[jwi]

...

I'm pretty sure that's rope drag, not tight belaying.

[Steve Crowe]

Disappointed at the outcome being decided on time. I’d have preferred either a super final or simply joint winners.

[teestub]

...

I'm pretty sure that's rope drag, not tight belaying.

Yeah exactly, looked the same for Janja.

[jwi]

Disappointed at the outcome being decided on time. I’d have preferred either a super final or simply joint winners.

Pilz & Garnbret deserve harder routes, it's not exactly the first time they both top out the final route. I don't particularly care if that means that everyone else falls of below move 20. (Garnbret would've been 3rd in the mens category in Arco, judging by her performance on the men's route when she tried it after the comp.)

And “disappointed” doesn't even begin to cover my feeling about the disqualification of Desgranges for touching a misplaced sponsor banner. As far as I can tell Ondra, among others, touched it as well.

[gme]

I thought as an event the comp was great. They seem to have upped there game as we head to the olympics.
It would have been perfect if only one had topped but it’s a hard task for the route setters to get right so there has to be something to separate them in the event of a tie. Personally think it should be done on countback rather than speed but neither is perfect.
They split the gold in a tie at the olympics but it doesn’t happen very often.
The issue with the signs in the men’s was bad and easily avoidable. Guess it won’t happen again.
Ondra was lucky not to fall foul as well but would have qualified.
All in all I think it’s looking good for the sport.

[jwi]

I guess it's OK to stand on it if your sponsored by BD?


(and count back wasn't possible because both Pilz and Gagnbret topped the semi final route as well, and the qualification was on different routes for different groups)

[teestub]

Ondra has pleaded his innocence but it does ruin the Black Diamond meme https://www.instagram.com/p/Bnf9U4Bh-Di/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1pbq4iglf9wop

[bigironhorse]

Thought that was pretty good overall. Next Sunday there is something called combined final. Anyone know what this is?

[jwi]

The six best male and the six best female competitors in the overall ranking for Lead, Speed and Bouldering will then move on to the Combined Finals on Sunday, September 16th. For this ranking the athlete’s results in each discipline will be multiplied with each other and the six athletes with the lowest score qualify for finals.

The sequence of disciplines in the final round will be 1 – Speed, 2 – Boulder, 3 – Lead.

[Fiend]

Jesus. Didn't see the qualis but when CB was discussing it during the semis, I assumed it would be a lot more clear cut than that e.g. Sean and Romain edging and Ondra just flagging / smearing his foot against the surface (i.e. no actual usage gained).

[jwi]

That banner might well cost the technical manager of the French national team their job. No french climber in the final in difficulty, neither among the women nor among them men. If Romain had made the final it might have gotten overlooked that they had no female climber in the finals.

[HaeMeS]

We've had a bit of discussion (between judges, climbing comp organisers) about the scoring/who won. Schubert and Ondra both scored 36+ but we thought it debatable whether Schuberts throw with his hand for the next hold was 'proper' upward movement. His hand was moving towards the hold in the same moment his body/center of gravity was moving downwards. He did touch the hold and so did Ondra. But Ondra moved his entire body upwards from hold 36 and almost managed to hold his body in a position above hold 36.

We'd give Ondra the 36+ but Schubert 36...

 

[Fiend]

I firmly disagree with that. As much as Ondra was climbing far better and looked ridiculously smooth until that miss. Going for a hold with the seeming intention of getting the hold is exactly what it says.

Jwi so what's the score with the banner - or screwed on placard - thing? Deliberately used? Cropped up before? Shouldn't the athletes know better? Is it the manager's responsibility for not drumming the rules in hard enough? I'd say it's BD's / the organiser's responsibility for putting a fucking stupid solid banner right in the middle of the route....

[GraemeA]

We've had a bit of discussion (between judges, climbing comp organisers) about the scoring/who won. Schubert and Ondra both scored 36+ but we thought it debatable whether Schuberts throw with his hand for the next hold was 'proper' upward movement. His hand was moving towards the hold in the same moment his body/center of gravity was moving downwards. He did touch the hold and so did Ondra. But Ondra moved his entire body upwards from hold 36 and almost managed to hold his body in a position above hold 36.

We'd give Ondra the 36+ but Schubert 36...

 

Watching the live stream I didn't see any reason to disagree with Jakob's or Adam's score and as an IFSC Technical Delegate at many comps I would be involved with any Appeal. And I have been involved over the last 20 years with the drafting and the Interpretation of the Rules.

[GraemeA]

Deliberately used? Cropped up before? Shouldn't the athletes know better?

