[fatneck]

Following on from some comments on the BMC thread, noteably...

Talking to Steve Dunning at the Depot a lot of the newcomers seemed surprised that a. people climbed outside b. would want to and c. would travel the world to do so.

I was genuinely surprised by this and whilst I know there are a lot of new climbers who don't climb outside, I kind of felt they knew that it was based on "real" climbing and would somehow aspire to do this eventually...

The future of British climbing is indoors. What it lacks (other than the Schoolroom) is set problems/routes that never change, that would be as memorable a 'tick' as if it were an outdoor climb.

This got me thinking and actually quite psyched for the idea!

Each wall could set "test-pieces" maybe based around the rock type and climbing styles available in the area? Some sad person with more time than me could create a guidebook to these problems - it would be amazing!

Questions

• I assume the holds in the School Room don't get cleaned/changed. Is this because they are predominantly wooden?
• If using resin holds, would these need to be changed/cleaned?And how would you mitigate for cleaning of holds!?
• Would the grade change by the number of attempts/ascents since last cleansing!?
• Am I taking this far too seriously?

[dave]

I assume the holds in the School Room don't get cleaned/changed. Is this because they are predominantly wooden?

The holds on the two main old boards are not changed (but do get added to occasionally). This is because they don't need changing or cleaning. You brush the holds like you would outside.

If using resin holds, would these need to be changed/cleaned?And how would you mitigate for cleaning of holds!?

If people brush their own chalk off, they won't need cleaning.

Would the grade change by the number of attempts/ascents since last cleansing!?

You're looking at it from the wrong end. The grade initially might be different to when the holds have been used and bedded in. But that's normal, the grade once bedded in and used becomes the normal grade.

Am I taking this far too seriously?

Certainly.


What you've got to remember is some walls already have permanent testpieces. There are some features-only problems on the Foundry, and old bendcrete walls like Eldon Square in newcastle are 99% permanent problems. These don't need climbing they just stay up and nobody expects them to be like they were brand new.[/list]

[SA Chris]

If only someone could come up with a standard template for a bouldering wall, and use the same set of holds and document a set of problems online so everyone could try them and claim they are all undergraded.

[Falling Down]

 

[fatneck]

What you've got to remember is some walls already have permanent testpieces. There are some features-only problems on the Foundry, and old bendcrete walls like Eldon Square in newcastle are 99% permanent problems. These don't need climbing they just stay up and nobody expects them to be like they were brand new

Indeed, I am reminded of my favourite ever indoor resin wall that used to be at The Awful - still got a piece of that knocking around somewhere. So many conditions dependant classic problems!!!

[fried]

I see climbing wall chains with hold databases that allow setters to quickly reproduce problems on any of their walls in the near future. If they don't already exist. That would save some money.

[Bonjoy]

This idea of permanent high quality problems as sought after artificial testpieces is the future I reckon. There's no practical reason (I'm deliberately ignoring the financial side for now) why an artificial climb can't be a thing of sublime beauty. Someone needs to buy one of those huge inflatable domes that get used as leisure centres and fill it full of artificial boulders with fixed lines carefully designed on CAD first and then lovingingly and paintakingly crafted onto them out of best quality hold resin. Lines as good and better than anything outside. Copy nature and improve on it. Maybe have replica classics from all over the world. Call the place King-lines or something.
Just like people laugh now at the notion of outcrop climbing as only training for the mountains, or bouldering as only training for routes, so people will laugh at the idea of walls as primarily training facilities with throw-away nameless climbs of transitory aesthetic value. Problem designers will be the DJs of climbing.

[SA Chris]

Just 3d scan classic problems and 3d print them. Simple.

(no I don't think really think it's that simple).

[Mark Lloyd]

If only someone could come up with a standard template for a bouldering wall, and use the same set of holds and document a set of problems online so everyone could try them and claim they are all undergraded.

Isn't that a moon board

Did the Climbing works have a replica of west side story once, maybe they could continue with the theme and
have a boulder of the month,  a replica of a classic problem

[Will Hunt]

If only someone could come up with a standard template for a bouldering wall, and use the same set of holds and document a set of problems online so everyone could try them and claim they are all undergraded.

Isn't that a moon board

That was the joke 

[slackline]

 

[Muenchener]

I'm not normally a fan of plastic routes, but was peeved to arrive at the wall last night and find my proj was no more. It had some really nice varied moves, a proper comfy shake-out jug between the technical crux and the redpoint crux - just generally good routesettng.

