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Video rigs (Read 8836 times)

jfdm

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Video rigs
April 25, 2017, 09:38:50 pm
Just wondering what the Steven Spielberg's on here are using to create their videos?

Bit of a newbie regard this, made short climbing movie from phone clips using iMovie at the weekend which I really enjoyed putting together. I will put it in the none quality section if I ever publish it!

At work(school) have videos of completed art work with view to publish either to YouTube or school website.

So options PC/Mac, iMovie/Premier/Final Cut Pro. Does it matter for any of these?
Just thinking about ease of use, value for money, limitations etc.
Any help greatfully received
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 10:11:38 pm by jfdm »

turnipturned

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#1 Re: Video rigs
April 26, 2017, 08:12:45 am
I used to edit on Final Cut Pro but about two months ago I switched to premier and never looked back.

Depends what you want to do, I think FCPX is one of the easiest to learn and pick up, however it's pretty limiting, especially with audio and colour correction. The problem I ran into was that using FCPX, restricted you to mac, which are expensive and often not powerful enough to deal with 4K, hi bit footage.

Premier is good, bit more complicated to use but if you have used ps, ai or indes it's quite intuitive. Colour correction is sooo much better, however, I guess if you were serious about colour correction you would use divinci resolve.

Hope that helps, just my fairly limited experience.


andy_e

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#2 Re: Video rigs
April 26, 2017, 09:30:02 am
I set my laptop up to dual-boot with Ubuntu, which is free, and now use Kdenlive, which is also free, and simple to use but powerful enough to deal with everything I throw at it so far.

36chambers

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#3 Re: Video rigs
April 26, 2017, 10:14:56 am
I set my laptop up to dual-boot with Ubuntu, which is free, and now use Kdenlive, which is also free, and simple to use but powerful enough to deal with everything I throw at it so far.

Still waiting on PArchives volume four :popcorn:

cheque

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#4 Re: Video rigs
April 26, 2017, 10:20:10 am
I use Final Cut and Logic. Works fine for me.



andy_e

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#5 Re: Video rigs
April 26, 2017, 10:28:34 am
Still waiting on PArchives volume four :popcorn:

It nearly got started whilst I was in Argentina... I think you've done everything on it!

jfdm

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#6 Re: Video rigs
April 26, 2017, 01:14:54 pm
Premier is good, bit more complicated to use but if you have used ps, ai or indes it's quite intuitive. Colour correction is sooo much better, however, I guess if you were serious about colour correction you would use divinci resolve.
Thanks everybody for getting touch. As I mentioned in my post just thinking about dipping my toe in the water and thinking long term. Might need to save up and get new computer or laptop alongside software.

At school have PC and at home a pretty old MacBook Air, just doing a bit of editing at weekend caused it to heat up and with fans booming, sound like an aeroplane taking off.
I have really old version of adobe creative suite at home/school this doesn't include premier.
Use PS a lot and have a little understand of ai and indesign. They aren't the easiest things to learn. Ai I still can't really fathom.
As teacher can get adobe creative cloud on good monthly deal.
Prem from what understand doesn't run well on Mac, whereas Final Cut doesn't work on PC. Suppose I need to investigate things a bit further. One of the regulars at wall makes pro films, I will try and pick his brains next time I see him.
Thanks once again everybody any further insights greatfully appreciated regarding hardware/software mix for editing.

