UKBouldering.com

Structuring Board and Campus sessions (Read 6429 times)

James Malloch

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1686
  • Karma: +62/-1
Structuring Board and Campus sessions
March 02, 2017, 09:03:57 am
After hearing about a friend's (paid for) training plan this weekend it made me think more about my own training and how I could be structuring it better.

For their board sessions they were told to have 5 attempts at 5/6 different problems (I'm assuming that they're things you find hard/wont flash). This has been very different to my recent board sessions where I've just been going through other people's problems trying to tick everything that's been set so far.

As it's a new board to me and I've been getting back into it after injury there's loads (including easier problems) to do, and because of the different levels of problem I generally flash the problem, get it in a few goes, or find it hard and leave it for another time once I've got through the easier versions.

Recently in an average session I've been, at a guess, doing 20ish problems within approximately 30 attempts. So in total I've been having around the same number of goes as my friend, but clearly the number of problems means I'm attempting things much more within my ability.

I'm guessing that this also serves a purpose but it's a very different type of training (i.e. not just strength, but this is something I'd like to work on).

I'd be interested in how others structure their sessions to get the most from them in terms of difficulty of problems, number of attempts, sticking with one problem or trying multiple, rest times, etc.


Also, I would like to do a little campus training as power is generally a big weakness of mine. At the weekend I managed 1-3-5 (both sides) on the larger (22mm?) rungs for the first time.

To progress from here, I'm not sure if I should try to do the same on the smaller rungs? Try to comfortably do 1-3-5 multiple times in a session? Start trying 1-4-5? 1-3-5-7?

Any advice would be appreciated.

tomtom

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 20282
  • Karma: +641/-11
There's a video of Ben talking someone through a training session on a moonboard at last years Kendal film fest (with an audience) that would be worth looking at imho- there he talks about trying problems that you can't quite do etc...

James Malloch

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1686
  • Karma: +62/-1
There's a video of Ben talking someone through a training session on a moonboard at last years Kendal film fest (with an audience) that would be worth looking at imho- there he talks about trying problems that you can't quite do etc...

Cheers TT - I'll have a search.

nai

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 4008
  • Karma: +206/-1
  • In my dreams

petejh

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 5778
  • Karma: +622/-36
Also the training advice posted next to the Moonboard (at least it is on the one I use) is a good guide for training power - pick a problem at your limit/just above your limit. Set a timer to 10 minutes and within that time give it four tries giving 100% effort each try. Have 15mins rest. Repeat with a different problem.

For campussing if you can do 135 on the large rungs I'd stick to this size and try to progress as per below. If there's half rungs to help the transition then all the better.
1-3-4
1-2-4
1-3-5
1-4-5
1-2-5
1-4-6
1-3-6
1-5-6
1-4-7
1-5-7
1-3-7
1-5-8
1-5-9

Nibile

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 7991
  • Karma: +743/-4
  • Part Animal Part Machine
    • TOTOLORE
I'd be interested in how others structure their sessions to get the most from them in terms of difficulty of problems, number of attempts, sticking with one problem or trying multiple, rest times, etc.

I don't think my experience is of much help for you, given that I basically don't climb on rock anymore, so I don't have to peak or plan anything specifically.
As you probably know, I treat my board as a bouldering destination, and this means that now more than a training tool, it's the crag at which I want to perform.
In the last three years or so I've barely set 10 warm-up problems of various difficulties, dedicating 90% of the sessions to redpointing old projects.

Usually I stick to just one problem, and I siege it until I do it (this could mean months or even entire seasons).
Sometimes, depending on how I feel, I mix it up a bit trying small bits of other problems to give skin a break and change prehensions.
On the rare occasions in which I climb with someone else, I prefer to take it a bit easier mentally and just try small bits of projects or even just new problems that my friends set, trying to flash them and then maybe tweaking them until they feel properly hard but still quickly doable in the session. If it comes out really hard, I write it down and it goes to the bottom of the projects list. 

For my redpointing sessions I usually do a general theraband warm-up, and then a fingers specific warm-up on the BM. Depending on available time, I can also do some recruitment work with snatches or broad jumps or jump squats.
Then I try all the moves in isolation, staying put in each position.
Big rest.
Then usually three or four tries, then I'm done.

HTH.

Nizza

Offline
  • **
  • addict
  • Posts: 128
  • Karma: +22/-0
    • Increasing The Calibre
For my board sessions I've always picked 4 main projects a session - at or above my current limit. I'll have between 4-6 goes on each, either sections or full attempts and then rotate to the next problem. I also choose each of those problems so they have different style moves. 