1. It is not a question of using deliberately, it is about using. If you have accidentally used a bolt hanger as a foothold you are marked down. If you accidentally use a banned substance then you are guilty of doping (although you may escape further sanction).

2. I don't think it has cropped up before in Lead but the rule was introduced after a certain tall German boulderer blatantly pulled on a banner and consequently got a Top (maybe leading to getting through to the next round, my memory isn't as good as I remember it was!). Toronto (Hamilton) 2014 or maybe 2015. Plus Rustam used a Boulder Number sign as an undercut (matched it the cheeky little bugger) at a WC in Innsbruck, again around 2014/2015.

3. Yes, the athletes should know better.

[GraemeA]

We've had a bit of discussion (between judges, climbing comp organisers) about the scoring/who won. Schubert and Ondra both scored 36+ but we thought it debatable whether Schuberts throw with his hand for the next hold was 'proper' upward movement. His hand was moving towards the hold in the same moment his body/center of gravity was moving downwards. He did touch the hold and so did Ondra. But Ondra moved his entire body upwards from hold 36 and almost managed to hold his body in a position above hold 36.

We'd give Ondra the 36+ but Schubert 36...

 

I just watched it again and if someone who is qualified as a judge didn't think that Jakob had a '+', well they need to go on a refresher course because it was the very definition of a '+'. Centre of gravity moved (significantly) and a definite positive hand movement in the line of the route. Granted Adam might have 'won' under the old '-' rule but no way could you not give Jakob a '+'.

[HaeMeS]

I'll tell the judges! 

[galpinos]

Deliberately used? Cropped up before? Shouldn't the athletes know better?

1. It is not a question of using deliberately, it is about using. If you have accidentally used a bolt hanger as a foothold you are marked down. If you accidentally use a banned substance then you are guilty of doping (although you may escape further sanction).

2. I don't think it has cropped up before in Lead but the rule was introduced after a certain tall German boulderer blatantly pulled on a banner and consequently got a Top (maybe leading to getting through to the next round, my memory isn't as good as I remember it was!). Toronto (Hamilton) 2014 or maybe 2015. Plus Rustam used a Boulder Number sign as an undercut (matched it the cheeky little bugger) at a WC in Innsbruck, again around 2014/2015.

3. Yes, the athletes should know better.

Any comment on the fact it appears all three had their feet above the logo and only two were penalised? Would anything about the formal judgement be published?

To quote someone, "If only BDs shoes were as sticky as their logos......"

[jwi]

That three of the most experienced competitors in difficulty stands (inadvertently, I'm sure) on the banner shows how difficult it is to avoid an unusual obstacle. I'm pretty sure none of them would ever inadvertently stand on a bolt, at least not one with a draw in it, everyone who ever climb on bolts train themselves to avoid standing on them.

[GraemeA]

Any comment on the fact it appears all three had their feet above the logo and only two were penalised? Would anything about the formal judgement be published?

To quote someone, "If only BDs shoes were as sticky as their logos......"

I don't comment publicly on decisions made by fellow IFSC officials 

[GraemeA]

That three of the most experienced competitors in difficulty stands (inadvertently, I'm sure) on the banner shows how difficult it is to avoid an unusual obstacle. I'm pretty sure none of them would ever inadvertently stand on a bolt, at least not one with a draw in it, everyone who ever climb on bolts train themselves to avoid standing on them.

Lucka Rakovec was marked down in the women's semi final for standing on a bolt. In the Youth World's in Moscow was  also marked a few people down for standing on bolts. It is not unknown
.

As you say the 3 guys were very experienced. I am sure that no one as experienced as say, Adam, could mess up a clip by the 3rd hold http://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/world-competition#!comp=1524&cat=1&route=0 

[GraemeA]

Just saw the link to the Overall Rankings https://wettkampf.austriaclimbing.com/kvoe/rk_ergebnis.php

[Fiend]

Graeme thanks for the answers and the discussion, always interesting to read.

I have a couple more if you're still around:

One from a couple of months back, sorry if it's boring but am still curious:

There's a non-skipping catch-up stream here : https://www.olympicchannel.com/en/playback/finals-ifsc-world-cup-boulder-vail/

Graeme, my usual technical question this week is: W2, the swing into the dyno, it looked like Fanny was bumping against the left arete of that alcove, which seemed to be taped off. Did I see that right, and if so is that legit??

Also, why don't these comps have those large fans blowing towards the walls / athletes to create better conditions?? Warmth / humidity often seems to be a minor issue....

[tomtom]

Speed climbing finals live on the BBC website right now.

[GraemeA]

Speed climbing finals live on the BBC website right now.

I wonder if the Lead was also on the Beeb, and whether the Boulder will also be there.

And it is more live than the IFSC webcast!