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Changing the BMC (Read 140285 times)

andy_e

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#450 Re: Changing the BMC
November 26, 2020, 08:46:33 pm
Fucking hell Jim, best of luck...

danm

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#451 Re: Changing the BMC
November 26, 2020, 10:13:52 pm
It's a dirty job, but someone's got to do it...

Good effort for getting involved, our volunteers really are our best asset.

petejh

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#452 Re: Changing the BMC
November 26, 2020, 10:17:12 pm
It's a dirty job, but someone's got to do it...

Good effort for getting involved, our volunteers really are our best asset.

No, Tremadog is.
But you're a close second Spider.

shark

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#453 Re: Changing the BMC
January 20, 2021, 11:22:00 am
3 new BMC Directors have been registered on the Companies House database. No doubt an article explaining their roles will appear shortly.

The proposed changes to the articles of association have been posted up and there is an online open forum next Thursday at 7pm. Details all here: https://thebmc.co.uk/changes-BMC-articles-association

shark

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#454 Re: Changing the BMC
February 25, 2021, 01:04:36 pm
Open Forum again tonight at 7pm looking at Area Terms of Reference, changes to National Council and upcoming voting at AGM

https://thebmc.co.uk/board-update--invite-to-open-forum-governance-changes-in-the-bmc

galpinos

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#455 Re: Changing the BMC
February 25, 2021, 03:09:33 pm
Is there anything in there re proxy voting/disclosure of proxy voting/conflict of interest with proxy votes being held by a member of the NomComm etc.

As I remember it, the voting issues stemmed from the opacity of the proxy system and the fact the President, by dint of holding the all huge member of proxies, could pick who they wanted, whilst also having been on the Nomination Committee? None of the info I can find to be discussed tonight (see you there Simon) seems to cover/solve this issue.


galpinos

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#457 Re: Changing the BMC
February 25, 2021, 06:07:55 pm
 Cheers Simon, didn't spot that last time.

Offwidth

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#458 Re: Changing the BMC
February 26, 2021, 10:55:49 am
Be careful what you wish for.  The BMC has become a political obsession for some and all these 'democratic improvements' although certainly good in healthy times, currently very much benefit those politically minded members the most. If you look at the voting data from the 2019 AGM where so much concern was presented here, the candidates where the most controversy was expressed (about discretionary proxies) almost certainly came bottom in the actual membership votes (JR for certain and Gron almost certain). This latest proposed change will allow the political minded to create more 'hot air' and  more effectively add pressure on the AGM chair to vote their way (and given the two opposing factional positions, this means no result is going to escape criticism and independent winners will probably be attacked from both sides... all in all a very hard job to honestly apply discretionary proxies on behalf of the membership just got harder). The change I want is better education so that discretionary proxies, become a small minority.

All the recent political problems in the BMC relate to factional squabbling and it won't go away as the more 'traditionalist' wing remain a long way from the ideas of the 'business like' wing and neither side really represent the average access focussed membership, let alone the wider community. Talk to volunteers unconnected to factions who did try to represent the ordinary membership (say Council area reps) about what they feel about continuing in the midst of these factional squabbles.

With all the fuss that has occured online about BMC matters in recent years the biggest changes that smells bad to me in democratic terms barely raised metaphorical public forum eyebrows. The previous Chair was a very experienced, hard working and straightforward guy, who demonstrated a clear willingness to try to act on wider member views. Almost no one seems to have noticed that his removal could be regarded as an effective Board coup from July 2020 (read the July minutes). Nor thought much upon the fact that those who win power in such circumstances control the message. The Chair became a problem seemingly as he insisted on process in dealing with a lot of internal problems at a very busy time. The investigation that catalysed the July meeting, and that the Chair was supposedly blocking, came to almost nothing (other than of course majorly shifting Board power). Also near the top of that list of problems was both opposing factions were unhappy with the CEO, so it's no great surprise that once the old Chair had gone the CEO moved out sideways. Unfortunately no one can keep both factions happy at the same time...  so the next political obsessions take precedence and already the new chair and acting CEO are being grumbled about from some of the usual suspects. Acceptable standards of behaviour in governance positions simply have to be taken much more seriously.

Governance in a membership organisation is supposed to be fairly and legally enabling of what most members want, not an industry in itself and especially not a means to minority power grabs. How many are really listening to what the large majority of members are saying  so the BMC can focus on what matters most for most of its members. Governance compromise between political factions takes time and rarely leads to simple efficient member centric solutions... messy political compromise is unfortunately where we might well seem to be heading.


Oldmanmatt

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#459 Re: Changing the BMC
February 26, 2021, 11:03:33 am
One of the great (and worst) aspects of social media and the internet, is the ability of the “anonymous poster/mole” to blow a quite loud whistle on dodgy practices, naming names and releasing details.
Quite surprising we haven’t had a BMC ‘rebel staffer”.

