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"Adult ADHD" (Read 19073 times)

mrjonathanr

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#25 Re: "Adult ADHD"
February 20, 2017, 04:41:23 pm
Psychology isn't medicine, psychiatry is.

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#26 Re: "Adult ADHD"
February 20, 2017, 05:38:54 pm
Psychology isn't medicine, psychiatry is.

But at least psychology is a science.. ;)

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#27 Re: "Adult ADHD"
February 20, 2017, 06:17:31 pm
My two cents..

I have been diagnosed previously, at around 30, as quite ADHD. At that point, I was interested in trying to understand if  I could potentially use medication to operate more "normally" - i.e. to spend less time feeling crushingly bored at work, and to be able to focus and concentrate better.

At times, my focus / concentration is woefully poor, and I find that it can frustrate me massively - imagine being almost pathologically unable to focus on tasks, even tasks that you want or need to focus on*.

As a result, I saw a psychiatrist, was diagnosed as severely ADHD and prescribed Ritalin.

It helped, in precisely the least helpful way. I was able to focus amazingly, but it meant that I'd get everything done in an hour and then have nothing to do for the rest of the day. Crushingly, crushingly boring. Pre-Ritalin, it would take me four to six 15 minute bursts of productivity to get everything done during the day - crushingly boring, but not quite as bad.

* Smartphones further inhibit my ability to concentrate - this has become an issue over the last year or so where I am bored at work and there is a culture of checking phones etc during meetings. My concentration span at the moment is probably worse than it's ever been, and it bothers me.

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#28 Re: "Adult ADHD"
February 20, 2017, 06:39:34 pm
My two cents..

I have been diagnosed previously, at around 30, as quite ADHD. At that point, I was interested in trying to understand if  I could potentially use medication to operate more "normally" - i.e. to spend less time feeling crushingly bored at work, and to be able to focus and concentrate better.

At times, my focus / concentration is woefully poor, and I find that it can frustrate me massively - imagine being almost pathologically unable to focus on tasks, even tasks that you want or need to focus on*.

As a result, I saw a psychiatrist, was diagnosed as severely ADHD and prescribed Ritalin.

It helped, in precisely the least helpful way. I was able to focus amazingly, but it meant that I'd get everything done in an hour and then have nothing to do for the rest of the day. Crushingly, crushingly boring. Pre-Ritalin, it would take me four to six 15 minute bursts of productivity to get everything done during the day - crushingly boring, but not quite as bad.

* Smartphones further inhibit my ability to concentrate - this has become an issue over the last year or so where I am bored at work and there is a culture of checking phones etc during meetings. My concentration span at the moment is probably worse than it's ever been, and it bothers me.

Are we related?

I managed to turn that type of behaviour to my advantage and built a career around a perceived ability to multitask...

I am almost incapable of finishing a job, but read three books and post on UKB simultaneously whilst I should be doing something else.
Currently getting the stink-eye in McDonalds, for instance, and should be discussing poorly son.
Have said "hang on a sec" three times in this post...


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the_dom

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#29 Re: "Adult ADHD"
February 20, 2017, 06:54:24 pm
..

Are we related?

I managed to turn that type of behaviour to my advantage and built a career around a perceived ability to multitask...

I am almost incapable of finishing a job, but read three books and post on UKB simultaneously whilst I should be doing something else.
Currently getting the stink-eye in McDonalds, for instance, and should be discussing poorly son.
Have said "hang on a sec" three times in this post...


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Yeah, me too - I've found that, when engaged, my levels of productivity are exceedingly high over short periods, where I will do more in an hour than colleagues will do in a day, but when not engaged / inspired, whole days will go by without productivity. Hence, I was an excellent, relatively happy strategy consultant, and am now a miserable, less productive corporate drone.

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#30 Re: "Adult ADHD"
February 20, 2017, 11:11:05 pm

Yeah, me too - I've found that, when engaged, my levels of productivity are exceedingly high over short periods, where I will do more in an hour than colleagues will do in a day, but when not engaged / inspired, whole days will go by without productivity. Hence, I was an excellent, relatively happy strategy consultant, and am now a miserable, less productive corporate drone.