Paul B

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#7 Re: Video rigs
April 26, 2017, 08:18:51 pm
I always found Sony Vegas to be fairly intuitive but haven't dabbled for a few years now.

lagerstarfish

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#8 Re: Video rigs
April 26, 2017, 08:36:35 pm
I actually paid money for Vegas Pro 13  when Magix took over from Sony and offered it to me for 150 including an upgrade to 14 - I assume this was due to my involvement with Sony's forums as a Vegas 7 user and Sony camera owner a long time ago

not sure I'd ever pay full whack for Vegas Pro, but the less expensive Vegas Movie Studio series of editing programs use the same sort of layout, so worth looking at if you want to be legit

like Paul B I found the Vegas interface pretty intuitive - I'm more inclined towards logic and analytical thought and am not really an art or creativity type of dude

lagerstarfish

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#9 Re: Video rigs
April 26, 2017, 08:39:32 pm
oh - if your machine is a bit inadequate, investigate whether you can do proxy editing; using low res proxy files for editing and then put it in the freezer whilst rendering the final high res version

not as big a pain in the arse as it sounds once you get with the beat

jfdm

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#10 Re: Video rigs
April 26, 2017, 09:35:26 pm
oh - if your machine is a bit inadequate
Think this might do the trick,

Could maybe help with the weighted hangs/calf raises/squats/bicep curls.
Nibs probably already has one of these.
Thanks for advice Largers think I might need chest freezer to keep this bad boy cool.
Would be fun to crack this open down the coffee shop, train or plane.

lagerstarfish

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#11 Re: Video rigs
April 26, 2017, 10:44:46 pm

Thanks for advice Lagers think I might need chest freezer to keep this bad boy cool.


it works

SA Chris

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#12 Re: Video rigs
April 27, 2017, 08:25:39 am
I always found Sony Vegas to be fairly intuitive

Me too. Adobe only slightly less so, but OK as I had used Vegas for a while and it's not that different.

cheque

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#13 Re: Video rigs
April 27, 2017, 10:10:27 am
If you use Vegas you also get the pleasure of using the tutorials made by this amazing guy;D



benpritch

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#14 Re: Video rigs
April 27, 2017, 10:46:24 am
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve

I'd say DaVinci Resolve is a good option as it is free and it is getting more and more useful (version 14 about to arrive)The full version is about to come down in price to $299 as well but the free version seems totally usable to me. I'd say it's challenging Premiere as an editor  and for colour correction it already wins hands down. I'm paying 45 per month for Creative Suite and seriously considering learning Resolve so i can opt out of CC.

Anther free one that I don't know anything about is being offered by Avid http://nofilmschool.com/2015/04/avid-just-announced-free-version-their-world-class-nle-media-composer


jfdm

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#15 Re: Video rigs
April 27, 2017, 11:18:49 am
If you use Vegas you also get the pleasure of using the tutorials made by this amazing guy;D

Just clicked the link, seems like a very nice chap indeed.
Very popular "tutorial" with 56,000 views 8)

Johnny Brown

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#16 Re: Video rigs
April 27, 2017, 11:47:41 am
I looked at this a while ago (think I asked Cowboyhat) and downloaded Shotcut, though I haven't actually used it yet.

Although Lightworks now seems like a more obvious choice.

http://www.techradar.com/news/software/applications/the-best-free-video-editor-1330136

lagerstarfish

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#17 Re: Video rigs
April 27, 2017, 11:56:49 am
I think with the free version of Lightworks you are limited to exporting to only MPEG4/H.264  720p

which is fine for web stuff

the important thing is that it will import pretty much all formats (I think)

jfdm

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#18 Re: Video rigs
April 27, 2017, 01:57:13 pm
I looked at this a while ago (think I asked Cowboyhat) and downloaded Shotcut, though I haven't actually used it yet.

Although Lightworks now seems like a more obvious choice.

http://www.techradar.com/news/software/applications/the-best-free-video-editor-1330136
Thanks JB and lagers, had a quick look at review of lightworks
https://dototot.com/why-you-should-and-shouldnt-learn-lightworks-video-editing-software/
Great that it is free, but review says that it is buggy, in terms of file types if you want something out of the ordinary then you would have to pay for Pro version.
Will keep digging around.
Vagas unfortunately wont run on Mac, so that is the end of that unless I get a new computer :-\
Creative Cloud for teacher 16 a month, use photoshop loads at work so might be a good way to go, although supposed to quite slow on mac.
License from Adobe would cover both work PC and mac at home, so that they should sync seamlessly when passing files between the two.

