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U-S-A! The American Politics Thread. (Read 499935 times)

Oldmanmatt

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#701 Re: Trump
July 14, 2018, 06:04:06 pm

Are you actually fucking mad or is it just an act?


Anyone who posts anywhere under childish pseudonyms deserves to be entirely ignored. OMM, good opnion pieces on this by Martin Kettle and Simon Jenkins in the Gruniad in the last few days.

This is the sort of pettiness I was talking about haha

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#702 Re: Trump
July 14, 2018, 07:04:26 pm
One of the the dumbest, least thoughtful takes on the Trump presidency yet. Yes, I know you're going to say I've proved you right, but you'd be wrong about that too.

Oldmanmatt

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#703 Re: Trump
July 14, 2018, 08:03:08 pm

Are you actually fucking mad or is it just an act?


Anyone who posts anywhere under childish pseudonyms deserves to be entirely ignored. OMM, good opnion pieces on this by Martin Kettle and Simon Jenkins in the Gruniad in the last few days.

This is the sort of pettiness I was talking about haha

As opposed to picking Mugabe as a user name...

Compensating for something?

Actually, let’s be clear here.
Supporting Trum makes you a complete imbecile. A sycophantic little dweeb unable to deal with your pathetic insecurities and fears of “foreigners”. A person who lauds a petty gangster and traitor. An idiot of the highest (lowest) order.
A sheep. A follower and a disgusting waste of space.
Mugabe, was worse. So you are a complete moron.

I’m not hard to find. I have no problem relaying that to you in person if you can dig yourself out of your fake persona and come out from behind your cowardly pseudonym.
You’re one of those people that followed the school bully around saying “yeah! Wot he said” aren’t you?

There’s nothing petty about this, but you are quite pathetic to hide and sling shit.

Edit:
I should add something. To everyone else, I don’t normally lose my rag on the forumand I’m not a seething mass of anger pounding the keys now, either.
Enough is enough. Trump is not a joke and real people are being harmed in very real ways. Twats like Mugabe facilitate that. How long should people continue to be civil in the face of this? In the face of blatant facistic, white supremist, evil?
And this is not going to improve soon, if ever.
So, you either support it, or condemn it utterly, because anything else is tacitly and consciously allowing it to happen.

It seems recognised that a facist regime needs only the support of 35-40% of a population to be able to take control, as long as 10-20% sit idle.
Eventually, the responsibility falls to the ordinary people to confront it as best they can.
 
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 08:24:55 pm by Oldmanmatt »

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#704 Re: Trump
July 14, 2018, 09:36:52 pm
Andy,

assuming you are still there;

how is the UK anti-trump protest stuff being reported and received in the USA?

on a local scale (Sheffield); even the church-going old ladies on our street think our Lord Mayor is doing the right thing by banning Trump from the city

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#705 Re: Trump
July 14, 2018, 10:06:36 pm
Matt,

And here come the histrionics. While you can sit and complain about how Trump is the worst world leader since Hitler impotently tapping away at your keyboard, you accomplish nothing. I don't even think you care about real atrocities, because if you did, you would most probably not focus solely on the USA. Just like those children masquerading as adults protesting down in London, you're really just a hateful person and Trump (who has in reality done nothing notable since election day, but it's as if he may as well have genocided an entire country and called for "race-based detainment camps") gives you a socially-accepted outlet for your behavior.

Trump is no different to any world leader, yet emotional, reaction-prone people like yourself get angry enough about him to threaten and assume the character of complete strangers over the internet who don't quite boil with the same anger as you. Did I even once suggest that I support Donald Trump? You assume that I do, surely. I don't. Frankly, I don't care about the current leadership; I had more of a problem with Obama and Cameron funding Al Nusra, the FSA and other Sunni terrorist groups in Syria and Iraq but I didn't see anybody protesting those things funnily enough.

By the way, I don't care about your threats or what you might call me. You're nobody. I don't want to meet you in person and hear about what you think either; your opinions are as valuable to me as dog poo on the pavement. And from our short exchange on here, and your propensity for completely unwarranted hateful outbursts, I don't think you're the kind of person I would have any time for in the first place.  :sorry:

Enjoy your weekend xx

Oldmanmatt

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#706 Re: Trump
July 14, 2018, 10:21:04 pm
Matt,

And here come the histrionics. While you can sit and complain about how Trump is the worst world leader since Hitler impotently tapping away at your keyboard, you accomplish nothing. I don't even think you care about real atrocities, because if you did, you would most probably not focus solely on the USA. Just like those children masquerading as adults protesting down in London, you're really just a hateful person and Trump (who has in reality done nothing notable since election day, but it's as if he may as well have genocided an entire country and called for "race-based detainment camps") gives you a socially-accepted outlet for your behavior.

