[andy popp]

I know you've gone to bed Matt but you should really listen to Helicon 1 or Mogwai Fear Satan.

[Oldmanmatt]

No no, not left yet.

Still downloading...

Helicon 1, is in fact playing.

I have to do something with an irritant Elf, who is not content to remain on the shelf and then I will be chilling with the headphones.

[seankenny]

This is the most fascinating thread I've read for a long time.

Aphantasia guys, what's your experience of novels and art galleries? I'm assuming the former would be utterly pointless to you, and the later, I'm not sure. If you can't recall images afterwards is it worth seeing them in the first place?

[teapot]

This is the most fascinating thread I've read for a long time.

Aphantasia guys, what's your experience of novels and art galleries? I'm assuming the former would be utterly pointless to you, and the later, I'm not sure. If you can't recall images afterwards is it worth seeing them in the first place?

I enjoy novels, but prefer plot and character development to long descriptions of scenery. When there are descriptions I can imagine the scene, but without images. Currently reading The Railway Children with my daughter, which is a brilliant book, but it is obviously in no way a visual experience for me. I can get seriously emotionally involved in a book or radio play, but don't form actual images or mental impressions of the characters or scenes.

I find art galleries enjoyable places to wander around, but I don't recall the photos in my mind's eye later.

I have always held on to photos and visual keepsakes from late teenage years, which surprised my uni friends when we met up a few months back. I guess that might have been a response to not having visual recall of memories. I do have good emotional recall of events, like when my mate called me late one night over after his fiancé left him, but I can't picture the scene.

[Durbs]

If you can only visualise pachyderms, does this mean you have elephantasia?

[Oldmanmatt]

If you can only visualise pachyderms, does this mean you have elephantasia?

And....

You win.

[SA Chris]

If you can only visualise pachyderms, does this mean you have elephantasia?

Really too much for me.

Fascinating subject I’ll reply when I have more time.

BTW Elegia by New Order gives me goosebumps, every time

[tlr]

Interesting how the mind works.

I don’t think I have too much trouble with the 3D visualisation thing, but I did realise recently that I have another, mild and entirely useless form of Synesthesia (by which I mean that like Teapot I had always assumed everyone was the same, but a chance conversation recently alerted me to the fact that that wasn’t the case).

I see days and months as colours, or rather each day and month seems to have a permanent colour associated with it to me.

So Monday is white, Tuesday is blue, Wednesday is dark orange, Thursday is beige, Friday is red, Saturday is orange and Sunday is pale blue. No rhyme or reason, they just are.

Googling it revealed that it is ‘a thing’, not normal, and a form of Synesthesia.

[Muenchener]

I'd have thought they're still only 'actually seeing' black ie. backs of their eyelids. 

Wait a minute though. The insides of eyelids are anything but black. The whole pattern recognition -> make sense of the pixels -> spot the leopard mechanism is still powered up & trying to make sense of its own internal random noise even when nothing's coming in from outside.

I haven't done this for years, but as a child & adolescent I often had trouble getting to sleep, and would lie there for what felt like hours watching the swirly kaleidoscopic patterns on the inside of my eyelids. (This is normal, right?)

When I visualise a route what I'm mostly "seeing" / feeling is my own internal kinaesthetics - move this here, weight that there - but a visual of the rock surface definitely is there in the background.

[Oldmanmatt]

Muench just reminded me of a childhood game I played. Pressing on my eyes until colour exploded in my mind’s eye. Vivid yellow and purple iirc. Quite the trip and lasted several seconds before pressure was needed again.
Completely forgotten too.

Although the fact that I’m completely comfortable with, understand exactly what I mean when I say, “my mind’s eye” and even consider it superior to my actual eyes; is probably the essence of this entire conversation.

It means something completely different to others.

So I ask: is it the spreadsheet without the graph?
A cross stitch pattern, without the finished picture?
Paint by numbers?

[Luke Owens]

I'd have thought they're still only 'actually seeing' black ie. backs of their eyelids. 

I haven't done this for years, but as a child & adolescent I often had trouble getting to sleep, and would lie there for what felt like hours watching the swirly kaleidoscopic patterns on the inside of my eyelids. (This is normal, right?)

I used to do this too, the "swirly kaleidoscopic patterns" become more prominent if you sort of push a finger into both eyes a bit just next to your nose... this made wild patterns.

It also used to leave patterns in my vision for a few seconds once I opened my eyes if doing it in the day, then I feared I'd go blind...  might look a bit odd doing it now, I was a slightly strange child...

Edit: Looks like Matt was just as strange!

[Steve R]

Wait a minute though. The insides of eyelids are anything but black. The whole pattern recognition -> make sense of the pixels -> spot the leopard mechanism is still powered up & trying to make sense of its own internal random noise even when nothing's coming in from outside.

Good point, maybe should modify that to mostly black.  For this type of thing it probably doesn't make much difference either way?  As Cheque said, it's still possible to do the visualisation exercises with your eyes open.  I guess it's just that most people would find them easier to do with eyes shut (mostly black + a bit of noise) than with eyes open(potentially harder to focus/more distracting) 

I haven't done this for years, but as a child & adolescent I often had trouble getting to sleep, and would lie there for what felt like hours watching the swirly kaleidoscopic patterns on the inside of my eyelids. (This is normal, right?)

Perhaps the brain learns to filter the noise better over time which is why we don't experience them as vividly or often as adults.  Various rabbit holes to tumble on down on these topics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphene

[battery]

My husband just sent me this thread with the revelation that he thinks he has it - can well believe it although could also believe that it's just an excuse for not noticing when I've had my hair cut!

I think I have whatever the opposite of Aphantasia is, when reading the questions I could cunjure up a new image, not just recall something I have seen before and I can feel the sensations - to the point that my stomach is turning at the pain.

