[haydn jones]

What are other must do downhill tracks in the peak. Cycled out to the beast today and did that. Was excellent.

[Mark Lloyd]

Hagg Farm, Cave Dale, there used to be a good descent into the village of Roland but I think that might have been altered.
In the White Peak Bakewell Woods is ok, there is some good stuff at Hollingsclough.
But maybe Wharncliffe is calling ?

[haydn jones]

Good suggestions. Think we went up the hagg farm one after the beast to get to the screaming mile

[bigtuboflard]

Edge of the Peak but Devils Elbow and Piper House DH are both very good indeed in Blacka Moor area. Top of the plantation descent is also good for a bit of variety but not much to link it up to afterwards.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Had to give this a thumbs down earlier:



Agreed, amazing looking line, riding, commitment etc, but I find it inexplicable how anyone can take a tractor to the hillside, and cause that much damage in such a beautiful place.

Plenty of Rëd ßull (copied Cheque there  ) advertising in evidence, along with others desperate to endorse the extreme.

 

[User deactivated.]

Had to give this a thumbs down earlier:



Agreed, amazing looking line, riding, commitment etc, but I find it inexplicable how anyone can take a tractor to the hillside, and cause that much damage in such a beautiful place.

Plenty of Rëd ßull (copied Cheque there  ) advertising in evidence, along with others desperate to endorse the extreme.

 

I'm not sure it makes it any better but if this is the ridge at the top of the bike park then it's possibly their own land.

[ferret]

It looks like it was built in a way so they could just put the dirt and turf back. Hopefully this is the case, if done right you'd probably never tell in a year or two.

[petejh]

Popular walker’s paths all over the UK’s hills and mountains will have a greater visual scar then this. Not that that makes it good (or bad) it just puts it in context.

[Ru]

Popular walker’s paths all over the UK’s hills and mountains will have a greater visual scar then this. Not that that makes it good (or bad) it just puts it in context.

But there's a different balance of harm/benefit when tracks have been created by thousands of walkers vs a track made for a drinks marketing video.

[SamT]

There's barely a wooded slope on the east side of the peak that isn't starting to receive the attention of mtb'rs.

I can't be hypocritical,.. I'm heading out tonight for a few laps of lady cannings, maybe a loop out over houndkirk somewhere, or maybe redmires side of things. 

However, on all my recent rambles and wonderings..

 I have noticed lots of lines everywhere, and I don't mean mtbrs using footpaths, I mean newly created lines directly down hill through the trees.

Wharncliffe side is a complete maze of lines now.
Certinaly the slopes of Derwent/Ladybower are heading the same way.

Wyming brook seemed to have quite a few lines starting to appear.
I've seen stuff around grindleford.

Couple of years ago I was in the Forest of Dean, Long Mind, Wye valley and a similar thing is happening there.  God knows what North and Mid Wales is like now.

It's all a bit un-seen at the moment, but I fear its only going to get worse. 

There seems to be no governing body, no rules, only a few facebook group type things (Ride Sheffield for instance) who do their best, but it just seems to be a free for all that's going un checked.

Maybe its not a problem. 

With modern lights, the peak is now open 24/7.  Its hilarious driving back over .. runners, bikers, boulderers, lead climbers even.. stanage was lit up like the ICI plant at runcorn the other day. 

 

[petejh]

Popular walker’s paths all over the UK’s hills and mountains will have a greater visual scar then this. Not that that makes it good (or bad) it just puts it in context.

But there's a different balance of harm/benefit when tracks have been created by thousands of walkers vs a track made for a drinks marketing video.

I’m uncertain how much harm will have been created here. As pointed out, the turf would grow back quickly. If it has just been done for that shoot then it won’t wear in and become a permanent feature. While I’d be close to the last person in line to applaud doing anything like this to promote any commercial interest in mtn biking, or climbing, I can see it might not be a big deal here, compared to a say a national body that’s chosen to purposely encourage a whole caterpillar culture of people walking up mountains or climbing on crags, with commercial growth as one of its incentives.
 

The UK’s a small place with a lot of people wanting to enjoy themselves in the outdoors. As usual it’s all about managing and minimising the damage we do. As soon as commercial incentives become involved the management gets more difficult.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

..it’s all about managing and minimising the damage we do. As soon as commercial incentives become involved the management gets more difficult.