Offwidth

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#460 Re: Changing the BMC
February 26, 2021, 12:24:10 pm
Is it any wonder when staff who stand up to bad behaviour end up with unfair and barely disguised public attack in resignation statements (having done nothing wrong in any internal disciplinary terms). That such a letter still sits on the website is a blight on both good governance and duty of care for staff.

shark

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#461 Re: Changing the BMC
February 26, 2021, 01:19:06 pm
Is it any wonder when staff who stand up to bad behaviour end up with unfair and barely disguised public attack in resignation statements (having done nothing wrong in any internal disciplinary terms). That such a letter still sits on the website is a blight on both good governance and duty of care for staff.

Which resignation statement / letter are you referring to?

shark

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#462 Re: Changing the BMC
February 26, 2021, 01:25:48 pm
One of the great (and worst) aspects of social media and the internet, is the ability of the “anonymous poster/mole” to blow a quite loud whistle on dodgy practices, naming names and releasing details.
Quite surprising we haven’t had a BMC ‘rebel staffer”.

What type of dodgy practices do you believe a staff member has reason to blow a whistle about? There aren't any that I'm aware of. 

Edit: Or was that the point you were making to Offwidth - the reason no one has blown a whistle is because there is nothing to blow a whistle about?
« Last Edit: February 26, 2021, 01:57:24 pm by shark »

Oldmanmatt

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#463 Re: Changing the BMC
February 26, 2021, 02:02:35 pm
One of the great (and worst) aspects of social media and the internet, is the ability of the “anonymous poster/mole” to blow a quite loud whistle on dodgy practices, naming names and releasing details.
Quite surprising we haven’t had a BMC ‘rebel staffer”.

What type of dodgy practices do you believe a staff member has reason to blow a whistle about? There aren't any that I'm aware of.

Ha ha ha.

No clue, there might not be any.
I’m just “amused” by the infighting and silliness going on. The organisation will fold or at least, experience a significant decline in membership and support if they carry on.
Constant hints at dirty deeds and  Machiavellian goings on, loaded resignation letters, secret proxy votes that sway most decisions (in the internet era? Really?) and so on and so forth.
It’s all a bit Eastenders, isn’t it?
Tragic, not really entertaining, dull and unrepresentative of most people’s needs and expectations.

The “Handforth Council” of UK Sports governance. Where’s Jackie Weaver when you need her, eh?

Edit to more clearly respond to Shark’s edit....

Yes, not really attacking Offwidth, per se, just wishing a little “put up or shut up” would occur. I won’t be paying membership again until this crap stops.

Ps:
It’s 2021, there are clear governance models to follow in every major sport and most minor ones. This isn’t a “Gentleman’s climbing and social club for the right sort of people” anymore.
 
« Last Edit: February 26, 2021, 02:07:52 pm by Oldmanmatt »

shark

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#464 Re: Changing the BMC
February 26, 2021, 02:39:27 pm
Ha ha ha.

No clue, there might not be any.
I’m just “amused” by the infighting and silliness going on. The organisation will fold or at least, experience a significant decline in membership and support if they carry on.
Constant hints at dirty deeds and  Machiavellian goings on, loaded resignation letters, secret proxy votes that sway most decisions (in the internet era? Really?) and so on and so forth.
It’s all a bit Eastenders, isn’t it?
Tragic, not really entertaining, dull and unrepresentative of most people’s needs and expectations.

The “Handforth Council” of UK Sports governance. Where’s Jackie Weaver when you need her, eh?

My sense is that whatever the infighting was about and between whom before it doesn't appear to be ongoing now.

I'm not aware of two distinct factions acting in concert against each other. Maybe I'm not close enough to the action. There does seem to me to be a collective consensus and willingness by the majority of those involved in the politics (ODG, National Council, the Board and individuals participating in the Open Forums) to make the BMC more professionally run in alignment with comparable national bodies.

Most ordinary members I think would be generally happy that this is happening in the background but unhappy that the organisation at the top has become far too inward looking for far too long as a consequence. Hopefully when the ODG activities have been crunched and implemented then minds and time are freed up to become more outward looking to advance the interests of climbers and hillwalkers.   

Offwidth

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#465 Re: Changing the BMC
February 27, 2021, 11:58:19 am
I've made my points. The problems in the BMC came from infighting and the new proxy situation could inflame that if members are not educated on the importance of directing any proxies rather than giving discresion. The infighting has flared up again or I would share most of your optimism (as I did until recently)  and I wouldn't have posted. Members being exceedingly unhappy with the prospect of more ructions might be an incentive for the individuals to calm down. If some were very unhappy with the previous Chair and are now unhappy with the new Chair, maybe the problem lies with them.

mrjonathanr

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#466 Re: Changing the BMC
February 27, 2021, 12:07:59 pm
Long-standing ordinary member. I have no idea what is going on. I have no idea what has happened previously, apart from arguments. I have no interest in finding out.

What I do think is
1 the BMC should be directing energy towards access and conservation
2 this petty nonsense impedes its role. Is the organisation losing relevance to normal climbers?

shark

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#467 Re: Changing the BMC
February 27, 2021, 05:07:50 pm
Long-standing ordinary member. I have no idea what is going on. I have no idea what has happened previously, apart from arguments. I have no interest in finding out.

