[sdm]

I think it also depends on sequence. There is a very specific heel placement that makes it feel easier. I'm usually quite good at spotting and using specific heels but I struggled on that one and it felt nails the first time I did it with a slightly different heel.

Tall people don't need the heel at all but don't know how hard that sequence is, it doesn't work for me.

Beretta and Blind Bat still felt easier even once I had the right sequence.

[moose]

I am pretty tall but very weak and undynamic so had to use the heel - but it felt incredibly bunched and awkward getting it on - the main reason I found the problem tricky

[abarro81]

I'd say most of the grades are fine Mike.

Colt - 7A+ is fine, no need for 7B especially since there's knee trickery available
Revolver - hard to grade as it would be nails for the short, but I'd be tempted to put it down to 8A
Dark Art - 7C+/8A
Black Crow - I think 7C+. However I don't think Black Hoe adds much so would be tempted to drop this to hard 7C+, though it's not such a big discrepancy that it really matters. If black crow gets downgraded then this should do too, however.
White Light - I know that many think this 7C+ but I think 8A
Ebola - I genuinely think this is 7C+, though I may be in the minority here
Light Flight - maybe harder than 7A? Especially if short...
The Phoenix - I did it without realising there's a knee many years ago, but I presume it may need a downgrade for knee trickery

Swampy - could the guide clarify exactly what this does? Tried it years ago and left feeling like either I was starting in the wrong place (rh in the lh start hold of vanilla sky, lh on the rh tufa of the 7A) or it was nails for 7B+. May have missed a trick but noone having logged it on 8a.nu suggests others may have had a similar experience
Soul crusher - I thought 7C but believe I'm in the minority here

Dark lady - more like 6C than 7A
Apprentice Prow - 7A+
Sir Alan - 7A+

Fools justice probably 7C+ thinking about it honestly
Tony's undercut elim - 7A+

[Dolph]

Right thanks. I'm starting to get there in my mind.

Some good feedback there abarro.

Just a few things that trouble me still.

A quick note is that Dark art and Black Crow are not the same grade surely.  Dark Art is harder. black hoe defo felt harder when I did it, but it may have cleaned up well.

It doesn't help that I no longer climb much at this place. It's too popular now.

I'm starting to get a list together of my current thoughts. I'LOL post this when it's done.

[Dolph]

 Right I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed by this. So I'm going to start at woody's. These are my current thoughts:

The Unknamed 6c+
I have no idea what swampy does. I might just delete it?
Dangerous AMW 7b+ (I have never tried the new right hand sequence, so I just don't know).
Souls Crusher 7c?
Wrestling WMDS 7c+
The rest can stay the same?

What does that sound like?

[Dolph]

After even more thinking. These are my thoughts for changes on the main wave area.

Revolver 8a (shoe tech has helped loads here.)
Terrorist 8a+ (still scrapes in?)
Fine Art 7a
Dark Art 7c+
Dark Beta 8a (soft?)
Dark Reservation 8a+ (it is harder than Revolver)
Light flight 7a+
Black Crow 7c to jug 7c+ to the top left?
Black Hoe 7c+
White light to stay at 7c+
White light 8a+ and FITR 8b+ to stay at the grade due to the pinch getting worse.
The Phoenix 7b+ (new hand knee lock sequence )
Qurentine 8a (this kind of think is not my style, seems most take 8a still?)
The rest can stay the same?

Any comments on that so far?

[Ru]

I thought Dark Art and Black Crow fine at soft 8a and soft 7c+. Might be being a bit shorter than the average climber. Soft doesn't mean they should be the next grade down.

[Duma]

Soft doesn't mean they should be the next grade down.

Sorry I know nothing about Anston grades, but would like to +1 to the above sentiment - I really don't like the term "soft" - either "low", or the next grade down is much clearer.

[Dolph]

I thought Dark Art and Black Crow fine at soft 8a and soft 7c+. Might be being a bit shorter than the average climber. Soft doesn't mean they should be the next grade down.

Whilst I ageee with this, this is not in line with the current trend in the peak. Which is if a problem is soft it gets automatucally downgraded. It is has been stated many times that the grading at Anston is generally soft. A statement I hate reading!!! There can't be that many low for the grade problems. Some need downgrading surely?

[cheque]

I've only been to Anston once, but my notes from the day describe The Undercut (6b at Ebola Buttress) as "almost as hard as the 7s".  remember it being extremely crimpy.

Do you need Pleasley grade opinions? I've been there quite a lot more.

[dave]

One thing to remember is that yes, anston grades do seem soft compared to peak limestone, but is this not because peak lime grades are ridiculously hard compared to just about anywhere else in the country? With a few obvious exceptions.

