red problem 5 this month are a mix of the ones from last month's problems 3 and 4 shifted over a couple of panels.

I think this is a really good point... aside from one or two dank corners of quarries every outdoor location is unique in its combination of weather and local environment. The wall is always vanilla...

That said - when I have been projecting things for a long time (e.g. 10+ consecuitve ish sessions) then the crag/outcrop and its surroundings certainly becomes more like 'going to the office'. Doing the same warm up routine, parking in the same spot, putting you bag in the same corner, putting your shoes on sat on the same tree stump etc... But - nearly always when I return to that spot after a period of time (Griffs last week was an example of this) there is a happy, comfortable familiarity with the place - though that can happen at the wall too..

[webbo]

If I could find crags the same shape and height as my board I might start going outside again.

[sxrxg]

The stuff of memories and experiences for me IS the outside. I'm pretty sure if I came across climbing/bouldering now days I wouldn't be interested, it's too mainstream, shiny and vacuous.

I often feel like this with modern bouldering walls, it is all too polished/shiny and often feel too large for me. Also the wall often seems to be filled with people using it like a gym alternative and not what i would think of as typical climbers, I have no problem with this and it is great to see people enjoying the brilliant facilities that are now available however it does sometimes feel as though climbing has lost some of the community and soul it had when i first started. Maybe this is rose tinted specs for the old days though of one small bouldering area within a larger centre where people (misfits that weren't doing routes) would all sit together and have chats/share beta between attempting problems, nowadays with such a large wall people generally move around the centre and you don't get the same atmosphere unless it is sat under a board (in most centres though these don't seem to get much use and are often empty when the rest of the wall is packed - I am also guilty of this though as having a board at home i don't want to use one when paying for entry to a larger wall).

The more i think about the question i posed the more i believe that, like Andy, i wouldn't be interested if i came across climbing/bouldering in its current form as a newbie and would pursue other sports instead. This assumes of course that I would get my introduction through a large bouldering/climbing centre (there is still the option to cycle to a crag with just a pair of shoes no pad and only a vague idea of where the climbing is and have a similar experience to I had starting out however with such easy access to indoor facilities I am not sure that i would have bothered to do this...)

[SA Chris]

one small bouldering area within a larger centre where people (misfits that weren't doing routes) would all sit together and have chats/share beta between attempting problems,

Come to Aberdeen then. Personally I'd prefer a massive dedicated centre nearby

[sxrxg]

one small bouldering area within a larger centre where people (misfits that weren't doing routes) would all sit together and have chats/share beta between attempting problems,

Come to Aberdeen then. Personally I'd prefer a massive dedicated centre nearby

Be careful what you wish for. I am almost certainly better at jumping about on big holds and doing dynamic moves however have got weaker on small holds and almost certainly don't try or work as many problems that i can't do (as there is always another problem you haven't tried in or below your grade range round the corner on a different bit of wall), this does make for more 'fun' sessions and is great when you want to remove the brain and climb volume however i find it more difficult to train effectively for outdoor as it is easy to do what is easy. For this reason i tend to now train at home on my board or fingerboard and use the wall once a week for a fun session (granted this is also partly down to starting a family).

Further to the above i may be weird however i think there is an optimum bouldering wall size (this is obviously dependent upon it not getting too busy), Boulder UK is smaller than other walls that are just as close to me however i frequent it more often due to it being smaller, feeling more climber focused (less comp style problems than some other walls), and being less overwhelming in size. Similar to this i will often head to the Foundry if rained off the peak for a session on the wave rather than heading to the Depot or the Works.

[Fiend]

Also, bUk is great. Good airy vibes for it's size, nice hold selection, and good setting that strikes a fine balance of being techy and knacky without gimmicky.

P.S. I still remember the fucking hemispherical green volume on some comp wall problem at TCA that took me 6 sessions....about 5 years ago... wish I could forget it tho.