I can relate to a lot of what you say in your posts wrt work; I have come to accept "peaks and troughs" in my focus and motivation at work. I have recently been experiencing a trough; hence my activity on here after a long lapse.

The context  was one of the things I struggled with about the diagnostic questionnaire linked to at the top;I don't have a problem with organisation or procrastination if it's involving a task I am highly motivated to complete, but some/many work tasks just sit on the back burner indefinitely. When I do finally get on with stuff I bust a gut to get it done, usually because a deadline has passed and I have angry clients (it's almost like I need the jeopardy of a looming crisis to perform).

I honestly hope you can improve your work situation in some way to make it more tolerable (or at least less miserable); I've been there and it sucks.

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#31 Re: "Adult ADHD"
February 21, 2017, 12:14:20 am
"Tom, you're somewhere on the spectrum - but who isn't..."

Everyone is on every spectrum of everything! This really annoys me.

Surely that's the definition of a spectrum...

Any, apologies for hijacking a very open, interesting and helpful thread!


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#32 Re: "Adult ADHD"
February 21, 2017, 08:36:59 am
This is a fascinating thread...

My two cents..

I have been diagnosed previously, at around 30, as quite ADHD. At that point, I was interested in trying to understand if  I could potentially use medication to operate more "normally" - i.e. to spend less time feeling crushingly bored at work, and to be able to focus and concentrate better.

At times, my focus / concentration is woefully poor, and I find that it can frustrate me massively - imagine being almost pathologically unable to focus on tasks, even tasks that you want or need to focus on*.

As a result, I saw a psychiatrist, was diagnosed as severely ADHD and prescribed Ritalin.

It helped, in precisely the least helpful way. I was able to focus amazingly, but it meant that I'd get everything done in an hour and then have nothing to do for the rest of the day. Crushingly, crushingly boring. Pre-Ritalin, it would take me four to six 15 minute bursts of productivity to get everything done during the day - crushingly boring, but not quite as bad.

* Smartphones further inhibit my ability to concentrate - this has become an issue over the last year or so where I am bored at work and there is a culture of checking phones etc during meetings. My concentration span at the moment is probably worse than it's ever been, and it bothers me.

I'm always flitting from one project to another (Dilettante someone once described it..) so in some ways being an academic can work really well for me (always juggling) though things often get left/wasted/forgotten about. I find attaching people to tasks helps me do them (e.g. this is for Chris, or I must review this for Jane etc..)...

I considered getting some ritalin on the black market to see whether it would give me some sort of super concentration boost, but never did - I always wondered what kind of mega academic I could be if I could focus all the time. So its really interesting your observation that by making you efficient it created a whole world of other problems!!

My own work/life patterns are characterised by days/weeks/months(?) of pontifcation and faffing about - interspersed by intense very short periods (may be an hour or an afternoon) where I get an enormous amount done. Though rather than see this as a problem, I now try and go with the flow - time has made me more confident and to feel less guilty about faffing about doing something else as I know I can (usually) get what needs to be done - done. Thats a horrible paragraph sorry! I've also come to appreciate that the non intense/faff time is really important for me to allow ideas to form, enable stuff to happen, to be creative. If there isnt that space then I'm too intense/focussed to work on something. I sometimes wonder if (putting a physicists hat on) I have a quantative theory of faff :)

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#33 Re: "Adult ADHD"
February 21, 2017, 08:48:01 am
it's almost like I need the jeopardy of a looming crisis to perform

This is me in a nutshell.

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#34 Re: "Adult ADHD"
February 21, 2017, 08:49:07 am
As another aside, I'm likely biased, but I'd go for a psychologist over a psychiatrist every time.

The former are much less likely to give a specific diagnosis, as opposed to the latter who can then prescribe if they've got a diagnosed condition.

