[feeko]

Hi,
Does anybody have any information, beta, knowledge etc. on the route Deep Blue Sea on the Eiger (Geneva pillar)?
Any information or helpful hints would be hugely appreciated. I have found some stuff on the internet, but anything extra is always helpful.
Cheers in advance

[slackline]

Could you perhaps link to what you have found so that...

a) People don't waste their time providing you with information you already have.
b) Anyone who comes across this thread in the future will have the information you have already gathered.

Its as simple as copying and pasting the URL into a post.

[feeko]

Of course, no problem. Good idea

Of course there is a lot of reporting of the solo (with base kit) by Dean Potter. However this isn't really useful for most people. However, there are some nice photographs.

Two nice blogs in German:

(1) http://mdettling.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/eiger-genfer-pfeiler-deep-blue-sea-7b.html
(2) http://htobler1.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/eiger-genfer-pfeiler-deep-blue-sea-7b.html

A thread from another climbing forum - http://www.chockstone.org/Forum/Forum.asp?Action=Display&ForumID=3&MessageID=15755&Replies=17

[Wood FT]

I've researched this route before and came to the same links you have above. Though I do get the feeling that to go there to do that route alone would be like going to a strip club for the beer.

[duncan]

Deep Blue Sea is too strong beer for me. Chant du Cygne however...

Blog 1 and good topo

Blog 2

Kleine Scheidegg webcam

[mde]

I'm the author of the first linked page above about Deep Blue Sea. Please feel free to ask any questions, either here or as comments on my blog. No problem with asking questions in English there either. I've been on the Geneva Pillar and generally the Eiger North Face for a couple of times now for alpine sport climbing, so know the area pretty well. A good introduction might be the much easier Freakonomics, which runs about 50m to the right of Deep Blue Sea, see here:

http://mdettling.blogspot.ch/2011/09/eiger-nordwand-freakonomics-7a.html

[Teaboy]

Chant du Cygne also seems pretty hardcore, Duncan

https://www.facebook.com/BritishMountaineeringCouncil/posts/482291238457538

[AJM]

Deep Blue Sea is too strong beer for me. Chant du Cygne however...

Blog 1 and good topo

Blog 2

Kleine Scheidegg webcam

Ferociously sandbag "7a" slab with 6m bolt spacings sounds pretty strong beer to me 

[Wood FT]

http://mdettling.blogspot.ch/2011/09/eiger-nordwand-freakonomics-7a.html

 

just want to say thanks for the blog, used it extensively while planning a trip a few years ago!

[tomtom]

Huge respect to anyone who's been on the north face.. I took the path traversing the base of the face 20 years ago on a walking hol and it was one of the most intimidating faces I've seen. Rumbles of rockfalls and shit all day..
Remember watching the twinkling head torches on the face at night from the campsite..

[feeko]

Thank you everyone for the helpful input.

mde - Freakonomics looks like a good route to start. We can scope Deep Blue Sea at the same time. I will be in touch if that is OK regarding any more specific details on the routes, however your blogs are a very good start. Thank you.

Duncan - cheers. The routes you have suggested to look pretty mega. Thanks!

[duncan]

Ferociously sandbag "7a" slab with 6m bolt spacings sounds pretty strong beer to me 

Your lead Andy!

It's all probably a dream, certainly a BHAG, but if I can get a bit fitter to the point of onsighting 7a+ and E5 again it would be right up my street.

I read varying reports about seriousness and difficulty the crux pitch. This essay 'Never Trust The Swiss' (starts p29, large file) describes another epic. The team had backed-off The Nose, which is a slight encouragement. It can't be any worse than Swanage can it?

Easiest route thereabouts seems to be Löcherspiel 6b Link to mde's blog. 8 pitches, ~300m, 6b. Topo.

mde, would you recommend this? Also, I assume you have done Chant du Cygne. Could you cheat up the crux pitch if necessary?

[jwi]

According to Parois du Légende Chante du Cygne has a mandatory grade of 6b+. Doesn't sound too bad?  (Sorry for being such a effing arm-chair alpinist.  )

[mde]

I will be in touch if that is OK regarding any more specific details on the routes, however your blogs are a very good start. Thank you.