[Will Hunt]

Fine Art 7a

I think this is a good call. If you're keeping Colt at 7A+ then Fine Art just can't be in the same grade bracket. They're miles apart in difficulty.

[tomtom]

One thing to remember is that yes, anston grades do seem soft compared to peak limestone, but is this not because peak lime grades are ridiculously hard compared to just about anywhere else in the country? With a few obvious exceptions.

What Dave said.

[36chambers]

I thought Dark Art and Black Crow fine at soft 8a and soft 7c+. Might be being a bit shorter than the average climber. Soft doesn't mean they should be the next grade down.

+1

8A (unless you're lanky), seems fair to me

[Dolph]

 I suppose the question really is the age old old one, when it comes to grading boulder problems:

Do you grade for the best morphology using the easiest sequence in the best conditions. Or is it some kind of average of some or all of the above factors?

I love climbing, hate grading..............

[Dolph]

Do you need Pleasley grade opinions? I've been there quite a lot more.

I've just spotted this. Yes Pleasley will be in and the newer spots close by. I'd be interested to know your opinions. Some of the climbs here have changed a lot.

[Footwork]

Nazgul left is much easier than nazgul right. A grade between them I'd say.

I climbed dangerous action man with a heel, left hand mono and then throw right hand top. Not sure if this is the new method or old? Basic for 7c, tricky but probably 7b+.

Found Reservation hard for 7b, but no harder than Kudos at Rubicon!

[Orrincoley]

Soul crusher felt like soft 7C to me originally, although after trying it again I did find it a bit trickier, but not 7C+...
Didn't know there was new beta for Dangerous Action Man Wrestling, but I always found the left heel,  left hand pocket, right hand flick to top much harder than Soul Crusher.
The link WWMDS I believe is solid 8A to me,  the hardest moves all together on that roof isn't easy.
Black Crow is definitely harder than soul crusher which felt more like a soft but basic 7C+ to me. The difficulty for Black Hoe to me was that I had to do the crux of Black Crow to work it every time. It wasn't hugely hard but definitely trickier than the 2 moves Black Crow has at the end. So maybe much harder 7C+ or soft 8A.
I always found Dark Art very hard, took me loads of effort to do it. But once I had done it I could do it almost every time. 8A seems fair.  Dark Beta is way better and has a bit more spice so more top end 8A. And Dark Reservation for sure fits in at 8A+
Ebola is the living end. Had multiple sessions and can't touch it. Maybe not my style and I'm  blinded by arrogance, but I don't believe it's 7C. Definitely harder.
Haven't climbed as much at Roche Abbey but the newer beta for Fools Justice feels fair for a solid to top end 7C+, took me longer than I thought but that was probably because if fatigue.

[Dolph]

 Cheers Orin

Dangerous AMW was first climbed by Adam Wood (Ferret). He climbed a line just right of the arete. It went left hand to a crazy crap pinch, gotbin a right heel and then went right hand to the mono. It was totally nails! He graded this 7c+ and it felt top end for the grade. Go try it!

Hence why I think this wall is confused in the guide. Ned came up with the new method everyone uses now and I changed the grade last minute, but didn't adjust the others. I'm against pointless rules and eliminates for the sake of it generally. However I might still include this as variation. So essentially there is the original harder finish to WWMDS?

[dave]

So hang on, whats this about different way on dangerous action man? Not been on this for years but did it with LH out to some kind of slopey thing which we crimped up on, right heel by hand, sort of clamp under roof with left foot, go out right with RH to a kind of mono thing, then go again to a king of juggy pinch thing just before the top. Felt 7cish ballpark.

[36chambers]

Here's the beta I used and what I assumed everyone else did.

[dave]

Bonkers. Who'd want to actually pull on that minging pocket?

[cheque]

Yes Pleasley will be in and the newer spots close by. I'd be interested to know your opinions. Some of the climbs here have changed a lot.

Cool. I gather it'll be in the BMC Limestone South guide but that won't inclue the bouldering I guess. Despite having spent way too much of my life in that little part of the country I've never actually checked out the other areas so having a guide to them might motivate me!

However, despite having ticked most of the non-eliminate bouldering there, I just looked at the UKC page and can't picture any of the problems... basically I go there loads after work in the summer and forget the place even exists for the rest of the year. What's your deadline on this? I'm sure in a couple of months I'll have strong opinions on the grades again!

[sdm]

BMC limestone North includes a fair bit of bouldering.

[cheque]

BMC limestone North includes a fair bit of bouldering.

It's really showing that I didn't climb on limestone at all last year isn't it?