[Duma]

Not sure why the previous topic was locked?
Would be nice to know what, if anything, the IO's are planning?
Does anyone think the current theme is ok? (as anything other than a stopgap). Of course I do appreciate that the previous version had become unstable and needed something done, but surely a usable mobile version is an absolute minimum requirement? And changing the colours, text etc shouldn't be that difficult?

Another issue I've found is when on a mobile I can't wad or punter anyone - if I expand the member details under their avatar the option doesn't appear (chrome on android)

[Luke Owens]

Does anyone think the current theme is ok?

I don't like it personally and would prefer something more like what it used to be.

[petejh]

The new look is hard on the eye. Font is too small. The loss of karma comments is a negative. A few other subtle differences in the overall look which add up to a more user-unfriendly experience.

I appreciate the effort in sorting out bugs. For me this new format has had a negative effect on using ukb. 

[tommytwotone]

Toby / Shark - is there the option for a rollback? Or would that just result in the forum being down?

Potential for a mass migration to an alternative platform?

Understand it would be a significant piece of work but I agree with pete re the look and feel, and think it could short/medium term be the beginning of the end of something that is of huge value to the climbing community.

[tommytwotone]

In fact...


https://www.discourse.org/

[tomtom]

but I ... think it could short/medium term be the beginning of the end of something that is of huge value to the climbing community.

+1 those are my views too....

It's now not worth the effort/pain of trying to view on a mobile any more for me.

So my interactions will only be when at work, and the new desktop version isn't too flash.

As 3T said - instead of updating servers etc.. maybe bite the bullet and move to a different system - google discussions for example, lock all the old threads and archive. Even Facebook....

[standard]

Do not agree about swapping out for new forum software. That will definitely kill ukb (unless all content was moved without fail).

I can't see what the problem is with reverting to the default theme, as before. It's better than this.

[tomtom]

Needs a mobile view/theme/option... 80-90% of my viewing was from mobile

a quick google shows that now over 50% of all webpage traffic worldwide is from mobile.. 

[Fiend]

I concur. I'm still using UKB fine, have had time to adjust to it, and there's plenty I just don't like about it. Too bright, too monochrome, harder to read, less gently broken up by blue / grey colours, less separation between people's posts, unread message symbology is less eye-catching, avatars are distorted, circular design for avatars is contrary to 99% of how images are viewed, dashed outline is ugly, usernames are much harder to read, there might be more.

[Clart]

I mainly view ukb on tapatalk but it doesn't seem to work on that anymore. New theme is way too bright and hard to read. I can see myself using this less and less as a result. Sad as it was a good source of info. 

[Will Hunt]

I can live with a lot of the aesthetic deficiencies that have been mentioned, but the real turn off is the lack of a mobile friendly format. Think fixing that should be a priority.

[webbo]

Bikeradar forum uses the same format as the old ukb forum. So presumably the format is not an issue as that seems to be a much bigger site both in volume of use and what's on offer.

[Oldmanmatt]

I no longer have a PC or Laptop, at all.

Both at work and at home we operate on iPads with a 2tb server; so I never view UKB on anything other than a “mobile device”.

The new format is ok on a tablet, shocking on a phone and clunky with that BBC code stuff.
All the features (like strike through etc) can be achieved by downloading a new keyboard app or emoji app.
The beauty of the Tapatalk app was direct insertion of links and photos, via Tapatalk (I guess anything that was put in through that is gone now?).

So I miss the ease of Tapatalk and the easily customised view (I had it set on night view permanently, ie white on black).
I always used the browser as well, though, because things like karma couldn’t be viewed in Tapatalk.
Really, really miss it on my phone.

I hope the forum doesn’t die off because of this and I do think it’s quite a bit more than gripping over change for the sake of it.

[Obi-Wan is lost...]

Why is a mobile theme for SMF an issue? A quick Google brought up a few options;
https://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=552969.0

This looks like a possibility, if we can replace the Comic Sans!
https://custom.simplemachines.org/themes/index.php?lemma=2801

[tommytwotone]

Karma comments: I'd like the site to clock up a few more weeks without outages before making any software changes. Also, this.

So are you saying that :

a) there is potential to reinstate / recover the legacy karma data but it's at a risk of site stability, and
b) that it's effectively unsupported functionality?

My initial reading of your comments re: karma was that all the comments etc are gone forever, and there's no way we're putting the commentary functionality back in as that's what was breaking the site.

If a) and b) above are true then I'd argue it's worth the risk - worst that happens is it get tested out in live and if it breaks it gets taken out, we'd be no worse off than we are now.

[Duma]

Thanks for reply habrich.

Perceived need for a mobile theme noted - I will investigate.

This sounds like you're not convinced there is a need? Do you think the site is ok (or even usable) on a mobile currently? Or is it that you don't use it on mobile so aren't bothered? I think if this issue isn't resolved, and pretty soon, many of the regular users will fade away, and since UKB's value is entirely driven by it's user generated content, so will the site.

Burnt retinas: the theme uses an off-white background colour that browsers apparently often render as pure white. I have changed the CSS to use another off-white colour that should render as 1-2% less bright. It looks better on my computer.