Sorry to cut the quote Pete, and I hope I haven't lost context in doing so.

However, that's the issue isn't it. The "freedom of the hills" is a myth. Enjoyment and consequence becomes the false choice, used to justify many things - rather than responsibility and consequence.

What's being endorsed here is "the hit". It's what sells things.

Sam:

"With modern lights, the peak is now open 24/7.  Its hilarious driving back over .. runners, bikers, boulderers, lead climbers even.. stanage was lit up like the ICI plant at runcorn the other day."

I did laugh  but you raise a really important point.

[36chambers]

I have noticed lots of lines everywhere, and I don't mean mtbrs using footpaths, I mean newly created lines directly down hill through the trees.

I've noticed two lines that have popped up at Caley over the past year or so. One next to the Two Squirrels boulder and one in the open hillside between Zoo York and To Be Is Not To Bolt. I hope they don't get any ideas of doing something with the boulders!

[tomtom]

I recon I’ve seen MtB on the Pennine way walk in to Blackstone maybe 5 or 6 times in total over the last few years.

This year - every time. And not just the odd one. Where the track isn’t paved with flags it’s become a right mess.

[Ballsofcottonwool]

I've noticed two lines that have popped up at Caley over the past year or so. One next to the Two Squirrels boulder and one in the open hillside between Zoo York and To Be Is Not To Bolt. I hope they don't get any ideas of doing something with the boulders!

Only a matter of time before someone talented enough spots a line and rides it, lots of riding over rocks in Chris Akrigg's latest video.

[andy_e]

Chris Akrigg has already used the rocks at Earl before...

[Plattsy]

"I didn't know it was a footpath"
"There's no sign saying I can't"
"I've been riding here since before you were born"
"What about the damage climbers/ fell runners/ walkers do to paths/ rocks"
"MTBers started the mend our mountains campaign"
"It's a dead end argument"
"Those scratches were caused by crampons"
"Walkers cause the same level of damage as MTBers"

Just some of the responses from talking to MTBers about damage they cause. There are occasionally riders who are more engaging, listen and genuinely don't know about rights of way/countryside code. A lot seem to not be interested.

Both Ride Sheffield and Peak District MTB Advocacy group refused to come have a look at some of the damage caused by MTBers around Burbage Valley.

[Paul B]

It's worth remembering that there are idiots in all walks of life (MTBers, roadies, climbers etc.). I came across a group of ramblers who were walking up the red "long way down" cycle route (which is clearly signed as unsuitable for walkers) at Gisburn Forest.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

"I didn't know it was a footpath"
"There's no sign saying I can't"
"I've been riding here since before you were born"
"What about the damage climbers/ fell runners/ walkers do to paths/ rocks"
"MTBers started the mend our mountains campaign"
"It's a dead end argument"
"Those scratches were caused by crampons"
"Walkers cause the same level of damage as MTBers"

Just some of the responses from talking to MTBers about damage they cause. There are occasionally riders who are more engaging, listen and genuinely don't know about rights of way/countryside code. A lot seem to not be interested.

Both Ride Sheffield and Peak District MTB Advocacy group refused to come have a look at some of the damage caused by MTBers around Burbage Valley.

That's a shame - re Burbage etc. A missed opportunity.

We've all got to try to be more aware of impact, and in that regard, some of those standard responses are understandable, and quite correct - though it misses the point.

I think it's too easy to label others as idiots though. (Paul B - nice little video btw) We can all behave like it, and I think it takes the focus off what's going on, creating an Us/Them mentality.

(There's a great track  )

[Stabbsy]

I recon I’ve seen MtB on the Pennine way walk in to Blackstone maybe 5 or 6 times in total over the last few years.

This year - every time. And not just the odd one. Where the track isn’t paved with flags it’s become a right mess.

Tom - I don't want to draw incorrect conclusions from your post, so I'll ask the question first. Are you suggesting the mess on the path is down to the MTBs or are you just making 2 completely separate points? Personal view would be that, while MTBs probably make more damage per unit (they're heavier), walkers/runners make more damage overall (more numerous). There are similar paths in the Peak that are turning into a right mess and, yes, the tyre tracks are often the most noticeable lines in the mud, but I'm unconvinced that they are necessarily the main culprit - particularly when it comes to the paths spreading in width as people try to avoid the bogs. It's more an issue of wet ground and large volumes of people. I can think of a few local paths I don't use at this time of year (unless fully frozen), because I know I'll be contributing to the problem.

"I didn't know it was a footpath"

The whole footpath/bridleway thing (as I understand it) was down to designations made years ago and never reconsidered. The split should really be based on suitability not history. Yes, there are footpaths unsuitable for bikes, but there are plenty that are suitable. There are a lot of amazing paths out there that could be used by bikes with good surfaces, good visibility, etc. and everyone could happily co-exist side by side. Taking a local example, the footpath over Burbage Moor linking Houndkirk Road to the Green Drive under Burbage is perfect for bikes and you see plenty of folks on it. Maybe they're not meant to be there, but they aren't doing much harm (and certainly no different to the walkers and runners that use it).

The other side of this are the paths that are unsuitable. Again it's a local example, but I'd argue that bikes shouldn't be using the main Porter Clough and Limb Valley paths in Sheffield - too busy, poor visibility and easy to go at a speed where you could cause damage in a collision. I've met plenty of bikers coming the opposite way when I've been running up them, but I can usually hear what's coming and get out of the way. But what about the old dears, people with dogs/kids, pushchairs? It wouldn't take much for someone/thing small to be below an MTBer's sightline, particularly if they're moving at speed.

Both Ride Sheffield and Peak District MTB Advocacy group refused to come have a look at some of the damage caused by MTBers around Burbage Valley.

It's a shame they won't engage as Dave says, but as climbers we'd need to hold our hands up to a whole lot of damage that we've done in the Burbage Valley. What have we done about the Partheon flake, the blown out runner placements, the destroyed footholds from people climbing in damp conditions? Walkers would be in the same boat. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, etc.

Just for context, I'm a runner not a biker, but feel like MTBs get a lot of unnecessary stick at times.

[Paul B]

Just for context, I'm a runner not a biker, but feel like MTBs get a lot of unnecessary stick at times.

I think in reality plenty of people don't fall into one category.

Paul B - nice little video btw

It's not mine Dave but Gisburn is very close to home (a bit less so now but still not that far). I include myself in the "idiot" line at times, I can certainly remember behaving poorly at the crag (swearing loudly when falling) without any concern given for other people nearby.

[tomtom]

@stabbsy yes - I was saying I think increased mtb traffic has caused increased erosion in some places on that path. Notably series of narrow runnels semi parallel on or with the main path...

Though whilst climbing up there I’ve seen (twice) knobheads on quad bikes going along the path and down the Roman road. (Not farmers..)

Glad to see someone has been putting up small (15cm by 15cm) “be nice to each other” signs with a silhouette of a biker Walker and horse rider on the footpath posts. Good idea.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Me too Paul, occasionally! re the swearing, or just being louder than necessary.

I think climbing can make places a real mess - think of the Plantation at Stanage on a busy autumn day. Echoing Stabbsy's post, there's the throngs of people, the noise, the erosion to ground as well as rock, the chalk.

However, this isn't about defending and equivocating, other than to say "Yes, we all need to do something about it".

[m.cooke.1421]

Bridleways are also for horses as well as bikes. Ideally a new classification of access is set up which would allow bikes on some footpaths but not horses rather than redesignating some footpaths as bridleways. There are also loads of metalled tracks about that would be great to go out cycling on but aren't PRoWs. I would love it if some of these were opened up for cyclists.

I think the problem of poaching of footpaths over open moorland is that people are travelling over it when it's not 'in condition'. It's going to cause damage whether walking or cycling if the ground is piss wet through. When it's dry, cycling and walking are going to cause much less damage. Surely banning cyclists all the time isn't the solution.

Bombing down slopes in woods so steep that the back wheel is locked up dragging everything underneath tyre with it is more of an issue. After just a couple of runs this leaves exposed churned up soil.

[SA Chris]

Chris Akrigg has already used the rocks at Earl before...

Yep, his descent of Earl Riser at 4:27 is impressive