That is to say a Psyschologist would probably say you have "trouble maintaining focus for extended periods of time and sometimes struggle to blah blah blah", whereas a Psychiartrist would go "You have ADHD - take ritalin".

[/generalisations]
It's not really appropriate to generalise what the two disciplines would do because it perpetuates the misunderstanding of what the roles are. A psychiatrist is a medical doctor in the UK. Some do take a specialist interest in psychology sometimes but they focus on people who are mentally ill. They give drugs to people who need it because they can be at risk to themselves and others. They also balance these drugs against other medication they might be taking (sounds like science to me TT). Unless the psychologist is also a medical doctor they need direct authorisation from one who is one. From what I understand of psychology their job in the UK is to understand behaviors and to suggest a plan to address this; like suggesting Ritalin through a GP/hospital doctor. It's also worth noting that the two disciplines can work side by side.
The confusion comes from the roles in America that we see in movies perhaps?

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#35 Re: "Adult ADHD"
February 21, 2017, 09:05:46 am
They give drugs to people who need it because they can be at risk to themselves and others. They also balance these drugs against other medication they might be taking (sounds like science to me TT).

Just engineering - fixing problems not understanding why they are there ;)



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#36 Re: "Adult ADHD"
February 21, 2017, 09:07:53 am
They give drugs to people who need it because they can be at risk to themselves and others. They also balance these drugs against other medication they might be taking (sounds like science to me TT).

Just engineering - fixing problems not understanding why they are there ;)



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#37 Re: "Adult ADHD"
February 21, 2017, 09:20:12 am
As another aside, I'm likely biased, but I'd go for a psychologist over a psychiatrist every time.

The former are much less likely to give a specific diagnosis, as opposed to the latter who can then prescribe if they've got a diagnosed condition.

That is to say a Psyschologist would probably say you have "trouble maintaining focus for extended periods of time and sometimes struggle to blah blah blah", whereas a Psychiartrist would go "You have ADHD - take ritalin".

[/generalisations]
It's not really appropriate to generalise what the two disciplines would do because it perpetuates the misunderstanding of what the roles are. A psychiatrist is a medical doctor in the UK. Some do take a specialist interest in psychology sometimes but they focus on people who are mentally ill. They give drugs to people who need it because they can be at risk to themselves and others. They also balance these drugs against other medication they might be taking (sounds like science to me TT). Unless the psychologist is also a medical doctor they need direct authorisation from one who is one. From what I understand of psychology their job in the UK is to understand behaviors and to suggest a plan to address this; like suggesting Ritalin through a GP/hospital doctor. It's also worth noting that the two disciplines can work side by side.
The confusion comes from the roles in America that we see in movies perhaps?

To a degree yes - though from my other half's experience (mostly in paediatric psychology), mostly due to time & budget restraints cuts in the NHS, medication is way over prescribed as it's essentially viewed as a "quick fix", when often for some conditions it's a mask rather than a cure.
Common example being depression where a lot of people get stuck on anti-depressants, whereas a talking therapy is clinically proven (and NICE guidelines best practise) to be more effective in long term prevention.
The difficulty is, at minimum you'd need 6x 1-hour sessions of CBT and other such therapies, compared to 1x 15-minute consultation and subsequent prescription from a psychiatrist.So for target-focused, money-limited NHS trust managers, which is the more efficient to pursue?

In some (usually more extreme) circumstances, as you say, both work together; e.g. if severely depressed, anti-depressants would help the client to function at a level where they can then engage with CBT.

My better half doesn't deal much with ADHD (or more likely it's co-morbid with other symptoms she does address), and this could well be that this is because it's one of the cases where medication is more effective than other therapies. Hold my hands up on this and go with an "I don't know".

To clarify - and perhaps I'm reading this wrong - but "they focus on people who are mentally ill" suggests psychologists don't?

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#38 Re: "Adult ADHD"
February 21, 2017, 10:10:27 am
Just took that adhd test (bored at work...) and scored very low, nil points.

