Ondra said 8b for the Oak when he onsighted it. I'll take his word
I've not been on the route, but my ouija board tells me that the absorption all Shark's blood, sweat, and tears has given the Oak eerie voodoo powers; for those the rock deems unworthy, the grade is infinite. Shark should abandon all that training and dieting nonsense and hire a warlock; his problems are nothing sacrificing a goat or two won't solve.
Quote from: petejh on November 03, 2016, 10:00:04 pmOndra said 8b for the Oak when he onsighted it. I'll take his wordBecause someone operating way below max is best poised to give objective grade related feedback? Since the photo of Mawson holding a protein shake in that groove it's always tickled me that a kneebar (or two) in a power endurance route makes it anything but easier (no matter how minute). I can remember speaking to someone straight after my first F8a (subculture) who rapidly pointed out it's slightly questioned grade. It hurt a bit...
I can remember speaking to someone straight after my first F8a (subculture) who rapidly pointed out it's slightly questioned grade. It hurt a bit...
Quote from: Paul B on November 04, 2016, 12:22:57 amI can remember speaking to someone straight after my first F8a (subculture) who rapidly pointed out it's slightly questioned grade. It hurt a bit...As for Mecca, I know a certain 9a climber who said to me he thinks it's 8b now with the knee bar.
It's funny that Subculture has that rep. For one reason or another, I've failed on Subculture about half a dozen times, last time falling off the 'easy' bit at the top three times in a row! It's soft, but it aint 7c+ IMO.As for Mecca, I know a certain 9a climber who said to me he thinks it's 8b now with the knee bar. But then Mawson reckons it's just about 8b+, so I'd take that as he is fairly stern when it comes to grading.
Shark's timing was stunning. They're just routes that often pop up in discussion (add Bat Route to that list too), it doesn't necessarily mean they're all ripe for a downgrade but personally, they wouldn't be routes I'd chase in order to solely climb a number as it just seems a likely tactic for future disappointment/uncertainty.Anyway most of this is way off knees and I'm re-typing this over and over trying not to piss on someone's chips as ultimately I don't really care. Is nothing happening in Dovedale?
Quote from: Paul B on November 04, 2016, 12:22:57 amI can remember speaking to someone straight after my first F8a (subculture) who rapidly pointed out it's slightly questioned grade. It hurt a bit...It's funny that Subculture has that rep. For one reason or another, I've failed on Subculture about half a dozen times, last time falling off the 'easy' bit at the top three times in a row! It's soft, but it aint 7c+ IMO.As for Mecca, I know a certain 9a climber who said to me he thinks it's 8b now with the knee bar. But then Mawson reckons it's just about 8b+, so I'd take that as he is fairly stern when it comes to grading.
Mecca is the most popular route of the grade in the country. As a result, there is a lot more beta around and therefore that makes it more doable.
And presumably Mecca Extension 8b+?
As for Mecca, I know a certain 9a climber who said to me he thinks it's 8b now with the knee bar.
I dunno, 8b+ seems fair but I'm no expert. But then the experts (Ondra being one) are dismissed as supposedly 'too good' to be able to know (regarding Oak being 8b).... unless you're one of the experts we like - in which case they know. Confusing and conflicting logic at work.
Quote from: T_B on November 04, 2016, 10:46:44 amIt's funny that Subculture has that rep. For one reason or another, I've failed on Subculture about half a dozen times, last time falling off the 'easy' bit at the top three times in a row! It's soft, but it aint 7c+ IMO.As for Mecca, I know a certain 9a climber who said to me he thinks it's 8b now with the knee bar. But then Mawson reckons it's just about 8b+, so I'd take that as he is fairly stern when it comes to grading.But going by Paul's logic a 9a climber isn't able to accurately determine the grade of a route well below his limit. So, can they or can't they? Quote from: Paul B on November 04, 2016, 09:45:47 amShark's timing was stunning. They're just routes that often pop up in discussion (add Bat Route to that list too), it doesn't necessarily mean they're all ripe for a downgrade but personally, they wouldn't be routes I'd chase in order to solely climb a number as it just seems a likely tactic for future disappointment/uncertainty.Anyway most of this is way off knees and I'm re-typing this over and over trying not to piss on someone's chips as ultimately I don't really care. Is nothing happening in Dovedale?It's (mildly) interesting this . I'm definitely trying Mecca so I can say I've climbed 8b+. As well as it being a fuck-off great route. That's what people do and there shouldn't be any questioning of that desire in climbing really. I also climb because I love climbing. Mecca's a good choice because it ticks both boxes - satisfy my desire to climb a grade harder, and being a great route.As for not choosing Mecca as a first 8b+ because it might be downgraded, I don't see your logic? It won't be - unless something drastically changes - because it's 8b+ in its current state. Unless a couple of good holds appear. And even then whoever climbed it before would have still climbed the level of 8b+.
Well, I'm an 8a - b redpointer, as are most people sessioning Mecca. And to me it feels every bit 8b+.
It might be daft but I'd trust a range of UK 8a+/8b redpointers to contextualise a route of that grade in line with the local routes
So why single out 8b+ climbers on Mecca? I'd hazard the suggestion: 'because it's close to *your* ability level'. And that smacks of... something..
Its all just opinions