Trump is no different to any world leader, yet emotional, reaction-prone people like yourself get angry enough about him to threaten and assume the character of complete strangers over the internet who don't quite boil with the same anger as you. Did I even once suggest that I support Donald Trump? You assume that I do, surely. I don't. Frankly, I don't care about the current leadership; I had more of a problem with Obama and Cameron funding Al Nusra, the FSA and other Sunni terrorist groups in Syria and Iraq but I didn't see anybody protesting those things funnily enough.

By the way, I don't care about your threats or what you might call me. You're nobody. I don't want to meet you in person and hear about what you think either; your opinions are as valuable to me as dog poo on the pavement. And from our short exchange on here, and your propensity for completely unwarranted hateful outbursts, I don't think you're the kind of person I would have any time for in the first place.  :sorry:

Enjoy your weekend xx

Cowardly and complicit.
And the user name Mugabe.
You paint the picture sunshine, not me.
You decided to brand everyone who opposes Trump as “embarrassing”, “Histrionic” Liberals.
I brand you an enabler.
This thread is a discussion about Trump, currently the leader of the world’s most powerful and heavily armed nation. That is why the comments here are directed to him and the USA, not the entirety of global politics or machinations, nor the sins of previous administrations.
Your argument that seems to boil down to “Other people are/have been naughty too”, is pretty weak.
And really, those immigration detention centers, that he most certainly has created; are rather similar to “race based detention camps” (I think that’s what you called them, trying to imply they don’t exist).
I think there’s a few on this forum who have some knowledge of the nastier machinations of the governments around the world. Some of us even have some considerable knowledge of Middle Eastern politics (if that’s actually possible). Some who really, really, understand history (with the same proviso as the Mid East Politics).

Further, pretty sure you haven’t read most of this discussion, since there is barely a mention of the protests, I have stated that I don’t see the issue as confined to the US (I think the right is quite well organised, across the globe. Probably an uneasy alliance of contrary twats, akin to herding cats, but organised well enough to be a threat) and I also posited that the orange wanker was not the one pulling the strings.
Now, do you believe for one second, that given the opportunity; some of those lovely “devout” and “loving” christians standing behind him and sitting in his cabinet; would not actually be stoning Gays to death? Or any of the other ridiculous and barbaric crap their holy book calls for?
Because I think they would.
I’ve watched religious extremists “execute” infidels. Sunni killing Shia in Iraq (and vice versa) and Christians killing Muslim on the edge of Europe.
And, frankly, I’m quite aware of where their weapons came from. Yet I still think “Trump” and what he represents/fronts is a greater threat to the world today.
Your trivialisation of him and his cronies are what I and others are calling out. 
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 10:53:50 pm by Oldmanmatt »

Oldmanmatt

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#707 Re: Trump
July 14, 2018, 11:27:25 pm
One last thing, Mugabe, I didn’t threaten you. I said I’d be willing to tell you all this to your face, not from the safety an anonymous username.
I suppose it’s possible to twist what I wrote up into a threat of violence, obviously; after all that’s what us histrionic Liberals are all about after all.
(Schrodinger’s Liberal: simultaneously weak, empathic and easily hurt, yet given to violent, hateful, outbursts).
But, I was simply refering to the being open and honest thing, not the punching and bleeding thing and I’m sorry you took that away from what I wrote.
Mind you, that M’Shona prick you’ve chosen to name yourself after was rather fond of a bit of punching and bleeding, no?

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#708 Re: Trump
July 15, 2018, 12:01:25 am
Matt,

And here come the histrionics. While you can sit and complain about how Trump is the worst world leader since Hitler impotently tapping away at your keyboard, you accomplish nothing. I don't even think you care about real atrocities, because if you did, you would most probably not focus solely on the USA. Just like those children masquerading as adults protesting down in London, you're really just a hateful person and Trump (who has in reality done nothing notable since election day, but it's as if he may as well have genocided an entire country and called for "race-based detainment camps") gives you a socially-accepted outlet for your behavior.

Trump is no different to any world leader, yet emotional, reaction-prone people like yourself get angry enough about him to threaten and assume the character of complete strangers over the internet who don't quite boil with the same anger as you. Did I even once suggest that I support Donald Trump? You assume that I do, surely. I don't. Frankly, I don't care about the current leadership; I had more of a problem with Obama and Cameron funding Al Nusra, the FSA and other Sunni terrorist groups in Syria and Iraq but I didn't see anybody protesting those things funnily enough.