What I do think is
1 the BMC should be directing energy towards access and conservation
2 this petty nonsense impedes its role. Is the organisation losing relevance to normal climbers?

Access and Conservation has if anything been internally strengthened with Dave Turnbull now focussed solely in this area and to a large extent Access is largely driven by local reps with head office providing support.

The conservation aspect is an area I think that needs to remain specifically relevant to climbers and hillwalkers on projects where the BMC can make measurable impacts as opposed to nebulous global climate projects.

I think the organisation is relevant to normal climbers if by that you mean outdoor boulderers, crag climbers and mountaineers. It is less relevant to indoor climbers and hillwalkers though looking at ways improve its offering here.

tomtom

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#468 Re: Changing the BMC
February 27, 2021, 05:16:51 pm
Problem is (speaking now as a member) it seems to now be an organisation of which we only seem to hear about it’s internal machinations and wrangles.

Instead of hearing about what it (presumably) should be doing. Eg Helping climbing stuff.

Feels a bit like it’s disappeared into the vortex (or up it’s own arse some might say) of how it’s run and who’s running it.

mrjonathanr

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#469 Re: Changing the BMC
February 27, 2021, 07:18:38 pm
Thanks Shark. Sorry if I was unclear. The constant squabbling and committee shenanigans makes the organisation appear to have lost its way, whatever the reality.

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#470 Re: Changing the BMC
February 27, 2021, 08:52:05 pm
I think we need a virtual BMC where people can fantasize about running an organisation how they think it should be run - and have an actual BMC that gets on with promoting having fun in the outdoors, sorting out access issues and all that stuff that makes a positive difference to people's lives.

shark

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#471 Re: Changing the BMC
February 27, 2021, 09:00:01 pm
This might not be that far from the reality with everything happening on zoom.

Alex, pass me the blue pill.

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#472 Re: Changing the BMC
February 28, 2021, 09:23:28 am
I think we need a virtual BMC where people can fantasize about running an organisation how they think it should be run - and have an actual BMC that gets on with promoting having fun in the outdoors, sorting out access issues and all that stuff that makes a positive difference to people's lives.

To an extent that's what's been happening over the last year. The staff and key volunteers that do stuff other than the politics of governance have been pretty amazing given they are working in a national crisis with added pressure from the Board ructions. The relationships with funding  partners are mostly good, especially MT.

The functional problems were exaggerated to suit political positions. The old CEO simply wasn't doing a bad job but some key players on both sides wanted him gone. Yet he had almost no training to deal with the new style role nor any formally agreed performance management system.  When the BMC formed a new company structure a whole bunch of immediate changes should have happened  (including a new financial accounting system, senior executive training for new governance arrangements, modern policy for Board behaviour....greivance policies etc). By July 2020 the political players decided the very experienced Chair had to go, after allegedly delaying a complicated investigation structure, that probably should never have happend.

It seems to me that after all this if the political players now have problems with the new Chair and new acting CEO it's them who need to calm the fuck down (and work with issues), or go, for the sake of the organisation. So far the organisation (staff and key non governance volunteers) have tolerated this but that generosity won't last for ever. There is a good ongoing plan that should fix the governance issues and the additional executive support that should have happened from day one is now in place. As much as I'm disgusted with the way David L acted and blanket attacked the whole Board, he is probably right that the lack of senior non exec governance experience was behind all this. Normal non execs disagree but they keep that on a professional level... robust debate is vital for good governance but endless assassination plots that would make Shakespeare blush are not.


shark

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#473 Re: Changing the BMC
February 28, 2021, 02:34:23 pm
Who are these “political players”? (Board members, NC members or ordinary Members?) and what issues do they have with the new Chair and temporary CEO? - is it that they aren’t getting on with ODG changes quickly enough?

galpinos

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#474 Re: Changing the BMC
March 01, 2021, 09:14:44 am
Offwidth, I know you are more "in the know" than the average membner but these rants are doing no-one, especially the BMC any good.

For those* who seem to believe that the BMC is some inwards looking petty political fetish club, let me put your mind at rest.

I've been to the last two/three ORG style web meetings. The first one was very robust, heated and pretty bad with the President coming in for some personal abuse. However, the next two were REALLY well run, effective and seemed to really get things moving. (Shark was there so he might have a different point of view). I've no idea who or what these evil forces/factions/people are that are moving against the current set up but they've not popped their heads up in any meetings I've been to! Things are definitely moving in the right direction.

My day to day involvement is with the Tech Committee and that is going from strength to strength, with a new chair and fresh(ish) new faces that have really embraced the new way of doing things and have a decent schedule of work for this calendar year despite the financial constraints.

Anecdotally, I also bumped into a BMC staffer walking home from the park and they were very enthusiastic about the new (temporary) CEO so from where I stand, thinks look pretty bright!

*tomtom/lagerstarfish/mrjonathanr

 

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