Can you change the CSS to something more similar to the old colours? Seems everyone prefferred that.

Text size/clarity really needs sorting too, I'm reading on a PC at +110% zoom and it's still a bit small.

[Paul B]

I'm guessing the Overlords are aware but the search function seems to have returned to SMF rather than using Google.

[tomtom]

The less dazzling white is very welcome!

But what Duma said - text size still too small for me - and IMHO mobile functionality is probably more important than PC.

Personally I don't mind losing the Karma explanations (it was an opportunity for people to be funny - or to know why you were Karma'd - but also an opportunity for people to be snide/have a dig) - but I'm just one person. In the grand scheme of what seems to have been lost (mobile support and general usability) its no biggie...

BTW - the buttons/links I used to use MOST often (unread posts, new posts) that led to a list of said posts has now vanished. Which means I now have to click on forum then some other button on the right and thats only new posts I think.

I notice that the smf forum (for discussing SMF matters) has our old pale blue scheme.... just sayin....

[standard]

I can't see what the problem is with reverting to the default theme, as before. It's better than this.

 

[Will Hunt]

Personally I don't mind losing the Karma explanations (it was an opportunity for people to be funny - or to know why you were Karma'd - but also an opportunity for people to be snide/have a dig) - but I'm just one person. In the grand scheme of what seems to have been lost (mobile support and general usability) its no biggie...

Thing is, if I've said something dig-worthy, then I'm happy to take my dig, but I'd rather have the explanation for said dig be publically viewable, else people can just spam the Punter button with impunity. I've got loads of negative karma, but if anybody was bothered enough to look and could see the info behind it then they'd see that most of it (with some exceptions) from the last few years has been from a couple of serial Punterers or my mates for relatively minor offences. In my eyes the Karma system is the principal way that the forum is policed and it has worked very well, but that system is totally dependent upon the reason for the karma being visible. Imagine if your colleagues at work tried to give you feedback by anonymously leaving you hate mail in your pigeonhole. You wouldn't be able to mend your ways because you wouldn't know who you'd pissed off or why.

[tommytwotone]

...imagine if your colleagues at work tried to give you feedback by anonymously leaving you hate mail in your pigeonhole.

Where do you work Will - the early 1980s?

[fried]

...imagine if your colleagues at work tried to give you feedback by anonymously leaving you hate mail in your pigeonhole.

Where do you work Will - the early 1980s?

I wadded yo for making me laugh

[Will Hunt]

Perceived need for a mobile theme noted - I will investigate.

This sounds like you're not convinced there is a need?

Well, actually, yes.

I would rather see a smaller number of considered long-form comments from people typing at home (or wherever) on laptops than a higher volume of quick-fire stuff from people using phones on the move. I think that's a key way in which web forums can differentiate themselves from Facebook groups. Which, furthermore, I think is a really important issue. Generally-speaking web forums are being killed off by Facebook groups. I think that's a shame for all sorts of reasons, of which I'd especially note that FB groups tend to be obsessively focused on the latest hot topics and that there is no classification of topics so search is impossible unless you know a precise search string (an example on climbing forums is looking up new routing history - impossible on FB if you don't already know the route names). If web forums are going to survive it will probably be through tacking in a different direction to social media.

I've posted plenty of long form posts on here, most of which are done through my phone. With an android Swype keyboard it's easy. I don't often use my laptop for UKB at home. I think it's ridiculous to intentionally try to push out mobile device users because your perception is that their replies are less thoughtful. You'll end up in a situation where you don't attract new users because using it on their phone is so clunky that they don't get hooked on the site, they just give up.

[tomtom]

Regardless we'll try to solve the mobile issue as time permits.

[tomtom]

Fuck the romans. What have they ever done for us? 

Well if that's how it is... *logs off and reaches for facebook/twitter/instagram for his fix of climbing gossip/info/entertainment.*

[tomtom]

Fuck the romans. What have they ever done for us? 

Well if that's how it is... *logs off and reaches for facebook/twitter/instagram for his fix of climbing gossip/info/entertainment.*

You're still logged in 

Its almost as if you care.....

[petejh]

Is this all just a ruse to make sure Dense never wants to come back to ukb?

[monkoffunk]

I rarely post from a computer. I tend to read the forum as a source of news/advise from my phone a lot. I don't think that use of mobiles should be considered lesser than use of desktops. These days people use phones like computers. It's the way of the future.

[bigironhorse]

Has anyone else noticed that the unread posts link isn't working properly? I have five threads with new messages on the front page but only four unread on the unread posts page.

 

[andy_e]

I've noticed that the unread posts isn't working either, but that's because there have been no unread posts all day because nobody seems to be posting on here already.

[moose]

Aye... the forum "upgrade" hasn't directly affected me much - as I mainly browse via a laptop - but traffic is evidently greatly reduced, I assume due to the lack of a pleasant mobile interface.  The absence of action here is threatening to make me productive at work!  Presumably forum stability is a necessary aim... but the inadvertant result of tumble weeds blowing through the Marie Celeste makes it seem a poor trade.....I leave this from Harry Lime in the Third Man on the perils of stability: 

"In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."