I also have synesthesia in some form, basically the entire world is colours and shapes to me. I used to think it was just because I am a very visual person but then had an argument with my Dad about what colour Wednesday is whilst my Mum was sat wondering if she needed to call a psychiatrist.

[Nigel]

Interesting how the mind works.

I don’t think I have too much trouble with the 3D visualisation thing, but I did realise recently that I have another, mild and entirely useless form of Synesthesia (by which I mean that like Teapot I had always assumed everyone was the same, but a chance conversation recently alerted me to the fact that that wasn’t the case).

I see days and months as colours, or rather each day and month seems to have a permanent colour associated with it to me.

So Monday is white, Tuesday is blue, Wednesday is dark orange, Thursday is beige, Friday is red, Saturday is orange and Sunday is pale blue. No rhyme or reason, they just are.

Googling it revealed that it is ‘a thing’, not normal, and a form of Synesthesia.

This fascinated me when I found out about this. I was watching a programme on synesthesia with my Mum when I was younger and someone on it described what you've got, listing their colours for months and days of the week. I thought this was really interesting (I don't have it), and was about to say so to my Mum, but as I looked over she was shaking her head, then she said : "No, that's not right, Monday is lime green, Tuesday is...etc, everyone knows that". Turned out she has it (for days of the week only), again no rhyme or reason to it but she thought it was fascinating that other people didn't, or if they did they had different colours - it just seemed totally natural to her.

[highrepute]

on the theme of thinking everyone experiences things the way you do

reminds me of my friend who is blind in one eye being shocked that everyone didn't have their nose permanently in the corner of their vision (i guess she imagined it would be in the middle). It's very hard to explain how it's there and you can see it but also you just don't see it.

[kelvin]

on the theme of thinking everyone experiences things the way you do

reminds me of my friend who is blind in one eye being shocked that everyone didn't have their nose permanently in the corner of their vision (i guess she imagined it would be in the middle). It's very hard to explain how it's there and you can see it but also you just don't see it.

Ha - for the same reason, I've always assumed everyone can see their nose! I'm 6/60 vision in my right eye, so my nose is always there ghostlike to one side.

[Oldmanmatt]

I’m not weird.


Bloody hell!

Well, maybe a bit.

But, ffs, turns out everyone else is too, but each a little different (or a lot, and all points between).

Considering I would have described myself as moderately well read and worldly, to discover this vast range of variation in perception at 47 is stunning.

Kudos for the honesty. I’d only previously described my whole stress/force=colour thing when drunk (though I think I touched on once before elsewhere in the forum).
I once explained it to the MD of CMC Marine (who design and manufacture hydraulic and electrical stabilisers and thrusters) and the boss of Rexroth Italy, after too much vino. I’d known them both for almost two decades and consulted to both companies. Alessandro (CMC) had always assumed, when I stood behind his design lads and corrected over their shoulders; that I was calculating things at a formidable pace. In fact, I told him, the drawings were the wrong colour, in certain places.
Lucky they’d known me so long, because they both thought I was nuts and/or lying.

Edit:

I really struggle to see my nose.
And it ain’t small!
Crosseyed to the point of pain, before I can see it.

[cheque]

I really struggle to see my nose.
And it ain’t small!
Crosseyed to the point of pain, before I can see it.

Just close one of your eyes.

[Oldmanmatt]

I really struggle to see my nose.
And it ain’t small!
Crosseyed to the point of pain, before I can see it.

Just close one of your eyes.

Oh.

Yeah.

I’ll get my coat.

[Muenchener]

I really struggle to see my nose.
And it ain’t small!
Crosseyed to the point of pain, before I can see it.

Ten syllables too long. Back around.

[Falling Down]

Great thread.  I’ve been maxxed with work so haven’t yet had time to respond. 

I took part in the Exeter study earlier this year having stumbled across it when the BBC published a survey and I answered virtually every question with “Perfectly clear and as vivid as normal vision” so contacted the researchers and did the longer more detailed questionnaires provided. 

They’re still there and open for data collection as far as I can tell.

http://medicine.exeter.ac.uk/research/healthresearch/cognitive-neurology/theeyesmind/getintouch/

[Catcheemonkey]

While at uni I became interested in the Burroughs and Robert Anton Wilson interpretation of the occult.

Many of the ‘psychic’ exercises they promoted were based around focused group visualisation exercises. With practice, in a darkened room, I could eventually visualise to the point of complete visual hallucination, where I literally couldn’t distinguish between imagined and actual reality.

There was nothing ‘magical’ about the process - it was really a means of inducing a degree of psychosis in a controlled environment.

I had to knock it off eventually - as I scared myself on a few occasions when the lines became too blurred. All this underlined for me that perception is much more plastic than you usually appreciate in daily life.

[Oldmanmatt]

While at uni I became interested in the Burroughs and Robert Anton Wilson interpretation of the occult.

Many of the ‘psychic’ exercises they promoted were based around focused group visualisation exercises. With practice, in a darkened room, I could eventually visualise to the point of complete visual hallucination, where I literally couldn’t distinguish between imagined and actual reality.

The was nothing ‘magical’ about the process - it was really a means of inducing a degree of pshycosis in a controlled environment.

I had to knock it off eventually - as I scared myself on a few occasions when the lines became too blurred. All this underlined for me that perception is much more plastic than you usually appreciate in daily life.

Or, less mushrooms with your tea...

[Catcheemonkey]

That may have been a contributing factor!

[Oldmanmatt]

As if by magic, the scientist appeared...

Now, NS is paywalled, but I’m guessing a few here subscribe, or will find a way around:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg23631572-200-the-people-who-can-see-time/?cmpid=SOC%257CNSNS%257C2017-Echobox&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook