I had recently been considering if membership was something I should get
Does this mean we’re not buying Kilnsey?
Perhaps. But it's a transaction non the less and if the cost of the transaction is set by the body at a price which I don't feel the transaction is close to worthwhile then why would I choose to do it?I can appreciate that something is better than nothing, but realistically if you're asking me to spend money on that something, it has to reflect enough of my needs otherwise I'll look elsewhere or consider being a free rider in the situation because I don't feel the alternative is good enough.On a separate note my partner has just said she feels that the advertising is sub optimal for BMC membership, she's worked at 2 walls, had BMC membership herself and still feels she doesn't know what they're doing/how they're benefiting her needs.
The major drivers behind my decision were based on what has happened SINCE the CCPG review has been delivered to the board i.e.There is effectively an open letter from 38 parents declaring the plans for the English talent pathway as *pointless*.There is effectively an open letter from the commercial elite coaches declaring 2023 selection events as *not fit for purpose*.Several children have incurred injuries at this year’s selection events due to GB Climbing NOT following guidelines.None of the above are being adequately reported by GB Climbing to CCPG and ultimately to the board.Cost overruns within GB Climbing due to simple mistakes such as spending £27k on hire cars in Innsbruck despite public transport being free and then expecting to recover such fees from athletes.Despite the additional funding from SE and UKS GB Climbing have then selected far fewer athletes this year into the team & squads as compared to last year (117 in 2023 down from 163 in 2022).If you look at the most recent European competition events then GB Climbing is this year fielding on average one athlete per category compared to other major European countries fielding three of four despite the fact that athletes and parents entirely fund themselves. Until last month the safeguarding documentation was NINE years out of date and still quoted Rob Adie as the contact.Parents & athletes continue to live in fear of speaking out. Retired athletes have spoken out: https://www.facebook.com/100044639040139/posts/501441251353839/?d=n Coaches have spoken out: https://www.climbingcoachingconversations.com/post/climbing-is-not-swimming Partners are clearly not happy: https://www.climbscotland.net/move-on-up/competitions/ycs---scottish-talent-squad-eligibility-statement.The most recent proposals to take CCPG forward now suggest REDUCING the number of members on CCPG to the extent that there would only be one person with real world climbing experience that being the rep from Climb Scotland (Jamie). The most recent proposals to take CCPG forward also suggest the complete REMOVAL of the ABC rep despite the fact that Freddie is currently leading on the 2024 selection policy in order to overcome some of the recently incurred problems. It would therefore be fair to assume that ABC are not happy. Much of this is not covered by the CCPG review but the review pretty much predicted the outcome and it is now unravelling. In summary, it had reached a point where, as a member of the Board sitting on CCPG I was in a position where I could potentially be legally responsible for something that was clearly not being managed properly and NOT being reported to the board and I HAD to resign.
I am a member, largely because of access. But I do also like that they put money into supporting comp athletes
Quote from: Wellsy on July 07, 2023, 01:59:54 pmI am a member, largely because of access. But I do also like that they put money into supporting comp athletesInteresting divide on the comp thing. I share Yetix's view that them supporting comps makes me even less interested in a membership. Comps are just something I couldn't care less about and place no value in. That's not suggesting i'm right and you're wrong, obviously.
Quote from: Teaboy on July 07, 2023, 01:29:00 pmDoes this mean we’re not buying Kilnsey?I heard a very interesting rumour about the kilnsey sale recently. If it’s to be believed it’s been sold to an interesting buyer…. Not the bmc!