But there's a whole level of intricacy that the current technology of bolting standardised things onto a flat surface can't even approximate: range of possibilities for the feet, best part of the handhold always different and often not visible from below etc.

people will laugh at the idea of walls as primarily training facilities

Walls are primarily entertainment facilities, any coincidental value they might have for training is already very secondary.

[Muenchener]

• If using resin holds, would these need to be changed/cleaned?And how would you mitigate for cleaning of holds!?
• Would the grade change by the number of attempts/ascents since last cleansing!?

I can't see the lifespan of heavily climbed on resin being much of a problem compared to the lifespan of heavily climbed on limestone, and with resin it's a lot easier to do something about it.

[Bonjoy]

people will laugh at the idea of walls as primarily training facilities

Walls are primarily entertainment facilities, any coincidental value they might have for training is already very secondary.

I guess it depends who you ask. I don't think we're at the point where walls being mainly for training is a laughable idea.

[Durbs]

I think that broadly depends on where in the country the wall is...

Bit of a sweeping generalisation, but I would imagine most London/Surrey regulars haven't/won't take their climbing outdoors - so "indoor climbing" is it's own thing, rather than training for outdoors beyond any "generally makes you a bit better" as opposed to "actively trying to get stronger".

[Muenchener]

Precisely the point I was trying to make. In many or most places, it's already its own thing and people who are primarily interested in training for rock are already a minority (perhaps not in the Works just yet) and modern setting style increasingly reflects that.

[nai]

• If using resin holds, would these need to be changed/cleaned?And how would you mitigate for cleaning of holds!?
• Would the grade change by the number of attempts/ascents since last cleansing!?

I can't see the lifespan of heavily climbed on resin being much of a problem compared to the lifespan of heavily climbed on limestone, and with resin it's a lot easier to do something about it.

Yep, The Wave is in better nick despite being 25 years old than routes on (e.g.) Garage that are only 2-3 years old (and mostly held together by resin anyway)

[Mark Lloyd]

If only someone could come up with a standard template for a bouldering wall, and use the same set of holds and document a set of problems online so everyone could try them and claim they are all undergraded.

Isn't that a moon board

That was the joke 

Like my climbing

Moonys got form on undergrading hubble 8c+ my arse

[mrjonathanr]

Just looked at this thread. Basically, Broughton.

http://broughtonpower.wikifoundry-mobile.com/m/

Unfortunately the link to the problem guide in excel 'Nick's problem page' seems bust, though it's on my pic somewhere. Interestingly my coop is listed as a rockfax crag, maybe it is the future after all....tbh if that's so, I'm stuck firmly in the past.

[fatneck]

Yes!! Loved Broughton wall on the few occasions I have been able to visit... Is it still going?

[tommytwotone]

If only someone could come up with a standard template for a bouldering wall, and use the same set of holds and document a set of problems online so everyone could try them and claim they are all undergraded.

Isn't that a moon board

Did the Climbing works have a replica of west side story once, maybe they could continue with the theme and
have a boulder of the month,  a replica of a classic problem

Back in 2007 The Westway did this, with not replicas but attempts to get close as possible to the moves and style of (from memory) Peak classics like Strawberries, Trackside and Deliverance. Needless to say that despite being able to do laps on Trackside at Curbar, I got totally shut down by the indoor "equivalent".

[mrjonathanr]

Yes!! Loved Broughton wall on the few occasions I have been able to visit... Is it still going?

No, the council shut and sold the building a couple of years ago.

[Mark Lloyd]

Yes!! Loved Broughton wall on the few occasions I have been able to visit... Is it still going?

No, the council shut and sold the building a couple of years ago.

What happened to the bendcrete wall ?

[jfdm]

If only someone could come up with a standard template for a bouldering wall, and use the same set of holds and document a set of problems online so everyone could try them and claim they are all undergraded.

Isn't that a moon board

Did the Climbing works have a replica of west side story once, maybe they could continue with the theme and
have a boulder of the month,  a replica of a classic problem

Back in 2007 The Westway did this, with not replicas but attempts to get close as possible to the moves and style of (from memory) Peak classics like Strawberries, Trackside and Deliverance. Needless to say that despite being able to do laps on Trackside at Curbar, I got totally shut down by the indoor "equivalent".

Font replica westway 2008 with the g man

I think classic replicas would be great, mentioned this before.
Response always, indoors based on outdoor problems, so already being done.
But it would nice to put a name to a problem, rather just a number.

[mrjonathanr]

Still there as far as I know but premises were due to be taken over by an IT company of some sort. I took a bit of footage of r-man and a few other regulars just before it shut so guess there'll be a date on video clips, can't recall exactly.