 

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#19 Re: Video rigs
April 27, 2017, 02:47:09 pm
so that they should sync seamlessly when passing files between the two.

Be a first.

jfdm

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#20 Re: Video rigs
April 27, 2017, 03:05:25 pm
so that they should sync seamlessly when passing files between the two.

Be a first.
IT issues always the same, it wouldn't be the first time that something didn't work properly.
If I go down the adobe route will let you know how I get on, regarding file sharing  ;D

Johnny Brown

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#21 Re: Video rigs
April 27, 2017, 03:15:50 pm
After a very quick play Shotcut looks a lot gentler on the hardware than Lightworks or Resolve.

lagerstarfish

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#22 Re: Video rigs
April 27, 2017, 04:15:08 pm

Creative Cloud for teacher 16 a month, use photoshop loads at work so might be a good way to go, although supposed to quite slow on mac.


you can do proxy editing with Premier Pro, so might be OK (apart from rendering, but you can leave the machine overnight to do that)

jfdm

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#23 Re: Video rigs
April 27, 2017, 07:24:54 pm
you can do proxy editing with Premier Pro, so might be OK (apart from rendering, but you can leave the machine overnight to do that)
Gotcha,
Horse power not used for edit but when finally exporting.

You didnt get the idea for this from Dutch Steve mclaren/ Sean Connery

Thanks though lagers have proxys in mind when editing large files.
You seem to know a lot about video, dabbler or pro?

lagerstarfish

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#24 Re: Video rigs
April 27, 2017, 07:31:14 pm
Thanks though lagers have proxys in mind when editing large files.
You seem to know a lot about video, dabbler or pro?

enthusiastic dabbler - but not so much recently

reason I know about proxy editing is from the old HV20 forum (now no longer in existence?)

I edited this on an IBM Thinkpad with a 1.4GHz Celeron and 2 GB of RAM - single core, coz that's what processors used to be (yeah IBM, remember them?)



I did get IDed last Sunday by some bloke called Ben from down south  :wave:
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 07:39:45 pm by lagerstarfish »

jfdm

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#25 Re: Video rigs
April 27, 2017, 09:12:22 pm
(yeah IBM, remember them?
I did get IDed last Sunday by some bloke called Ben from down south  :wave:

Remember them, I think we still have a few floating around school in use!
Often loaned to teachers who pi*s off IT technician.
Think it was 99/00 I got PC 1ghz with gig of ram.
Thought I'd bought the earth, first started with Photoshop gig then.
It's only taken nearly 20 years to get round to video!
Anyway loved Conan, not surprised about ID check, you look pretty youthful!

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#26 Re: Video rigs
April 27, 2017, 10:26:30 pm
You can't go wrong with the Violent Femmes either.... good feeling.

jfdm

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#27 Re: Video rigs
April 27, 2017, 11:06:54 pm
You can't go wrong with the Violent Femmes either.... good feeling.
Dan your films are always impressive.
What are you using to make them. Hardware/software.
Know that when you make film it's obviously more than just the tech.
But I bet more pro than dabbler?

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#28 Re: Video rigs
April 27, 2017, 11:29:18 pm
Hi jfdm, thanks for the good vibes. I use a Mac book pro and fcpx and / or da Vinci resolve lite (which is free and since black magic updated it runs loads better on lower spec machines). I use some software like colour finale in fcpx but since the recent OS update it's gone to shit. the things most important to me that would struggle in iMovie are setting resolution, retiming clips and colour correction. I'm not really bothered about 4K so haven't run into any problems with cpu / Gpu slowing down etc. It takes a few mins to render a 20 min clip in prores hd.