Of course, you are welcome!

Easiest route thereabouts seems to be Löcherspiel 6b Link to mde's blog. 8 pitches, ~300m, 6b. Topo. Would you reccomend this?

I don't think it is a very good introductory route. It is really only very sparsely protected and thus different from routes such as Freakonomics, Chant du Cygne and Deep Blue Sea. The gear is not always good and though it is never really that hard, at some places it feels more like soloing 6a+/6b terrain where it is additionally sometimes pretty unclear where to go. Freakonomics is the much better and accessible introductory route. That said, I'm also in the process of putting up a new line in that region of the north face. Regarding the required level, I suspect it will be somewhere in between Freakonomics and Deep Blue Sea. Keeping fingers crossed that weather, conditions and my availability match this summer, so that I can finish it.

Also, I assume you have done Chant du Cygne. Could you cheat up the crux pitch if necessary?

Yes, I have done Chant du Cygne as well. However, already in 2003 - that is a while ago and also my level improved somewhat in the meantime, so it is not so easy for me to compare it to the other routes which I did more recently. As I remember it, the lower part has pretty nice and relatively easy climbing. There are not too many bolts in that section, but it never felt really badly runout. However, a fall in the wrong place can be dangerous there. A few years ago, there was even a fatal accident by Giovanni Q., a famous and strong Swiss climber.

The upper part is steeper and quite sustained. There are two pitches with 'soso' rock quality. The first one being the 6c/6c+ dihedral at the start of the steep part, the next one being the 6b/6b+ pitch before the crux pitch, i.e. the one with the loose blocks just above the belay. The 7a crux pitch first has some athletic crack climbing, then some crimpy powerful moves to reach the arete proper. If that is not way above your level (unlikely if you make it there), it is certainly doable with some resting or aid from the bolts - protection is reasonable there. However, the last part of that pitch (which is not as steep anymore) is quite runout, though a bit easier. It is very sustained 6b+ terrain (if you believe in the obligatory grade, maybe it is also 6c/+) with bolt distances in the 5-7m range (I would say). As I remember it, especially going for the belay has a last part which is a bit spicy and tricky. That section could bite you if you are very powered out at this stage. Then a cliff may be handy for resting in between the bolts, as I recall there are some nice gouttes d'eau (btw what is the correct English expression for these?)

I think one of the main challenges with Chant du Cygne is to climb efficiently to do it in 1 day - and to arrive at the crux pitch sufficiently fresh. In my opinion, that 7a is neither harder nor worsely protected than a "standard Swiss 7a" on an alpine multipitch route in areas such as Wenden, Engelhörner et cetera. Another difficulty is that retreat is really nightmareish - especially from the upper part. The lower part is very diagonal, the upper part still traverses and is very steep, plus there is a lot of scree around.

[AJM]

Yes, I have done Chant du Cygne as well. However, already in 2003 - that is a while ago and also my level improved somewhat in the meantime, so it is not so easy for me to compare it to the other routes which I did more recently. As I remember it, the lower part has pretty nice and relatively easy climbing. There are not too many bolts in that section, but it never felt really badly runout. However, a fall in the wrong place can be dangerous there. A few years ago, there was even a fatal accident by Giovanni Q., a famous and strong Swiss climber.

The upper part is steeper and quite sustained. There are two pitches with 'soso' rock quality. The first one being the 6c/6c+ dihedral at the start of the steep part, the next one being the 6b/6b+ pitch before the crux pitch, i.e. the one with the loose blocks just above the belay. The 7a crux pitch first has some athletic crack climbing, then some crimpy powerful moves to reach the arete proper. If that is not way above your level (unlikely if you make it there), it is certainly doable with some resting or aid from the bolts - protection is reasonable there. However, the last part of that pitch (which is not as steep anymore) is quite runout, though a bit easier. It is very sustained 6b+ terrain (if you believe in the obligatory grade, maybe it is also 6c/+) with bolt distances in the 5-7m range (I would say). As I remember it, especially going for the belay has a last part which is a bit spicy and tricky. That section could bite you if you are very powered out at this stage. Then a cliff may be handy for resting in between the bolts, as I recall there are some nice gouttes d'eau (btw what is the correct English expression for these?)

I think one of the main challenges with Chant du Cygne is to climb efficiently to do it in 1 day - and to arrive at the crux pitch sufficiently fresh. In my opinion, that 7a is neither harder nor worsely protected than a "standard Swiss 7a" on an alpine multipitch route in areas such as Wenden, Engelhörner et cetera. Another difficulty is that retreat is really nightmareish - especially from the upper part. The lower part is very diagonal, the upper part still traverses and is very steep, plus there is a lot of scree around.

Great beta thanks. I had a quick flick through your blog and I'm definitely going to study some of the posts about Wenden at some point - very high on my wish list although I suspect probabky not at your level.

I think, by the way, that a cliff would usually be called a skyhook in English (assuming it is what I think it is - there can't be many things you could rest in a goutte d'eau with!) but yes we would call them or at least understand the, being called gouttes d'eau (I'm not sure we actually have an anglicised version, we don't have many of them in the UK)

[Lopez]

According to Parois du Légende Chante du Cygne has a mandatory grade of 6b+. Doesn't sound too bad?  (Sorry for being such a effing arm-chair alpinist.  )

I thought similar to you (6c obl i remembered) and had this route in the back of my mind for some time to be attempted at some point, then i read that 'translated' blog linked above... (which luckily for me the original was in Spanish)

50m 6a/b or thereabouts pitch with 2 bolts next to the belay and then no gear or bolts for the remainder?  

A very mandatory 6c, 50m slabby pitch, with a grand total of 6 runners. "Falls forbidden"? 

A 7a pitch which is a massive sandbag and most likely 7b, with bolts at 6/7 metres? 

It sounds a little more committing than the 6c obl from the topos made it up to be... Maybe one day

[jwi]

My better half had a bit of an epic on Chante du Cygne as well... she had to rap off from half height with an injured partner (rock fall) in the rain. I knew it was on the Geneva pillar but I'd forgotten which route. Asked her when she got home.

Funny enough she's been keen on a rematch.

[AJM]

I thought similar to you (6c obl i remembered) and had this route in the back of my mind for some time to be attempted at some point, then i read that 'translated' blog linked above... (which luckily for me the original was in Spanish)

50m 6a/b or thereabouts pitch with 2 bolts next to the belay and then no gear or bolts for the remainder?  

A very mandatory 6c, 50m slabby pitch, with a grand total of 6 runners. "Falls forbidden"? 

A 7a pitch which is a massive sandbag and most likely 7b, with bolts at 6/7 metres? 

It sounds a little more committing than the 6c obl from the topos made it up to be... Maybe one day

It's making me more curious about whether Freakonomics is a more sporty/safer(/appealing) undertaking despite being physically harder.......

[mde]

It's making me more curious about whether Freakonomics is a more sporty/safer(/appealing) undertaking despite being physically harder.......

Freakonomics is clearly easier than Chant du Cygne. It is much shorter and after completing the first 4 pitches, one can bail anytime. The bolting of the easier pitches is about similar as in Chant du Cygne, in the harder pitches it is better. That said, the harder passages in Freakonomics are only short and IMHO the topo grades are given a bit too generously. To me it felt more like 6c+ max, 6b obl.

Also IMHO, the Spanish report on CdC is a little bit overexaggerated. Yes, there aren't bolts every 3m in the lower part, but the climbing is mostly relatively easy and straightforward in the 5b-6a range. The harder pitches above are reasonably bolted, there is no hard climbing far from the bolts. Sure, there is one or the other runout in 6b like terrain, but nothing too serious.

What is important with all these routes in the north face is to only climb them in good, safe weather. To some extent, retreat is problematic on all of them and a thundershower is the least which you can need there. Also, except on very warm days with more than 30 degrees in the lowlands, resp a 0 degree level of more than 4000m, it is too cold and not pleasant to climb these routes. Unfortunately, this leaves only a handful of good days per season.

Remark: yes, with a cliff I meant a skyhook in my previous post.

[metal arms]

...as I recall there are some nice gouttes d'eau (btw what is the correct English expression for these?)

I'd call them solution pockets

[Fultonius]

Did any of you lot ever get on any of the routes?

What are the approach & descent like?