[shark]

This is a genuine question directed mainly to non-members but also to members i.e. Did you join because of a direct benefit or requirement or out of general support for the (good) things it is doing?

It was prompted by chatting with Tomtom and Jim yesterday and I was surprised that both being keen climbers (so beneficiaries of access etc) weren't members and wouldn't consider joining unless there was a direct benefit to them (thanks for your honesty). I'm sure both can afford the £31.45 pa.

If that is generally the case then to increase membership (the main source of income) then there should be a greater emphasis on direct benefits rather than doing general good and expecting people to join. Or perhaps the direct benefit is the nudge and then members stay for the general good. Just trying to get my head around it 

Might post a poll later on a separate thread.

[cheque]

wouldn't consider joining unless there was a direct benefit to them (thanks for your honesty). I'm sure both can afford the £31.45 pa.

You don't have to make that much use of the discount to make the £30 back.

[Teaboy]

 I've been a full member for about 10 years. I joined and am a member purely to contribute to their access work. I guess living in (near) Manchester I'm more familiar with BMC and the people who work there so maybe that helps but I do wonder why people with a reasonable income and for whom climbing is one of the most important things going on for them (outside of the usual family, work etc) don't contribute/join.

That said I'm a very sporadic giver to bolt funds when I should give a lot more so maybe it's just a case of people not being badgered to join in the same way I give to bolt funds if someone comes rattling a tin but don't seek them out

[Oldmanmatt]

I was since age 16 (we, as a family too until ~3years ago). Then basically stopped going into the mountains to "dangerous" things and didn't need the insurance so much and (honestly) forgot to renew a couple years ago. It's been on the "must remember that, when I've got the money" list ever since. It never seemed relevant enough to spend the money (we have none spare).
When I was setting up the wall, we got short shrift from the BMC climbing wall rep at the time. The SW rep was AWOL. We were simply left with the impression that as a Bouldering wall, we were slightly less welcome than a stale dog turd through the letter box.
(It was a lot more complicated than those few sentences imply, but not all appropriate to detail here. I had a conversation with another wall owning UKBer on the subject and spoke to several other wall owners before coming to that conclusion).

So, being me, I kinda decided to ignore them right back.

Also, when I asked for materials etc to display to support them, I was told we could pay them £Xhundred if we wanted to be affiliated (or some such). I bought some more holds instead.

And so on.

However, there is a new BMC SW rep and a meeting in the Quay tonight and I'm going (as in I will be joining again) and have agreed to start promoting the organisation again at the wall.

To be clear, it was never a deliberate boycott! It was just too difficult to get anywhere, to sacrifice the time needed to organise anything; it never seemed relevant to Bouldering. It just wasn't imminent in our world anymore. If it wasn't for the YCS, there would be no contact at all.

Mark is the first rep to even bother to send us an email, in the four years we've been open. How about that for missed recruiting opportunities? We bring hundreds of new climbers into the sport every year, but...
(Of course, to many, that makes us "the Bad Guys").




All posts either sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek or mildly mocking-in-a-friendly-way unless otherwise stated. I always forget to put those smiley things...

[remus]

I hope this thread doesn't get too preachy, it'd be genuinely interesting to hear why people do/don't sign up.

Personally I signed up mainly for the insurance, the annual package thing covers my needs pretty nicely. I've got a lot of time for their access work as well. I hope that even if I didnt need the insurance Id sign up to support their access work.

[tomtom]

.

[dunnyg]

Signed up for insurance pretty much. Usually do atleast 1 trip a year so on the direct debit train. Been to a few meetings but stopped going as they didnt seem overly relavent and the meetongs moved further away.

[Fultonius]

I've been a member on and off for 10 years, mainly off. I usually join when I need insurance. This last time I joined the MCofS instead and I'll probably join the SMC this spring.

Up here North of the Wall the BMC doesn't really do much. I prefer my money to stay more local and still get insurance through them anyway, if I don't just go Austrian Alpine Club.

[Duma]

Joined for the Cheddar access stuff. I know I should have anyway, but that was what gave me the nudge.

[shark]

I hope this thread doesn't get too preachy, it'd be genuinely interesting to hear why people do/don't sign up.

+1

Thinking back to my experiences (journey) I had a very poor view of the BMC when I was young. As a local new router in the Peak in my twenties I felt all CC, BMC type organisations were for old men and contrary to the individualist nature of the sport. In particular I thought "fuck them" when I heard that a Peak Area meet had "decided" that there was a ban on any bolting at High Tor (irrespective of whether it affected existing routes or not). If I had "joined" at any point it would have been purely to do with getting insurance.

When they started a bolt fund I started warming to the organisation but still had nothing to do with them. The only BMC area meet was in 2003?. I went in case my removal of the chockstone on Right Eliminate came up. It did.

When Mike was selling UKB 5 years ago the BMC approached Mike potentially with a view to saving or supporting the site if required as a kind of Community asset. They stepped aside when Toby and I made an offer but I thought it was very forward thinking of them to even contemplate such a move. I then met Dave Turnbull (Chief Exec) for the first time and they became the first UKB sponsor. Naturally I joined as a member and have remained a member, started going to Area Meetings and becoming increasingly involved.   