I'm unconvinced by this sort of self-assessment though. Perhaps someone who knows me well would score me differently?

The descriptions of people who procrastinate and do a hundred different things resonate with me. I find myself leaving important jobs to a late hour and then boshing it out. I don't think this is a particularly unusual trait, or indicative of anything 'disorderly'.

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#39 Re: "Adult ADHD"
February 21, 2017, 10:26:17 am
Just took that adhd test (bored at work...) and scored very low, nil points.

I'm unconvinced by this sort of self-assessment though. Perhaps someone who knows me well would score me differently?

The descriptions of people who procrastinate and do a hundred different things resonate with me. I find myself leaving important jobs to a late hour and then boshing it out. I don't think this is a particularly unusual trait, or indicative of anything 'disorderly'.
normal life isn't it, unless you live in an episode of friends and enjoy your job...

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#40 Re: "Adult ADHD"
February 21, 2017, 10:33:54 am
Very much +1 this:
I'm always flitting from one project to another (Dilettante someone once described it..) so in some ways being an academic can work really well for me (always juggling) though things often get left/wasted/forgotten about. I find attaching people to tasks helps me do them (e.g. this is for Chris, or I must review this for Jane etc..)...

and this:
My own work/life patterns are characterised by days/weeks/months(?) of pontifcation and faffing about - interspersed by intense very short periods (may be an hour or an afternoon) where I get an enormous amount done. Though rather than see this as a problem, I now try and go with the flow - time has made me more confident and to feel less guilty about faffing about doing something else as I know I can (usually) get what needs to be done - done. Thats a horrible paragraph sorry! I've also come to appreciate that the non intense/faff time is really important for me to allow ideas to form, enable stuff to happen, to be creative. If there isnt that space then I'm too intense/focussed to work on something. I sometimes wonder if (putting a physicists hat on) I have a quantative theory of faff :)
This is kind of what I was getting at earlier on in the thread about  "peaks and troughs"; I've come to accept this over time and don't beat myself up about it so much. My current role lets me get into more strategic organisational busdev thinking/planning now, which I find helps; I have options for what I want to tackle on any given day to suit my mood/motivational status.

It took a while for me to realise that the "daydreaming" I was criticised for in academia is what I absolutely require for creative thought. I do a lot of work with numbers in a "pseudo-science" Consultancy way (i.e. massaging data to please clients/meet clients objectives - I'm a realist too...) and I can only think numerically for so long before I need to tune out and have a creative drift off.

Less so this!
I considered getting some ritalin on the black market to see whether it would give me some sort of super concentration boost.

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#41 Re: "Adult ADHD"
February 21, 2017, 10:41:20 am
Just took that adhd test (bored at work...) and scored very low, nil points.

I'm unconvinced by this sort of self-assessment though. Perhaps someone who knows me well would score me differently?

The descriptions of people who procrastinate and do a hundred different things resonate with me. I find myself leaving important jobs to a late hour and then boshing it out. I don't think this is a particularly unusual trait, or indicative of anything 'disorderly'.
normal life isn't it, unless you live in an episode of friends and enjoy your job...

I would like to put it on record that I don't live in an episode of "Friends" but still find my job rewarding enough to continue turning up.

I'd rather be doing something else with my 5/7 if money was no object, but I don't want to give the impression that I believe there is some magical mental "state" of order that will make all of my (largely perception based) "problems" go away!

I'm really enjoying this thread (am I allowed to say that?) despite having some anxiety that many will simply judge me as a self interested navel gazing idiot.

Thanks again for everyone's input and comments. Any hints or tips on everyday management strategies gratefully received. Particularly related to "training" seeing as we're in the diet, training and injuries section!

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#42 Re: "Adult ADHD"
February 21, 2017, 12:53:34 pm
This is a really interesting thread - I'm at work so will try and add to it at greater length when I have some time.  One of the things that jumped out though is this idea of pathologizing normal behaviour e.g boredom at work, procrastination, day dreaming etc.  None of these are pathologies and to do class then so is really misleading.  It's what lies behind the mass mis-diagnosis of ADHD in children in the US.