This is no slight on any of you as individuals but it does make me roll my eyes when I read you aren't members, for all the reasons Shark and Remus listed and more. There is no alternative to the BMC, access would be miles worse without them. Ita letting perfect be the enemy of good for me. To reiterate none of the above is meant personally.
letting perfect be the enemy of good for me
Quote from: spidermonkey09 on July 07, 2023, 02:08:14 pmThis is no slight on any of you as individuals but it does make me roll my eyes when I read you aren't members, for all the reasons Shark and Remus listed and more. There is no alternative to the BMC, access would be miles worse without them. Ita letting perfect be the enemy of good for me. To reiterate none of the above is meant personally.There's only so many causes you can spend your money on. Take the example I used earlier of organic food. I'll make the assumption that you care about animal welfare, environmental impacts and/or the ongoing viability of the soil for growing food, perhaps more so than access to crags. But if you're anything like me, then I imagine not every single food item you buy is organic either? I'm not suggesting that I can't afford BMC membership, but there's a lot of things I care about that I can afford and still don't pay for. This is hypocritical behavior, but it's universal too. Eye rolling seems a little naive.
I don't have BMC membership for the good of others, so unlike Liam and yetix I don't view it as a charitable donation or like buying the fair trade option - I view it as self interest!
Things not good from the GB Climbing side either. Carl has clarified his reasons for leaving.(NB the CCPG is the Climbing Competitions Performance Group which oversees GB Climbing and reports to the Board and the ABC is the Association of British Climbing Walls - effectively a trade body.)Quote from: Carl Spencer on BMC Watch on FacebookCost overruns within GB Climbing due to simple mistakes such as spending £27k on hire cars in Innsbruck despite public transport being free and then expecting to recover such fees from athletes.
Cost overruns within GB Climbing due to simple mistakes such as spending £27k on hire cars in Innsbruck despite public transport being free and then expecting to recover such fees from athletes.
I am a BMC member, and for me their role in lobbying for and being a contact point for negotiations regarding access is my principal reason for remaining so. I’ve no issue with the BMC spending money on competition climbing, but I often wonder: what proportion of BMC members see themselves as principally indoor/competition climbers? (not a rhetorical question, I genuinely don’t know if this has ever been surveyed).
Quote from: shark on July 07, 2023, 02:00:53 pmThings not good from the GB Climbing side either. Carl has clarified his reasons for leaving.(NB the CCPG is the Climbing Competitions Performance Group which oversees GB Climbing and reports to the Board and the ABC is the Association of British Climbing Walls - effectively a trade body.)Quote from: Carl Spencer on BMC Watch on FacebookCost overruns within GB Climbing due to simple mistakes such as spending £27k on hire cars in Innsbruck despite public transport being free and then expecting to recover such fees from athletes.How long were they in Innsbruck to spend £27k on hire cars Yetix, if it was a US situation where there was an Access Fund with comps separate, would you be happier to throw some cash in their direction then?
I’m amazed to learn that money would be diverted from access (the absolute prime purpose of the BMC as far as I’m concerned) to cover comp climbing’s shortfall.
Quote from: Liamhutch89 on July 07, 2023, 02:41:03 pmQuote from: spidermonkey09 on July 07, 2023, 02:08:14 pmThis is no slight on any of you as individuals but it does make me roll my eyes when I read you aren't members, for all the reasons Shark and Remus listed and more. There is no alternative to the BMC, access would be miles worse without them. Ita letting perfect be the enemy of good for me. To reiterate none of the above is meant personally.There's only so many causes you can spend your money on. Take the example I used earlier of organic food. I'll make the assumption that you care about animal welfare, environmental impacts and/or the ongoing viability of the soil for growing food, perhaps more so than access to crags. But if you're anything like me, then I imagine not every single food item you buy is organic either? I'm not suggesting that I can't afford BMC membership, but there's a lot of things I care about that I can afford and still don't pay for. This is hypocritical behavior, but it's universal too. Eye rolling seems a little naive.I remain pretty convinced that if you're a keen climber at any level it is shooting yourself in the foot not to be a BMC member. As Barrows says its a self interest thing as much as anything else. I do not see it as a donation. Organic food is a poor comparison for me. This is a climbing forum and many of those posting on it are complete obsessives about climbing. Seems incredibly counterintuitive not to be a member of the body that ensures access to crags even if you have issues with their governance and operations.