I've been out of climbing a while and haven't had my first campus session back yet but when I used to campus a lot I did it in six week cycles with two week breaks at the end I would do v specific exercises. I'd campus once a week for the first four weeks, then up that to twice a week for the last two usually - warm up until I am having a go on a project (usually after 45 mins), take four goes and then go to the campus board so I am strong and not going tired. Campusing in my opinion is about pulling on strong each time and with good form, too often you see people swinging around. The key is also to design your sessions around progress and write them down.

If you're at 1-3-5  I would do three reps on each arm of ladders of
1-2-5
1-3-5
1-4-5
Then try three times 1-4-6

That way you're working at each of the different points the arm needs to be at to latch and pull through. Once you do 1-4-6 consistently then:
1-4-6 x3
1-3-6 x3
1-5-6 x3
1-5-7 x3 (attempts at you're limit)

1-4-7
1-5-7
1-5-8

I used to add 4x8 reps of 1-4 touches after my ladders where you focus each time on locking for as long as possible with your hand hovering over the 4th rung before you take it and then drop back down in control.

Once you get solid at this stage you can use the campus board in different ways by developing exercises to work your weaknesses.

James Malloch

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1686
  • Karma: +62/-1
Covered recently:

http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,27641.0.html

Cheers - I'll check that out for the board aspect.

Also the training advice posted next to the Moonboard (at least it is on the one I use) is a good guide for training power - pick a problem at your limit/just above your limit. Set a timer to 10 minutes and within that time give it four tries giving 100% effort each try. Have 15mins rest. Repeat with a different problem.

For campussing if you can do 135 on the large rungs I'd stick to this size and try to progress as per below. If there's half rungs to help the transition then all the better.
1-3-4
1-2-4
1-3-5
1-4-5
1-2-5
1-4-6
1-3-6
1-5-6
1-4-7
1-5-7
1-3-7
1-5-8
1-5-9


Thanks Pete - 10 mins with 4 x tries sounds like a sensible option for me at the moment. Will check the foundry Moonboard advice next time I'm Sheffield too. I think the difficulty is getting problems at the right level but I'll have a search through the problems listed and try to work some out tonight.

Campus progression is a good list to have too. There are medium rungs where I train (and small) so I'll mix it up. Managed 1-3-5 on the medium fine last week so might try to do thing on the larger rungs and then try to repeat on the medium.

I've the list printed off so it'll provide some goals to aim for.


I don't think my experience is of much help for you, given that I basically don't climb on rock anymore, so I don't have to peak or plan anything specifically.
As you probably know, I treat my board as a bouldering destination, and this means that now more than a training tool, it's the crag at which I want to perform.
In the last three years or so I've barely set 10 warm-up problems of various difficulties, dedicating 90% of the sessions to redpointing old projects.

Usually I stick to just one problem, and I siege it until I do it (this could mean months or even entire seasons).
Sometimes, depending on how I feel, I mix it up a bit trying small bits of other problems to give skin a break and change prehensions.
On the rare occasions in which I climb with someone else, I prefer to take it a bit easier mentally and just try small bits of projects or even just new problems that my friends set, trying to flash them and then maybe tweaking them until they feel properly hard but still quickly doable in the session. If it comes out really hard, I write it down and it goes to the bottom of the projects list. 

For my redpointing sessions I usually do a general theraband warm-up, and then a fingers specific warm-up on the BM. Depending on available time, I can also do some recruitment work with snatches or broad jumps or jump squats.
Then I try all the moves in isolation, staying put in each position.
Big rest.
Then usually three or four tries, then I'm done.

HTH.



Nibs - sounds pretty intense. I'm definitely using it to transfer to outside but it would also be ace to be strong on a board in it's own right.

I think I need to be better at the practising moves in isolation part. At the moment I'm skipping things that I can't do quickly but I think that's more due to the fact there are lots of existing set problems that I can do quickly. Once they start running out it'll be more project based sessions I think.


For my board sessions I've always picked 4 main projects a session - at or above my current limit. I'll have between 4-6 goes on each, either sections or full attempts and then rotate to the next problem. I also choose each of those problems so they have different style moves. 

I've been out of climbing a while and haven't had my first campus session back yet but when I used to campus a lot I did it in six week cycles with two week breaks at the end I would do v specific exercises. I'd campus once a week for the first four weeks, then up that to twice a week for the last two usually - warm up until I am having a go on a project (usually after 45 mins), take four goes and then go to the campus board so I am strong and not going tired. Campusing in my opinion is about pulling on strong each time and with good form, too often you see people swinging around. The key is also to design your sessions around progress and write them down.