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#29 Video rigs
April 28, 2017, 08:34:37 am
For iOS, I've found Cameo (Vimeo's own editing app) alright. I used to use iMovie but it takes up loads of memory/disk space (my phone is near perma full) and Cameo takes up 20%.

It's basic (music, edits, titles) but does the job for a basic climbing vid - and for free Vimeo users it uploads vids direct straight away. None of this 'processing time' etc..

Because of this in he past I've edited on iMovie then uploaded via cameo.

lagerstarfish

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#30 Re: Video rigs
April 28, 2017, 09:21:41 am
while we're on the subject; anyone tried basic editing on an android phone?

which apps? opinions?

jfdm

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#31 Re: Video rigs
April 28, 2017, 10:20:12 am
the things most important to me that would struggle in iMovie are setting resolution, retiming clips and colour correction.
Dan thanks for your reply, when i watch your films, how are you getting that grainy old feel to your film? (Like the one below, really liked this one).
Maybe playing around with the resolution of the film and colour correction? Plus some kind of filter for the scratchy effect?

Will look into your suggestions about the technical bits and pieces.
Looking at things online and having used iMovie briefly, I can to see the possible limitations already.

Largers - have iphone so cant help you out with this.

« Last Edit: April 28, 2017, 10:32:45 am by jfdm »

andy_e

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#32 Re: Video rigs
April 28, 2017, 10:24:47 am
I'd imagine it's the same technique as this one:


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#33 Re: Video rigs
April 28, 2017, 10:42:16 am
Dan thanks for your reply, when i watch your films, how are you getting that grainy old feel to your film? (Like the one below, really liked this one).
Maybe playing around with the resolution of the film and colour correction? Plus some kind of filter for the scratchy effect?


I believe that is film.

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#34 Re: Video rigs
April 28, 2017, 01:37:27 pm
the things most important to me that would struggle in iMovie are setting resolution, retiming clips and colour correction.
Dan thanks for your reply, when i watch your films, how are you getting that grainy old feel to your film? (Like the one below, really liked this one).
Maybe playing around with the resolution of the film and colour correction? Plus some kind of filter for the scratchy effect?

Will look into your suggestions about the technical bits and pieces.
Looking at things online and having used iMovie briefly, I can to see the possible limitations already.

Largers - have iphone so cant help you out with this.

Yeah, if you buy a cheap old camera on eBay and stick a cartridge in you'll most likely get similar effects like scratchy grainy looking footage depending on which film stock you use. You can actually get some pretty decent cameras cheaply if you're lucky and with modern film and scanning techniques they should give you a quality close to 16mm. I also used some various functions on the camera intentionally badly to over expose or give light traces etc. I recently picked up a couple of new cameras I'm going to experiment with over the next few months - one is the Agfa Movezoom used to shoot this aphex twin vid :

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#35 Re: Video rigs
April 28, 2017, 01:46:10 pm
I also used some various functions on the camera intentionally badly

Yeah, I do that too. :look:

andy_e

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#36 Re: Video rigs
April 28, 2017, 02:08:04 pm
Mine flashes up with a warning when it's overexposed.


jfdm

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#37 Re: Video rigs
April 28, 2017, 04:22:42 pm
Yeah, if you buy a cheap old camera on eBay and stick a cartridge in you'll most likely get similar effects like scratchy grainy looking footage depending on which film stock you use. You can actually get some pretty decent cameras cheaply if you're lucky and with modern film and scanning techniques they should give you a quality close to 16mm. I also used some various functions on the camera intentionally badly to over expose or give light traces etc. I recently picked up a couple of new cameras I'm going to experiment with over the next few months - one is the Agfa Movezoom
Amazing, think that the old 16mm cine camera's might be making a come back!
Last summer went on a teachers course at Tate to do with video and we created some work on old 16mm cine with b/w film.
It was time consuming to use, camera had a fixed focus, tape measure was used to get the focus, light meters , dark room for developing the film, but definitely worth it.
Blacks came out really black and lovely scratches/artifacts created during the developing stage.
The guy that ran the workshop also worked with really high def camera, showed some footage pretty amazing, camera was in the 10sof thousands.

