[monkoffunk]

It’s the hold Shane is using at 2:43 in this video with left hand. I did same high right foot after him, but I didn’t drop knee so deep, just pushed really hard and went over right hand.

[monkoffunk]

Do you know if it's one of the holds you'd use if you go out left too? In terms of right hand movements only, I went from a little rat crimp on the left wall of the groove to an intermediate on the flowstone sheet to a more obvious lump/horn/bobble thing on top of a bit of the flowstone sheet, and then eventually to a sidepull in a crack.

I tried a new sequence yesterday that felt either as hard as, or a little bit easier, than my old one. It sounds like the hold I pulled off was not part of your beta, and my new beta is closer to yours. Either way it's not any harder than it was!

[monkoffunk]

How are others getting on?

I had my 7th session since November on Fighting Torque yesterday (includes pulling off crux and needing session to work out new beta).

It’s all coming down to one stopper move for me, the ‘new’ crux move. Essentially 12 hand moves through the hard climbing with a difficult clip off the undercuts after move 4 and move 12 being easy. Move 11 is the hardest move on the route for me and keeps spitting me off even though it’s now easy off the rope.

I guess that’s the nature of redpointing though! I’m sure I just need to get there on a nice day and feeling a bit more rested, but still recruited, and it will just go.

Any joy for anyone else?

[monkoffunk]

After reading about Ondra's advice to move on from a project after 10 sessions, I thought I'd take stock of how many sessions I've had on Fighting Torque. Having not specifically logged attempts I used Sharkathon, power club and some videos I took whilst trying to figure out beta to get this:

Prior to Nov 18 I had had few goes. Never done all moves. No real links. Never tried to project, just isolated attempts during other sessions. From UKC comments on other routes it seems I tried it on 17 June 17 but felt ‘unfit’ and had at least a go on 30 May 18 with ‘micro progress’. Possibly other tie ons that I have forgotten.

November 2018: Post exams decided to focus on projecting route. I wanted to climb it the original variant up the groove (consensus 8a post various hold loses), not the alternative way via the arête at a debatable hard 7c/7c+/8a (never tried so no opinion from me!). Both variants are distinct enough in my book to be separately graded.


November 18

1. Nov 20 – Worked out all moves, nice sequence through crux however pulled off crux hold trying move one last time before taking out draws.
2. Nov 26 – Reworked. New sequence with throw across groove. Move was possible and I thought it wasn’t harder than old. Turns out way harder. Very low percentage on redpoint, last hard move, and very different style of move, dynamic throw which seems really far after technical tension-y climbing.

December 18

3. Dec 4 – High point trying to cross under on top of shield before crux move.
4. Dec 6 – New high point both hands on top of shield before crux move.
5. Dec 15 – New high point attempting crux move.

January 19

6. Jan 18 – Impossible to do moves due to wind chill. Sacked early.
7. Jan 28 – Same high point trying crux move.

February 19

8. Feb 21 – Not such a good session. Fell three times at undercuts (pinged off, greasy), only got to high point once to even try crux.
9. Feb 25 – Hot day. One go in sun, off at undercuts. One go late in day after doing other things, powered out at top of shield.

March 19

10. Mar 4  – Best session yet. 5 redpoint attempts. Two of them matching high point, one slighting lower past undercuts. After that Sam, (of after the send fame) figured out some slightly different beta using a tiny crimp I had discounted before. I reworked that section, doing crux several times various different ways (at some power cost I think). Discovered I could use the crimp to make crux much easier, pulling myself over to left. After that, two more redpoint attempts getting to new crux sequence. Both times, hand on final pinch, once almost sticking before foot popped.

So turns out that is 10 sessions! Two of them however were basically write offs without meaningful attempts due to conditions, and with what now seems to be really promising beta I have only had two proper goes.

Perhaps the learning point here is that I am pretty poor at redpointing, and if I had figured out that move a while ago I might have done it already. This is the longest I have ever tried to do something though, so maybe for a first limit project not so bad? Previous personal bests have been 7c in a session, one in two goes, one in five. I certainly think it is worth continuing given the tangible progress. With Shark as the obvious outlier, how many sessions have others spent on projects at their maximum?

[Bradders]

I'm no sport climber, but sounds to me like you ought to stick with it.

[remus]

If you're still making tangible progress (e.g. consistently hitting high point, finding new beta) and (presumably) enjoying it why would you stop?

[Wood FT]

As above, if you’re enjoying it why stop?

What else would you be doing if you parked this project?

[petejh]

how many sessions have others spent on projects at their maximum?

Longest I've spent on a successful outcome at my limit is 10 sessions. I've spent longer on unsuccessful outcomes - Mecca I think I was somewhere up in the teens before getting sick of the drive!

[monkoffunk]

Yeah, definitely still enjoying it! I’ll see how I’m doing another 10 sessions from now then.

