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UK General Election 2024 (Read 7163 times)

Oldmanmatt

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Are you not in fact guessing the reasons and not in possession of all the information?
There’s a difference between the publicly stated reasons and the full story, that often neither side wish the full story to become public.
Seems a reach to go from  any of this to authoritarian regime.

monkoffunk

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Lets look at the comparison and remember that at the end of the day it’s going to be a Tory or Labour government.

Labour attempts to have processes to deal with complaints and concerns that are open enough that they are discussed and reported. They have recently updated these procedures in response to the Equality and Human Rights Commission into their dealing with antisemitism. This was Starmer’s first priority taking over. I’m sure they aren’t perfect but the aim is to have them reasonably independent and distinct from the leadership making proclamations.

On the other hand you have the democracy at the top of the Tory party that has given us Johnson and Truss. Look at the real world implications of that. And in terms of processes for complaints; what are they? They just deal with the scandal after it breaks. Think ‘Pincher by name, pincher by nature’. And they end up with scandal after scandal from tractor pr0n to serious sexual misconduct.

The fact that the Labour Party is more democratic is being weaponised here, because Starmer simply can’t just decide who is in each seat, no further questions thanks.

Will Hunt

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They look pretty weak for not letting Abbot stand too. Like if you're letting her be in the Party, why can't she stand?

There's a big difference between letting someone be in the party and trusting them to stand for parliament and be in the parliamentary party.

Abbott lost the whip for writing stupid things in the Observer and not running it by the press office. When she had the whip restored she got straight on the phone to the BBC to slag off the leadership during a GE campaign.

Party discipline, especially during campaigning, is really important. As much as Abbott may have some admirable qualities and achievements she's proven herself a liability.

slab_happy

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The Faiza Shaheen deselection is really making me question whether I can vote Labour. Starmer may come across as offering a slightly softer, more egalitarian version of government than we've been getting. But I'm scared of empowering a team of people who seem to revel in exerting power by way of lying, manoeuvring and abuse of process.

Perhaps it could be argued that they will respect democracy, fairness and norms of decency when dealing with the wider country in a way that they manifestly don't internally with the Labour Party. But I'm not at all sure. Some truly horrible authoritarian regimes have actually be relatively liberal/benevolent in some ways. Saddam Hussein protected womens' rights and was a bastion against Islamic extremism.

To me, respect for democracy and treating people fairly is perhaps the most important political benchmark. I find this all very hard indeed.

I feel there's a massive leap from thinking that the Labour leadership is handling some of the candidate selection in a way which is at least inept (given how it's blown up in their faces) and possibly unfair to thinking that they're a threat to democracy in the UK or in any way even vaguely comparable to Saddam Hussein!

Also, they're not the party threatening to repeal human rights law, campaigning against the right of the courts to over-rule their illegal decisions, removing protest rights, introducing photo ID requirements with the explicit intent of suppressing votes from groups that tend not to vote for them, etc. etc.., so in terms of the long-term preservation of democratic institutions, I'd be rather more concerned about the other lot.

Duma

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Lets look at the comparison and remember that at the end of the day it’s going to be a Tory or Labour government.

No it isn't. It's going to be a labour government. The only doubt is the size of their majority. The defence of this bullshit by the "centrists" is pretty awful.

ToxicBilberry

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I agree with Stone, this decision has the whiff of Tony Blair and containment all over it.

Edit: by containment I mean policies directed at maintaining the current power elites. Not making way for increasingly radical left or right extremism.

monkoffunk

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Personally I think that solving any of the problems of this country is going to require a strong government with a strong mandate. A weak government next time round is bad news. The Tories right now are hoping for a single term Labour government, so we will be seeing Labour blamed a lot for problems of the Conservatives making in the next few years. I don’t want to see a small deficit for them to over come.

stone

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I don't see the candidate selection as being inept. I see it as being utterly ruthless factionalism. I think an element of it is performative. They want to reassure everyone that they have "permanently Changed Labour" -and deselecting a lefty economist is part of that.

Regarding Starmer not being at the centre of this is BS IMO. It is people from his leadership campaign who are doing this. They have now been parachuted in as parliamentary candidates themselves at the last minute so as to bypass any CLP involvement in their own selection. https://www.thenational.scot/news/24355642.luke-akehurst-labour-pick-extremist-israel-lobbyist-safe-seat/

spidermonkey09

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There's a big difference between letting someone be in the party and trusting them to stand for parliament and be in the parliamentary party.

Abbott lost the whip for writing stupid things in the Observer and not running it by the press office. When she had the whip restored she got straight on the phone to the BBC to slag off the leadership during a GE campaign.

Party discipline, especially during campaigning, is really important. As much as Abbott may have some admirable qualities and achievements she's proven herself a liability.

This is correct imo. Abbott has also spent the last few weeks publicly slagging off Wes Streeting and the leadership on her Twitter account (still there). She also retweeted the Green candidate standing against Streeting in Ilford, who was saying that Streeting knew nothing about the NHS. That is not on at any time, but especially in an election campaign. That by itself for me is enough to stop her standing, but it hasn't really been in the news. I think theres a lot going on behind the scenes. I suspect Abbott is ready to retire and is getting some pretty poor advice from hangers on about standing again. She is visibly struggling which I find sad to see. It would be best for everyone if she took the initiative and stood down.

 

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