[webbo]

On my last 3 visits the same post in quality bouldering videos keeps showing as a new post.
I only use my tablet on here these days

[fatboySlimfast]

Wow, i hang out elsewhere for a bit and ukb blanco arrives....

[Nibile]

After a few weeks of the new format I can say that I've lost a lot of interest.
I am a lazy Italian bastard, so I used to check the Karma page first, because I want all the good stuff quick and ready for me. Now that I can't do it anymore I don't feel like scrolling all the threads and posts to see if someone wrote something particularly noteworthy.
It was really a useful feature to have, it pointed you to the really good stuff.
Anyway, just my experience.
Thanks anyway to those who look after the site, I know it must be hard work.

[Hoseyb]

I'm struggling a bit with the new ukb too. For me the most important thing about UKB was the sense of belonging,  to being part of a community that supports our weird little hobby and doesn't take the piss....  Let me rephrase that... Doesn't make you feel shit.

Now, without the last post function I can't see where my friends/ POI are posting, without a karma list I can't find something to make me laugh / feel better about the universe. I only have a phone to view on really as I'm too busy at work,  and my decaying laptop is to crap for anything but firing out blogs once in a blue moon. 

I also miss the narcissism of watching the views rise  in the blogpile.  That and the pics all stretch on the mobile view. 

Hopefully this can all be overcome..

[Johnny Brown]

Forum slow this am.

Spent ten minutes typing a reply to Nik's accounts question, error on posting.

The other threads on the forum updates are not giving me an option to reply - never seen this before. Are they locked?

[dave]

I've had errors when trying to post too. I'm not gonna sit here wasting time trying more than once, or going and deleting cookies every time.

[jwi]

Don't care about anything than a mobile theme/mobile ready design. Not having a mobile ready site is like not backing up a big claim with uncut footage, it's not just done anymore, for a reason.

[Duma]

Pretty sure the other threads are locked, who knows why. Another wonderful feature of the new theme is that it doesn't seem to show that a threads locked anywhere [/sarcasm]

Any news on usable mobile theme?

[nik at work]

Thanks for you efforts JB, have a wad.

[nik at work]

Errrrr, how do I wad someone now?

[slackline]

or going and deleting cookies every time.

Disable cookies for the site completely, although this may mean you have to enter your login details each time (perhaps depends on browser), but if you leave a tab open on your browser and remain logged in anyway that is not a huge inconvenience, particularly if you use a password manager.

Pretty sure the other threads are locked, who knows why.

My guess...

Admins/overlords are sick of hearing the same thing being repeated when they have already indicated that they have someone working on a solution to mobile CSS/theme (albeit likely for free in their spare time so it might take longer than if someone stumped up cash to pay someone to do it).


Current database/cookie issue aside the forum is being updated, albeit slowly, and is more functional (i.e. it works) than when it was continuely crashing, even if the colours are not to your preference (and a solution has already been suggested for those who can be bothered).  I expect very few current posters have ever stumped up any cash donations to the running costs of the site (i.e. server hosting).  I have in the past when costs were covered that way because I valued the site and resources, since it changed ownership that hasn't been asked for though as some advertising has been utilised to help cover the costs (no idea how much Awesome/BMC/HP/VP chuck into the kitty).  As it is those complaining are doing so about a free service that they pay nothing for.  This is not Farcebook with billions of cash to spend on developers to run and maintain the site across a cloud of servers so should not be held to the same standards and repeating the same message doesn't help move towards achieving it.

[dave]

Clearly I'm not going to log in every single time, that's bollocks, it's not 1997, it's just another hurdle to use the site. Surprise surprise, people won't bother.

Similarly people aren't going to bother install custom forum skins or whatever the solution was supposed to be. It's not a hackers forum, you want to attract users not put them off or make them jump through hoops.

It's not a free service, it's run as business with advertising. There is no "service". The only value of UKB is in users' content. Users, the ones who are now not posting due to various hurdles, are the product.

Again, it's not 1997, there are a multitude of other places online people can discuss bouldering, for free, much easier and with a much better user interface. I'm not saying Twitter or Facebook is the best place for it, but people will just take it there if using UKB becomes too difficult. They are already logged into those sites, they can post from their phones painlessly, they don't have to piss about deleting cookies or trying for ten minutes to make a post. Thems the breaks I'm afraid.

[Duma]

So what if they are sick of hearing the same thing - just maybe it indicates that there's something that needs fixing. Locking the thread with no explanation is hardly a sensible way of dealing with issues. Having someone work on it for free in their spare time is a pretty crappy solution - especially as, if my understanding is correct, there are several off the shelf themes that are mobile friendly. The value of this site is entirely driven by the knowledge and interaction of it's users - if their preferences are ignored/sidelined/marginalised it will die, and rightly so. I'll be frustrated and a bit sad if that happens though. The lack of a mobile theme is a big fuck up, whatever habrich thinks.

To put the onus on users to have to delete cookies, login everytime, leave a tab open, write their own code to improve the look etc is ridiculous imo.

[Duma]

edit - what dave said.