By the way, I don't care about your threats or what you might call me. You're nobody. I don't want to meet you in person and hear about what you think either; your opinions are as valuable to me as dog poo on the pavement. And from our short exchange on here, and your propensity for completely unwarranted hateful outbursts, I don't think you're the kind of person I would have any time for in the first place.  :sorry:

Enjoy your weekend xx

You are Andy Kirkpatrick and I claim the Daily Messenger prize.

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#709 Re: Trump
July 15, 2018, 04:24:16 am
Andy,

assuming you are still there;

how is the UK anti-trump protest stuff being reported and received in the USA?

on a local scale (Sheffield); even the church-going old ladies on our street think our Lord Mayor is doing the right thing by banning Trump from the city

I've watched a variety of TV news a lot in the US as its weird and scary that it is so partial. When you talk to ordinary people you realise their politics and TV news viewing are much more heavily interlinked than in the UK.

When I first saw one of the opinion shows on Fox (one of the early versions of Hannity) I initially thought it was a spoof as it was so obviously crazy, then became very worried when I realised that it wasn't and that this was one of the leading news shows in the ratings. To my mind US Fox news indicates what Murdoch would do if he was allowed to elsewhere. On Fox, Trump's lies and conspiracy stories are fully backed up (as were previous lies smears and conspiricy stories) with seemingly no legal or regulatory comeback (all in the name of 'freedom of speech'). Hence, I'd be amazed if British protests were mentioned in anything other than some kind of far left threat on Fox. It will be on the liberal news channels but conservatives won't ever see those.

We as a country are in turn largely ignorant is who to blame for this mess. Too often Brits think it is hicks and religious loons and blue collar unemployed who did this but it most certainly isn't (although they helped get him over the finish line). Trump wouldn't have even got started without  the white college educated middle class Republicans mostly putting up with him then once selected as Republican candidate nearly all of them putting their faith in him as a leader: taxes and party above truth and justice. People compare the Trump election and Brexit vote as similarly ignorant popularism without realising that more than half of white college educated men voted for Trump; the educational distribution on the Brexit vote in contrast was stark.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2018, 04:37:17 am by Offwidth »

Oldmanmatt

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#711 Re: Trump
July 15, 2018, 01:21:05 pm
Andy,

assuming you are still there;

how is the UK anti-trump protest stuff being reported and received in the USA?

Yes, still here (there). Offwidth gets it pretty spot on. News media here is both highly partisan and highly divided. Most people rely on a very small range of news sources - and for many that means exclusively Fox News, which often completely ignores, minimises, or twists stories unflattering to Trump. I have lost count of the number of people who have told me about watching a family member's politics go through a radical change after becoming devoted to Fox (almost every single person I know has at least one Trump supporter in the family, often its a whole branch of the family). I never watch Fox (I don't get any news from the TV) but I would imagine they massively downplayed the protests, if they covered them at all. The narrative would have been all about Trump's "triumph" in getting commitments to up defence spending from NATO members. Many people still believe the North Korea summit was likewise a triumph for Trump. Coverage in "serious" mainstream press (e.g. Washington Post and NYT) is more nuanced. Overall the message there would be that Trump is doing serious damage to the US's standing overseas. Social media (that I see) is all over the protests, taking particular delight in the extreme bluntness of many of the signs protestors were carrying. People I know like seeing Trump receiving a massive collective middle finger from Britain. They find him a deep embarrassment.

Mugabe251is just a silly little troll. Matt is right, it is the trivialization of Trump that I object to. He poses a real threat to core elements of American society. And it is not just histrionic liberals saying this; check out the excoriating op eds of arch conservative Jennifer Rubin in the Washington Post.

Finally Offwidth is right point out that though they are often conflated, Trump and Brexit are actually quite different phenomena.

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#712 Re: Trump
July 15, 2018, 02:13:31 pm
http://video.foxnews.com/v/5809303071001/?#sp=show-clips

Just thought to have a look at the kind of fodder you might get on Fox News. I guess a lot of shows are not above using this kind of method to show one side as all stupid, but I was impressed by the way the presenters managed to take some fairly neutral comments (not especially uninformed although nothing specific in their comments was expressed - maybe they didn't have chance or they were cut) and weave them into a certain narrative.

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#713 Re: Trump
July 15, 2018, 03:19:39 pm
Merely trivializing what is actually trivial. Obama deported thousands of illegal aliens, dropped tens of thousands of bombs in four countries, committed countless extrajudicial executions with predator drones on foreign soil, ramped up the surveillance state and orchestrating a superb framework for civil liberties violations arguably better than the Patriot Act of 2001. All the while orchestrating the deaths and indefinite detention of tens of thousands in international community and doing more to further American imperialistic goals than our friend Donald has ever done (and probably will ever do). Where were you when this was happening?

