[Ally Smith]

Burlier's Bane is the easiest .12a on the Undertow, then Kick Me in the Jimmy. Chainsaw Massacre is harder.

I'd agree with that analysis.

Barros' suggestion of double crag days is equally valid too.

[Paul B]

Also worth mentioning that could easily go motherlode for the morning and drive by or similar for the afternoon if nat wanted to climb elsewhere

What's the deal if it rains, are we stuffed due to humidity (Predator type Cheedale-scenes)?

TBH apart from her having a rather large knuckle that went yellow and black the other week (this has us both worried), she's been absolutely crushing this season:

Sticky Wicket, first F7b
Ground Effect, second (shortly after)
Slab Culture, first F7b+ (and she cruised it)

Given last year she found Kilnsey really tough that's all been very

[abarro81]

Depends. If the temp spikes and humidity is high then it'll all condense out like a mofo. If it's the cold kind of rain then you could almost certainly climb in it

[SA Chris]

a rather large knuckle

Resisting the obvious joke....

[Paul B]

We've now been back from 'the Red' for 4 days and basically, I had the best climbing holiday of my life, of anywhere, ever (you can't quite class the two 6-7 month trips as hols). Thanks to UKB for the above help, below is me wittering about various aspects of the trip/area:

This isn't down to performance either, purely quality of which there is so so much. Both of us were blown away by the rock quality, strength of lines / terrain throughout the grades; if you can only climb 5.11 or 5.10 there'd be plenty to keep you happy. TBH I wished I'd visited sooner as I've been nowhere where both Nat and I could find routes that suits us so easily (be that onsight or redpoint). Admittedly this is proving easier as she rapidly improves and I creep forward very slowly.

We didn't manage to climb in the North region or Miller Fork. However, I did leaf through the new guide (a mildly odd illustrated affair) and discuss the 'new' area with others; my understanding is that it's very good but will take traffic to clean up to general Red standards. It sounded best for long 5.11/low 12 stuff. There's no surprise that the guide(s) are much more affordable in the USA.

Performance-wise we both did reasonably OK although I'm guilty of just pursuing mileage (with so much quality it was far too easy just to do LOADS). I had an onsight go on BOHICA which I punted around the angle change and then had another go over a week later in horridly humid conditions, this died much nearer to the chains. Getting a large spider climb out of my hold and down into my armpit was not an experience I wish to repeat.

For the most part I thought the people were great (really I did just say that). Everyone was friendly, happy to help, encouraging etc. without being as annoying as the high-fivers you get descending the Chief (for Toby). At the lower grade venues I found climbers to be a bit more territorial, especially at the weekend where people have travelled for a fair few hours in a group. Likewise, people at the 'very top' seemed to get on my nerves.

Perma-draws were a bit love/hate. Mostly they're great but not when they stick shut! Also, if you are used to grabbing your own draws ever, the damn things are hard to hold onto (they're very thin).

Bolts - Odd to see so many expansions used, especially on the softer venues, for instance at Shady Grove, the belays were suffering to the point where the bolt/hanger had been visibily. There seems to be a plan to replace everything with twisted leg P glue-ins. I forgot to donate whilst there (to the RRGCC or Friends of Muir Valley), this needs rectifying.

I will be going back, most likely next year.

[Fultonius]

I think "bucket lists" are a bit to much like box ticking, experience consuming bullshit.

But.

If I was forced to have one this would be on it. Along with Indian Creek.  I can see an extended west coast trip sometime in the future. The force is strong.

[Paul B]

I wouldn't spend a (holi)day at Indian Creek until I'd ticked (or needed to train for) the tower routes I haven't yet managed!

I hardly took any photos... but if anyone is interested in the future I could definitely name plenty of suggestions throughout the grade range.

[Fultonius]

Tower routes?

[Paul B]

Tower routes?

Castleton Tower (North Face)
The other stuff on Zeus tower
In Search of Suds - Washerwoman

and TBH a load of stuff in Zion too.

[Wood FT]

We've now been back from 'the Red' for 4 days and basically, I had the best climbing holiday of my life, of anywhere, ever (you can't quite class the two 6-7 month trips as hols). Thanks to UKB for the above help, below is me wittering about various aspects of the trip/area:

Cheers Paul, what were your logistics please? (stay/eat/flights/cars)

[Paul B]

Ally's thought earlier in the thread are spot on I'd say. My brief notes:

Stay - We were n the edge of the Muir Valley with RRG Cabin Rentals. Cabins are expensive (esp. for two people) and ours in particular felt a bit like that Gite everyone knows in Font. The owner has it a bit too easy and thus there's no masses of upkeep. They didn't charge us for tea-towels mind you. Looking through the guide there are many other cabin companies that may be slightly less well situated (we were dead centre to it all) but they'd easily be feasible (Lago's is quite far south [closer to the 'lode], Miguel's is at the North end of the South Area), I'd still stay at Lago's.

Camping - Lago Linda's looked a million times nicer than the ghetto that is Miguel's at the weekend.

Eat - We mainly cooked. We ate out at the Rockhouse (it wasn't that great) and Miguel's (it was OK). Further afield we stopped off for a 'Triple D' tick at Wallace Station on the way to Woodford Reserve. WR was well worth a visit for a $10 tour, tasters and chocolate. Take a designated driver. I'm told Maker's Mark is also a good tour (by locals). This isn't eating (or maybe it is?) but Kentucky is dubbed the 'Horse Capital of the World' if that's your thing. Around WR the countryside is picturesque and very different to the red.