[spidermonkey09]

So turns out that is 10 sessions! Two of them however were basically write offs without meaningful attempts due to conditions, and with what now seems to be really promising beta I have only had two proper goes.

Perhaps the learning point here is that I am pretty poor at redpointing, and if I had figured out that move a while ago I might have done it already. This is the longest I have ever tried to do something though, so maybe for a first limit project not so bad? Previous personal bests have been 7c in a session, one in two goes, one in five. I certainly think it is worth continuing given the tangible progress. With Shark as the obvious outlier, how many sessions have others spent on projects at their maximum?

You sound close to me, I'd stick at it! What you describe as being poor at redpointing I would argue is just part of the process; its great finding holds that make the sequence easier late in the day. I spent 17 sessions on Supercool last summer, but as you mention above that is including several 'sessions' where I dogged up it in dreadful conditions and immediately stripped it again. Its not an exact science and so its only really useful up to a point.

[cheque]

if you’re enjoying it why stop?

 

[SA Chris]

Ondra's advice is not necessarily right, I'm sure he advises many things that don't apply to mortals.

[shark]

In terms of days if it gets into double figures then stop counting (quote Nic Sellars)

Do you know anybody else who has tried it or done it since you pulled the crux hold off? it could be a grade harder. 

Given that you are still progressing then if psyched keep going. You’re only on it twice a month, not twice a week. In fact more regular visits will help if you are in a position to do so but be ruthless and don’t go if conditions are likely to be sub par.

In your shoes I’d also be looking at specific training - replica moves that sort of thing. Also use visualisation techniques - Mastermind has excellent advice on this.

[Doylo]

It’s only time to stop if it’s feeling like a real slog and the enjoyments completely gone. Why the number 10?

[monkoffunk]

Oh well, I wasn't planning on stopping, just taking stock of what I had done on it, and given the ongoing progress I don't see a need to stop just yet.

Would be interested to see the source of the Ondra quote though!

I do know a few people who have tried it. Two who have done it before and think its a lot harder now, but they only really put cursory efforts in so understandable it would seem harder.

My last session I tried it with someone who figured out new beta that makes the move much more doable. I think it's really close now. In fact the first time I tried the beta I almost did it quite late in the session (and then my foot popped, see below).

Unfortunately with work and other life commitments I am going every day I get the chance to, I would love to go more!

[Wood FT]

lovely bit of crimpin’

[andy popp]

lovely bit of crimpin’

Great shriek too.

[tomtom]

lovely bit of crimpin’

Great shriek too.

:D I liked that too... a power yelp

[monkoffunk]

A range I didn’t know I had!

[jwi]

After reading about Ondra's advice to move on from a project after 10 sessions, I thought I'd take stock of how many sessions I've had on Fighting Torque.

Bear in mind that Ondra is still in his physical prime age, has never had a serious injury, and – at the time when the advise was given – had never experienced a period of stagnation. For a young climber with plenty potential for quick physical and technical development it simply does not make sense to siege: why siege when you can just wait a few months until you are clearly a better, stronger and fitter climber?

[spidermonkey09]

Bear in mind that Ondra is still in his physical prime age, has never had a serious injury, and – at the time when the advise was given – had never experienced a period of stagnation. For a young climber with plenty potential for quick physical and technical development it simply does not make sense to siege: why siege when you can just wait a few months until you are clearly a better, stronger and fitter climber?

I only think this holds given unlimited time to be honest, even allowing for youth. The constraints of life and work for 'normal people' might necessitate a siege if one is going to climb something near ones limit that is satisfying to them, young or not.

[monkoffunk]

After reading about Ondra's advice to move on from a project after 10 sessions, I thought I'd take stock of how many sessions I've had on Fighting Torque.

Bear in mind that Ondra is still in his physical prime age, has never had a serious injury, and – at the time when the advise was given – had never experienced a period of stagnation. For a young climber with plenty potential for quick physical and technical development it simply does not make sense to siege: why siege when you can just wait a few months until you are clearly a better, stronger and fitter climber?

What are you defining as young?

[jwi]

What are you defining as young?

less than 20-25 years for males for sports, depending on when the growth stops

for women less than 18-23 maybe?

[Smith42]

Fighting Torque looks brilliant, stick with it!

I v long standing issue sending The Bulge at Kilnsey. 
2015 seven days, (was falling off last move but the route started to seep)
2016 two days, (badly injured pulley which need on the crux pocket)
2017 nine days (fell off the last hard move with all bolts clipped on three occasions on two separate days including the hottest day of the year and then the thing seeped again)
2018 no days (struggled to climb anything due to injuries and life stuff)

2019 this is the year!

[monkoffunk]

For those interested I have a very low quality beta video of Fighting Torque with one possible sequence since the hold break in the groove. Edited due to rain on actual ascent.

Of no entertainment value.