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#38 Re: Video rigs
April 28, 2017, 05:31:50 pm

This is another old NLE suite (like Avid and lightworks) that is now available again as a free version.

https://www.media100.com

I haven't used it myself since this release, in fact I had more or less forgotten about it. I mostly work on Premiere and Avid these days (now that FCP 7 is dead). I think FCPX is good value and well specced, plus it has improved considerably since its disastrous launch a few years ago.
I suspect you would have to commit to a bit of a learning curve on lightworks, Avid free and Resolve. Premiere is easy enough, vegas and fcpx are pretty good that way too, I think (not so familiar with Vegas, but is was always highly regarded and had been around for a long time).

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#39 Re: Video rigs
April 28, 2017, 09:31:19 pm
Last summer went on a teachers course at Tate to do with video and we created some work on old 16mm cine with b/w film.
....Blacks came out really black and lovely scratches/artifacts created during the developing stage.

Bring back nitrate film!  Okay, it may have been highly unstable, prone to igniting, and virtually impossible to extinguish (keeps burning under water or without air) but it produced gorgeous results that seem never to have been matched.  Luminous white skin contrasting with lustrous black; the actresses from that period almost glow with an inner pale fire - surely that's worth a few incinerated cinemas!?

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#40 Re: Video ri
April 28, 2017, 10:44:34 pm
Last summer went on a teachers course at Tate to do with video and we created some work on old 16mm cine with b/w film.
....Blacks came out really black and lovely scratches/artifacts created during the developing stage.

Bring back nitrate film!  Okay, it may have been highly unstable, prone to igniting, and virtually impossible to extinguish (keeps burning under water or without air) but it produced gorgeous results that seem never to have been matched.  Luminous white skin contrasting with lustrous black; the actresses from that period almost glow with an inner pale fire - surely that's worth a few incinerated cinemas!?
Maybe back in the day, but not with the film of today.
Kodak frequently asked questions discusses combustion. :coffee:
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/Support/Technical_Information/Frequently_Asked_Questions/default.htm
I think there is a greater chance of laptop/phone frying under strain than the film going up in smoke. Samsung/Dreamliner batteries frying seem a lot more problematic.
Talking 16mm/35mm film, Kodak stopped making cine, things looked very bleak, price of cine film went through roof. Kodak have revived making it, so price now dropped but still expensive. Only a few places in uk that process film but it is cheaper and pretty straightforward to DIY it. Hardware realitvely inexpensive on eBay.
Film makers on course pleased that cine is still being made, as you point out film characteristics are unique and valued.
Thinking back to summer think we also used and developed 35mm film. Although toasty in London there was no acts of film catching fire.
Have a great weekend everybody and thanks for all your help over the last few days.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2017, 10:59:05 pm by jfdm »

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#41 Re: Video rigs
April 28, 2017, 11:02:22 pm
Maybe back in the day, but not with the film of today.
Kodak frequently asked questions discusses combustion. :coffee:
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/Support/Technical_Information/Frequently_Asked_Questions/default.htm
I think there is a greater chance of laptop frying under strain than the film going up in smoke. Samsung/Dreamliner batteries frying seem a lot more problematic.
great weekend everybody and thanks for all your help over the last few days.

That's was my (slightly fatuous) point - I do not disagree that the "film of today" is less risky than a laptop battery.  I just find it a bit rum that the current "state of the art" looks inferior to the old-school, given a century of "progress".

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#43 Re: Video rigs
April 29, 2017, 08:55:22 am
Didn't kodak phase out cellulose nitrate based film in like the 1910-1920s?

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#44 Re: Video rigs
April 29, 2017, 09:07:53 am
Nitrate was used until around 1950 - Kodak didn't introduce the alternative celluolose acetate until 1948.

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