If you're at 1-3-5  I would do three reps on each arm of ladders of
1-2-5
1-3-5
1-4-5
Then try three times 1-4-6

That way you're working at each of the different points the arm needs to be at to latch and pull through. Once you do 1-4-6 consistently then:
1-4-6 x3
1-3-6 x3
1-5-6 x3
1-5-7 x3 (attempts at you're limit)

1-4-7
1-5-7
1-5-8

I used to add 4x8 reps of 1-4 touches after my ladders where you focus each time on locking for as long as possible with your hand hovering over the 4th rung before you take it and then drop back down in control.

Once you get solid at this stage you can use the campus board in different ways by developing exercises to work your weaknesses.

Thanks Nizza - the campus explanation is really clear and sets lots of goals (and how to get there). I'm aiming for good form and think I'm achieving it. I gave your session a go last week and managed:

1-2-5
1-3-5
1-4-5

on both the larger (22mm?) and medium (18mm) rungs leading with both hands. Though only doing 2 reps in total as it was post board session and I thought it best to ease myself in.

1-4-6 seemed hard!! On the larger rung I managed 1-4- 5.5 okay so hopefully the extra half distance will come soon. Maybe it will tonight if I try the campus session without a board session first...

On the "touches" how long would your lock off generally be?

For me (just about being able to lock off a bar) this seems pretty far away haha!


Thanks all for the advice!

Nizza

Offline
  • **
  • addict
  • Posts: 128
  • Karma: +22/-0
    • Increasing The Calibre
I used to do it for as long as possible - it won't be very long but it will get better quickly. Just try and hold your hand over the rung for a split second before taking it and then going back down in control. Imagine your hand hovering over the rung and your other shoulder locking to hold that position. You'll often see people just slapping the rung and going back down and in my opinion you get very little from that.

By the sounds of it you can do 1-3-5 easily, 1-4-6 won't be far off. Basically your arm just doesn't have the power when further extended to pull two rungs or more, so by working that regime you'll improve really quickly.

I used to be really focussed on campus/board/fingerboard sessions and tend not to mix them too much to ensure quality session - a board session until I'm trying a project a few times then stop and have a quality campus board session.

 

James Malloch

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1686
  • Karma: +62/-1
I used to do it for as long as possible - it won't be very long but it will get better quickly. Just try and hold your hand over the rung for a split second before taking it and then going back down in control. Imagine your hand hovering over the rung and your other shoulder locking to hold that position. You'll often see people just slapping the rung and going back down and in my opinion you get very little from that.

By the sounds of it you can do 1-3-5 easily, 1-4-6 won't be far off. Basically your arm just doesn't have the power when further extended to pull two rungs or more, so by working that regime you'll improve really quickly.

I used to be really focussed on campus/board/fingerboard sessions and tend not to mix them too much to ensure quality session - a board session until I'm trying a project a few times then stop and have a quality campus board session.

Makes sense, thanks. Didn't try that specifically last night but found I could do the movement a lot slower and more controlled. Hopefully it will come soon.

Managed 1-4-6 a couple of times leading with both arms. Very close on the smaller rungs too  :2thumbsup:

Feels much easier leading with my weaker arm for some reason. Easier to push with the stronger one perhaps?

Next step is 1-4-7! Well, once I'm consistent on this and can do it on both rung sets.

Thanks again for the advice. It's great to have some structure and aims.

James Malloch

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1686
  • Karma: +62/-1
I was wondering last night whilst training. When you advise doing 1-2-5, 1-4-5 and 1-3-5, for example. Would it add any benefit to combine this?

I.e. 1-3-5-7 is like 1-3-5 on both arms apart from the first matched move.

Nizza

Offline
  • **
  • addict
  • Posts: 128
  • Karma: +22/-0
    • Increasing The Calibre
Yeah it could be of benefit - I used to add longer ladder circuits but you are tiring your arms out each time so I always found it wasn't immediate explosive power but moving into power stamina territory. Back in the day I would add 1-4-7-9 after my  attempts at 1-5-9 and ladder reps of 1-5-8

benno

Offline
  • **
  • menacing presence
  • Posts: 191
  • Karma: +15/-0
Feels much easier leading with my weaker arm for some reason. Easier to push with the stronger one perhaps?