 
   

[Oldmanmatt]

There exists the possibility we (you Simon) are now the old men...


All posts either sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek or mildly mocking-in-a-friendly-way unless otherwise stated. I always forget to put those smiley things...

[shark]

There exists the possibility we (you Simon) are now the old men...

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about

[tomtom]

There exists the possibility we (you Simon) are now the old men...

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about

Well if you needed a sign of getting old...

[highrepute]

I joined to support the cause, quite a few years ago now. Obvious that the BMC have done a lot for access to crags around sheffield/manchester.

I thought you could get their insurance without being a member, is that wrong?

I've been to chedder so the liability insurance has come in useful but wasn't of interest when i joined.

I do enjoy reading the mag.

Have you asked the same Q on ukc simon?

[Offwidth]

As a PhD student I ended up being armed twisted into helping with my Uni club and stayed that way for 16 years. After the first year it was obvious that the club would benefit massively from the BMC in terms of insurance, practical help with dealing with the idiots in the SU and with training, especially winter and Conville. I held off being a full member as it appeared the organisation was a bit old fashioned and introspective from visits to BMC events and overhearing the Ken Wilson type clique politicing too loadly in climbing bars. Things changed when John Horsecroft took over the peak area meetings (it became more friendly and directly challenged the old buggers) and improved again when Dave became CEO. Hence, I joined as an idividual as well and have supported them as much as I can since. No point talking fully about benefits as it a bit like Life of Brian what did the romans ever do for us? The most important to me is access and volunteer coordination and support.

I think they usually do a really good job juggling difficult pressures from the different areas they work with and I get pissed off when single issue folk get disproportionately  ratty and threaten them (eg over Climb Britain.. which looked like an honest old fashioned cock up rather than a major conspiricy). Its slightly depressing that so many climbers and hillwalkers who could easily afford to join don't,  but thats a sign of our society... too many people cant be arsed to do stuff.

[andy popp]

You mean actually join an organization that is prepared to employ Grimer?

[T_B]

I'm a member through my club, not sure what extra I'd get with full membership? I get Summit anyway as I advertise in it.

Obvs lots of ways to try and boost membership. The website not being responsive nor even having a mobile version can't help. I'd expect at least a third of traffic should be from mobile but seeing as the site is unusable...

Summit is fab and the BMCs social media communications are excellent but when it comes to the means of actually taking out membership, there's way too much "friction".

[abarro81]

I originally joined when I was 18 for the insurance for my first foreign trips. I stayed partly for the insurance and partly to help fund the access stuff. Then I stopped using the insurance because
- it seemed to get more expensive
- I realised how many other (cheaper) providers would cover what I wanted to do
- they changed their trip limits so it's now crap for big trips

I stayed a member anyway but then didn't renew last year as I was away (wasn't on direct debit as I was a student and IIRC the cheaper DD deal didn't apply to students) and haven't gotten around to doing it since I came back.

[shark]

nor even having a mobile version can't help. I'd expect at least a third of traffic should be from mobile but seeing as the site is unusable...

I believe the mobile version is imminent

[shark]

Have you asked the same Q on ukc simon?

Noooo.

Thanks for all the responses so far. Really helpful. Keep them coming

[Andy B]

Originally joined for the insurance but found that it stopped being competitive with other providers quite a while ago. Have been a member for the last 8-10 years entirely to support the access, conservation and guidebook work, and in spite of some other activities, for example those which could be seen as "promoting" climbing.

[shurt]

Joined for the Cheddar access stuff. I know I should have anyway, but that was what gave me the nudge.

Same here. I only joined for Cheddar insurance i.e. technically you can't climb there without it as a condition of access. Im glad I'm a member now after a few years on a DD and can see the advantages. I climbed for years without membership and (personally) think I shouldn't have. They do great stuff for access to crags and should be supported. I'm not here demanding people join btw

[shark]

I thought you could get their insurance without being a member, is that wrong?

You have to be a member

[dave]

Isn't the insurance story something along the lines of the premiums rocketed a few years back when professional chancer Bear Grylls demanded an arguably unnecessary helicopter rescue from Antarctica, and hence fucked it up for everyone else?

I can't remember why I joined, but I support the BMC primarily for the access work and guidebooks, and I think that frankly nobody operating in the Peak today can afford not to support the BMCs access work.

I am not mega happy about the BMCs involvement in comps though, which essentially promote climbing and may prove to cause long term access and sustainability issues themselves, although I understand most of this is probably the undesirable side of otherwise valuable sport england funding etc etc or something.

[Dolly]

Isn't the insurance story something along the lines of the premiums rocketed a few years back when professional chancer Bear Grylls demanded an arguably unnecessary helicopter rescue from Antarctica, and hence fucked it up for everyone else?

I can't remember why I joined, but I support the BMC primarily for the access work and guidebooks, and I think that frankly nobody operating in the Peak today can afford not to support the BMCs access work.

I am not mega happy about the BMCs involvement in comps though, which essentially promote climbing and may prove to cause long term access and sustainability issues themselves, although I understand most of this is probably the undesirable side of otherwise valuable sport england funding etc etc or something.

+1