Flights - We flew from Manc to Amsterdam to Chicago to Cincinnati with KLM outbound. They were brilliant.
             We flew from CVG to Paris CdG to Manc on our return. Originally we were meant to go CVG, NY (change airports!!!), Manc. Delta changed us onto another flight due to overbooking.
CVG is ~2 hours from the Red. Lexington is just over an hour. We paid £600 ea. but someone who booked much later flew for £470.

Cars - They were all out of Chevrolet Sparks so they gave us a Tuscon 3.4l V6 with hill ascent/descent and all of the toys. Although I saw a Spark and a Mini Cooper S at the worst parking possible, high clearance is a must for an easy life (IMO). 4x4 isn't necessary. The car cost £21 to fill and cost us around £200 for 2 weeks.

Like I said we're thinking of going back next year and I know a few others too; this makes cabins cheaper (hot tub anybody?).

[Wood FT]

Nice one, that's a great resource

[Paul B]

Nice one, that's a great resource

It'd almost make a UKB destinations type article.  or  ?

[slackline]

It'd almost make a UKB destinations type article.  or  ?

It would also fit into the Wiki if it were back online 

[abarro81]

I should be there (and New River Gorge) next Oct/Nov all being well. Just so you're warned 

[Paul B]

Have you looked at the stuff near Tennessee too? Hazel has been posting a few images on instasocialmedia.com, it doesn't look bad!

[abarro81]

Not really, you know crag names? Was thinking of starting in Boston/Rumney to see Eddie B then working down via a bit of bouldering to NRG, RRG and maybe a bit of Chantnooga area stuff (Sept/Oct/Nov roughly). Very open to other ideas and suggestions at this stage though!

[Paul B]

https://instagram.com/hazel_findlay/

Also, a kid 'liked' one of my images via instasocialmediagram.com and seemed fairly local, the climbing in his feed also looked great. Query me via FB?

[Wood FT]

Nice one, that's a great resource

It'd almost make a UKB destinations type article.  or  ?

To do so would make this place too close to being a website rather than a meeting place of strong nerds

[SA Chris]

Cars - They were all out of Chevrolet Sparks so they gave us a Tuscon 3.4l V6 with hill ascent/descent and all of the toys. Although I saw a Spark and a Mini Cooper S at the worst parking possible, high clearance is a must for an easy life (IMO). 4x4 isn't necessary.

You never get free upgrades of cars (according to Dense?)

[cheque]

Glad you had a good trip Paul. Apologies for the duff vehicle beta. If you can get a Mini down to the worst parking now it's definitely been improved since '13!

Like I said we're thinking of going back next year

This is exactly how I felt when I came back after my first trip. I can see myself making many more visits to the south, the combination of the rock, the weather (in Autumn at least) and the people is just so good.

Article in the Guardian about Lee County today. Interesting if not uplifting reading.

Have you looked at the stuff near Tennessee too?

Not really, you know crag names? Was thinking of starting in Boston/Rumney to see Eddie B then working down via a bit of bouldering to NRG, RRG and maybe a bit of Chantnooga area stuff (Sept/Oct/Nov roughly). Very open to other ideas and suggestions at this stage though!

I'm told there's good route climbing in Tennessee, different again from the Red and "the Noo". Foster Falls and "The Obed" for sport, the T-Wall for trad. That's sadly the limit of my knowledge but I can ask for more.

Jerry Morefat on here has been to The New in the last couple of years- he may have beta for there if you need some.

[SA Chris]

https://instagram.com/hazel_findlay/

There is some great looking stuff on FB pages too (some the same)

https://www.facebook.com/hazelfindlayathlete/?fref=ts

The multicolo(u)red rock from 4 November looks amazing.

[Paul B]

Second trip here and I thought I'd add some info specifically on Miller Fork (with a particular lurker in mind  ); originally this trip was meant to be for RPing but neither of us got around to training so we fell back on low stress onsighting. As it's been boiling that hasn't been such a bad thing. Why are sandstone jugs so conditions dependant?

Generally, Miller Fork is like a less well traveled version of the Southern crags. Although the size of the somewhat quirky guide suggests there's as much in MF as the N or S, there isn't. However, there's quality equal to that of elsewhere in RRG but it's spread out. All crags are accessed via one parking area about 15 mins down the usual dirt/gravel roads through 'Methville' (nothing actually exciting). I've seen plenty of low clearance 2wd cars make this drive. IMO the quality is in the high 11s / low 12s:

Fruit Wall
Witnes the Citrus is a popular low grade pump fest
Banana Hammock more of the same

Cooper's Cover/Infirmary/Cloud 9

The routes around over-shadowed are again, long and impressive.

Graveyard
Grim Reaper is insane to stand beneath and realise it's only 12a
Gallows March
I didn't think Dead on Arrival was worthy of its starring

Muir valley now has a $10/car/day parking fee and Torrent is now closed to all apart from people staying in the accommodation.

I've also found Midnight Surf to be a good (Muir) for high 12s low 13s (no looping out left Barros!) and more importantly shade; Bangers and Mash, Baby-face, cell block six and tapeworm all deserve a mention.

[Paul B]

"Wild Cat Resort" - RRG Cabin Rentals

It was a great location (for both Muir and PMRP) whereas previously being close to Muir meant it was more of a slog (for a lazy sport climber) to the 'lode etc.