This seems to be really common. Everyone I know is stronger locking off on their non-dominant arm, for whatever reason. Maybe it's a result of wanting to go for 50/50 moves with your dominant hand, so you lock more often on your "weak" arm? Terrible shoulder posture in your "strong" arm from years of misuse for work?

Murph

Offline
  • ****
  • forum abuser
  • Posts: 653
  • Karma: +66/-0
Everyone I know is stronger locking off on their non-dominant arm, for whatever reason.

I think youve got this mixed up? James is saying that he is stronger locking off on his dominant arm. I am too fwiw. This means it's easier to lead with my weak arm. Which is sort of counterintuitive but does make sense. 


Once you do 1-4-6 consistently then:
1-4-6 x3
1-3-6 x3
1-5-6 x3
1-5-7 x3 (attempts at you're limit)

1-4-7
1-5-7
1-5-8

......

Thanks for going to the trouble to write down your advice and specific recommendations. They make sense as the progressions from 1-3-5/1-4-6 territory. I'll add these to my megalist of trainings that I should be doing but am not doing!

benno

Offline
  • **
  • menacing presence
  • Posts: 191
  • Karma: +15/-0
Maybe... I assumed he meant going with your weak arm first, so if you're doing 1-3-5: weak arm to 3, strong arm through to 5. If that's the case, then you need much more lock on the weak arm for that movement.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


Nizza

Offline
  • **
  • addict
  • Posts: 128
  • Karma: +22/-0
    • Increasing The Calibre
No problem.

Other thing I used to do was specific exercises to work weaknesses, I think this is where the campus board can come in really useful.

After everything above I would rotate in the following

lock off ladders - these sound easy but when done properly are desperately hard. I think they are really effective at teaching you to lock deep.
Take 1 + 2 pull up as high as you can, take your lower hand off and as slowly as possible take 3, repeat all the way to 9. You should aim for your lower arm to be down by your armpit and eventually you should slowly static every move - to start you'll snatch it, but the beauty is you just go against your own body's limit, as a result its actually fine on the elbows - you feel it heavily in your forearms. I'd do 4 sets of these on each arm on mediums.

One arm catch - developed this to help improve my contact strength. Stand under the board and jump to the 4th medium rung with one arm, catch it and hold it for 4 seconds. All this relies on is the ability for you to catch a hold in a split second, I saw huge contact strength gains from this - started un able to do it on mediums, within 3 months could full sets on smalls. 4 sets of 4 reps.

1-5 lock - take 1 throw to 5 push up until you are on the tips of your lower fingers and lock off for 10 seconds then lower back down to 1 - this one needs big breaks as it is pretty brutal, 3 sets of 1 rep on each arm. Could do 1-5-8.5 static after doing this for two months.

I wouldn't touch the last two until you can do 1-5-8 every time, they are really intense.


James Malloch

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1686
  • Karma: +62/-1
Maybe... I assumed he meant going with your weak arm first, so if you're doing 1-3-5: weak arm to 3, strong arm through to 5. If that's the case, then you need much more lock on the weak arm for that movement.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

Yeah this is what I meant - may not have said it clearly though.

No problem.

Other thing I used to do was specific exercises to work weaknesses, I think this is where the campus board can come in really useful.

After everything above I would rotate in the following

lock off ladders - these sound easy but when done properly are desperately hard. I think they are really effective at teaching you to lock deep.
Take 1 + 2 pull up as high as you can, take your lower hand off and as slowly as possible take 3, repeat all the way to 9. You should aim for your lower arm to be down by your armpit and eventually you should slowly static every move - to start you'll snatch it, but the beauty is you just go against your own body's limit, as a result its actually fine on the elbows - you feel it heavily in your forearms. I'd do 4 sets of these on each arm on mediums.

One arm catch - developed this to help improve my contact strength. Stand under the board and jump to the 4th medium rung with one arm, catch it and hold it for 4 seconds. All this relies on is the ability for you to catch a hold in a split second, I saw huge contact strength gains from this - started un able to do it on mediums, within 3 months could full sets on smalls. 4 sets of 4 reps.

1-5 lock - take 1 throw to 5 push up until you are on the tips of your lower fingers and lock off for 10 seconds then lower back down to 1 - this one needs big breaks as it is pretty brutal, 3 sets of 1 rep on each arm. Could do 1-5-8.5 static after doing this for two months.

I wouldn't touch the last two until you can do 1-5-8 every time, they are really intense.




Lock off ladders sound interesting. I think it is one I can try in a month or two after I've built up a base though.

And the others do sound brutal. One to consider in the future!

 

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal