[Kingy]

Pete Dawson climbed the project breaking right out of Cry Freedom today in an awesome display of power. 3rd redpoint of the day    He graded it 8c. A very sustained outing with the crux right at the top!

[haydn jones]

Wooooah. Thats fucking amazing!

[Kingy]

Yeah, great to watch. As soon as Pete used the rest with the left heel where your right hand is on the tufa before you leave cry freedom then he did it, he spent quite a while shaking out there on the send go and its a pretty crap rest! The moves on the crux up there are at least V7/8. Very strenuous, reaching into an undercut above your head and taking it down to your waist! 

[Adam Lincoln]

Thought this was Jordans project? Albeit bolted by Aaron Tonks...

[Kingy]

Yes I know Jordan had been trying it

[Footwork]

Very strenuous, reaching into an undercut above your head and taking it down to your waist! 

Thats so dank

[Kingy]

Very strenuous, reaching into an undercut above your head and taking it down to your waist! 

Thats so dank

Welcome to Malham! 

[Andy F]

Thought this was Jordans project? Albeit bolted by Aaron Tonks...

It was Aaron's project and IIRC he was pretty close before he had to pack in due to injury. I'm sure he said it was easier than Cry Freedom and around 8b/8b+. But he did always grade a little on the tough side

[Doylo]

If my memory serves me correct Jordan was thinking more 8c+. Mawson was telling me the top crux of Cry Freedom is more like font 6c now rather  than 7a+ as some holds have crumbled making it easier.

[Kingy]

Pete was pretty certain this was not hard enough for 8c+ although it was a cast iron 8c. He gave the crux moves at the top Font 7B+ as an overall sequence. I thought the top moves on Cry Freedom are still no easier than Font 7A. Its true that some araldite has come out the back of the top RH crimp you reach for since 2011 but only a few mm. The biggest change is that the hold you go again for at the end of this sequence is now a little bigger so you can slap more for it. I'm not sure what this hold was like before but Will Kelsall was telling me it was more like a gaston or something. When I did Cry Freedom in 2014, these moves were definitely challenging from the ground!

[Andy F]

Is the name from the old Rush song? 

[Adam Lincoln]

If my memory serves me correct Jordan was thinking more 8c+. Mawson was telling me the top crux of Cry Freedom is more like font 6c now rather  than 7a+ as some holds have crumbled making it easier.

Well in comparison Neils new route next door is 8b to an excellent rest into a similar boulder problem. Maybe a tad harder on the bloc. = 8c+
Cry freedom is 8b to roughly where Pete is saying the 7b+ sequence starts. Though with a poor rest. =8c

Grades eh?

[haydn jones]

To add my 2 cent the rest at the top of predator is not excellent. its marginal. and the boulder could well be 7C. I couldn't  even do the moves when i tried them. FEels harder than say the bat route bulge.

[Kingy]

Some interesting thoughts, I think the more repeats these climbs get the better in order to build a consensus of opinion. All a first ascentionist can do is give his/ her honest opinion on the grade. It is up to the repeaters to confirm this or suggest otherwise.

This process may take years, look how long it took for Unjustified to get downgraded, it was the talk of the catwalk for a decade and took some prominent repeaters to publicly voice their doubts on the 8c tag (Al Cassidy was the first IIRC) with some dissenters, before it went down.

Whether Cry Freedom should remain at 8c given how hard Something for Nothing is, is another debate. The new line is clearly harder but lets remember there is width within a grade. Cry Freedom is also very reachy. Something for Nothing suits shorties.

[Andy F]

Wasn't Unjustified downgraded as most ascentionists were doing the loop (discovered by Ian) which bypassed the crux sequence Tony used. This loop was easier, hence the drop in grade although the original sequence is/was worth 8c.

[Kingy]

Wasn't Unjustified downgraded as most ascentionists were doing the loop (discovered by Ian) which bypassed the crux sequence Tony used. This loop was easier, hence the drop in grade although the original sequence is/was worth 8c.

Yes that's right although nobody repeated Tony's method to confirm AFAIK - please correct me if I'm wrong. Mark Leach's original sequence on Cry Freedom is meant to be 8c but it was graded 8b+ due to the early repeaters discovering easier methods. I guess you have to grade for the easiest method and its unfortunate for the FA if one gets found, one of the perils of new routing!

[Paul B]

Wasn't Unjustified downgraded as most ascentionists were doing the loop (discovered by Ian) which bypassed the crux sequence Tony used. This loop was easier, hence the drop in grade although the original sequence is/was worth 8c.

WHAT? Are you suggesting that new (easier) beta does actually alter grades? Mind = blown.

[Will Hunt]

I guess you have to grade for the easiest method and its unfortunate for the FA if one gets found, one of the perils of new routing!

And there, in all its glorious one-sentence simplicity, is the argument against all this "you can use a knee-bar on this, but not on that" bollocks.

Wasn't Unjustified downgraded as most ascentionists were doing the loop (discovered by Ian) which bypassed the crux sequence Tony used. This loop was easier, hence the drop in grade although the original sequence is/was worth 8c.

WHAT? Are you suggesting that new (easier) beta does actually alter grades? Mind = blown.

FWIW, an easier sequence doesn't necessarily equate to being a full grade easier...

[slackline]

FWIW, an easier sequence doesn't necessarily equate to being a full grade easier...

Surely it depends on what the easier sequence is....and all that bollocks.

[Paul B]

FWIW it was a joke!

It's like going to the trout farm (Kilnsey of course) and offering the fish bread instead of their usual sweetcorn.