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#43 Re: "Adult ADHD"
February 21, 2017, 01:04:46 pm
Absolutely agree with this, which is why I referenced my family experience in the US in my first post. I struggle a bit with the phrase "normal behaviour"; what's the official phrasing of this - something like "within median population parameters"?

One of the things that jumped out though is this idea of pathologizing normal behaviour e.g boredom at work, procrastination, day dreaming etc.  None of these are pathologies and to do class then so is really misleading.  It's what lies behind the mass mis-diagnosis of ADHD in children in the US.

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#44 Re: "Adult ADHD"
February 21, 2017, 01:09:51 pm
This is a really interesting thread - I'm at work so will try and add to it at greater length when I have some time.  One of the things that jumped out though is this idea of pathologizing normal behaviour e.g boredom at work, procrastination, day dreaming etc.  None of these are pathologies and to do class then so is really misleading.  It's what lies behind the mass mis-diagnosis of ADHD in children in the US.

Agreed. But I'm amazed at the similarities of personality types, amongst "the usual suspects" of the forum (though it shouldn't be a great revelation (despite obvious and numerous differences, I'm sure)).

I don't think you can count them as "normal" traits though, at least they seem to be minority characteristics in my experience. I for one, drive friends and family up the wall with behaviours similar to those described in this thread.

For interest.

How common do you all feel your behaviour is amongst :

A: your peers?
B: your family ?
C: Society at large?


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#45 Re: "Adult ADHD"
February 21, 2017, 02:13:12 pm
Quote from: Oldmanmatt link=topic=27850.msg545614#msg545614 But I'm amazed at the similarities of personality types, amongst [b
"the usual suspects" of the forum[/b] (though it shouldn't be a great revelation (despite obvious and numerous differences, I'm sure)).

Surely spending a lot of time on this forum in the first place is a characteristic of bored / daydreaming / procrastinating people, so probably not the best sample group.

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#46 Re: "Adult ADHD"
February 21, 2017, 02:58:30 pm

A: your peers?
B: your family ?
C: Society at large?



Normal.
Normal.
Normal.

I don't think I'm any different in any major way to anyone. Nor do I imagine probably are you, or anyone else on this forum. I'm sure you know people who drive you up the wall for whatever reason. That's just people.

That said, there's a guy at work (doesn't work for me, but within the larger company) who's been diagnosed with adhd and he's most definitely noticeably different and can be quite hard to deal with if you don't know - verbally aggressive, erratic, argumentative and very hyper-active sometimes. Very good at his job of building things. Total nightmare if ever left in a position where he can talk to clients.

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#47 Re: "Adult ADHD"
February 21, 2017, 03:09:04 pm
That said, there's a guy at work (doesn't work for me, but within the larger company) who's been diagnosed with adhd and he's most definitely noticeably different and can be quite hard to deal with if you don't know - verbally aggressive, erratic, argumentative and very hyper-active sometimes. Very good at his job of building things. Total nightmare if ever left in a position where he can talk to clients.
That sounds worryingly like me! 3 coffees are too many for me as I discovered this am. Definitely made me more irascible in a very dry meeting.

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#48 Re: "Adult ADHD"
February 21, 2017, 06:09:31 pm
This is a really interesting thread - I'm at work so will try and add to it at greater length when I have some time.  One of the things that jumped out though is this idea of pathologizing normal behaviour e.g boredom at work, procrastination, day dreaming etc.  None of these are pathologies and to do class then so is really misleading.  It's what lies behind the mass mis-diagnosis of ADHD in children in the US.
And now in the U.K.

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#49 Re: "Adult ADHD"
February 21, 2017, 06:13:35 pm
Psychology isn't medicine, psychiatry is.

But at least psychology is a science.. ;)
A science that's appears unable to replicate any of its studies or tests. ;D

 

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