You don't really give a shit about people and the biggest clues are in your inconsistency. All Trump is, for you and all those like you, is just an excuse to signal how outraged you are to all your liberal baby-boomer friends. It's nothing more than petty tribalism and flaccid moral posing.

And please make your minds up: am I Paul Joseph Watson, Andy Kirkpatrick or maybe just a Russian troll?  :tease:

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#714 Re: Trump
July 15, 2018, 03:40:44 pm
Andy’s already answered that.

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#715 Re: Trump
July 15, 2018, 08:17:46 pm
Merely trivializing what is actually trivial. Obama deported thousands of illegal aliens, dropped tens of thousands of bombs in four countries, committed countless extrajudicial executions with predator drones on foreign soil, ramped up the surveillance state and orchestrating a superb framework for civil liberties violations arguably better than the Patriot Act of 2001. All the while orchestrating the deaths and indefinite detention of tens of thousands in international community and doing more to further American imperialistic goals than our friend Donald has ever done (and probably will ever do). Where were you when this was happening?

You don't really give a shit about people and the biggest clues are in your inconsistency. All Trump is, for you and all those like you, is just an excuse to signal how outraged you are to all your liberal baby-boomer friends. It's nothing more than petty tribalism and flaccid moral posing.

And please make your minds up: am I Paul Joseph Watson, Andy Kirkpatrick or maybe just a Russian troll?  :tease:
:wank:

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#716 Re: Trump
July 16, 2018, 01:16:44 pm
I know, enough already.

But running a climbing wall, during a heatwave, is bloody tedious and I was bored enough to doublecheck what I thought I knew.
I thought I’d fact check some of the claims made on the thread, (made without citation or evidence, so worth looking at ).
But it’s been an hour now and I got bored of that too.

You see, before I got too into it and started mailing and inboxing old acquaintances and friends for their opinions and insight; simple google searches made me realise I’d just look an idiot.

From the drawdown of troops in Afghanistan in the later years of Obama, to the Trump Administration increasing numbers by 4000 in 2017 (40% increase), to the “Doubling of Drone strikes” in all American theatres of war/interest over the last two years.
In ten minutes, I could link to certainly tens and probably hundreds of credible refutations to the above mentioned claims, without strolling beyond mainstream news organisations.
So, I thought I’d just post a screen cap of the top results for just one of those claims. Because it includes the search term, I hope it dispells any idea that the search was weighted:



And, to be clear, I’m no Obama fan boy. I don’t think there has been an honest government or politician/leader in the history of humanity.

Edit:
I should add, the first link there makes some interesting reading if you have the inclination.
Depressing, but interesting.
Humans suck.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 01:24:33 pm by Oldmanmatt »

Oldmanmatt

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#718 Re: Trump
July 16, 2018, 10:41:30 pm
There's a strong argument that Trump openly committed treason today, but don't worry, its all trivial.

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Oldmanmatt

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#720 Re: Trump
July 17, 2018, 10:39:00 am
A little cross pollination.
I hope this isn’t paywalled, usually the Time allows a few free views per user per month, but not sure if that’s still the case.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/times2/sacha-baron-cohen-isnt-joking-hes-at-war-with-indifference-2czrmw77x?CMP=Sprkr-_-Editorial-_-TheTimesandTheSundayTimes-_-Unspecified-_-FBPAGE

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#722 Re: Trump
July 17, 2018, 03:08:57 pm
Oh my! :


https://www.channel4.com/programmes/who-is-america

The first bit left me a bit cold, but I did enjoy the gun nuts. Hopefully that's not the highlight of the series.

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#723 Re: Trump
July 17, 2018, 04:40:48 pm
Oh my! :


https://www.channel4.com/programmes/who-is-america

The first bit left me a bit cold, but I did enjoy the gun nuts. Hopefully that's not the highlight of the series.

Yep, my usual reaction to Cohen.
I thought Sanders just looked confused and the two “Republicans” versus the New age twat, cringeworthy, since they actually seemed tolerant and borderline nice.
The Art dealer, was a complete and utter.... Art dealer (Arse dealer, in this case).
But, ffs, the gun nuts!
Though the first one, who politely told him to fuck off, was a surprise, in as much as Cohen chose to show the interaction.

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#724 Re: Trump
July 17, 2018, 10:26:50 pm
Wondering when the Don will tell us he had his fingers crossed when he says his next howler....

 

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