[James Malloch]

I'm hoping for a bit of advice on old (ish) stoves.

I've got a wood burner on my narrowboat that's been professionally changed to run on diesel fuel. I lit it for the first time yesterday to test it and all was okay. I put it on properly tonight and after 20 minutes it was firing lots of smoke out into the boat from an unknown location. It looked to be more from the main body rather than the flue though.

Anyway, I shut it off, opened the windows etc, sacked off cooking dinner and I'm now sat in the pub (small wins).

Anyway, the boat owner next door suggested it may just be that the flue needs a clean out (though it's barely been used since first installed 13 years ago). He also said it might just need a good burn as it won't have been used for so long (6 years minimum) and recommended sticking it on for an hour. His wood burner smokes like this most winters apparently when running it for the first time in  a while.

Any UKB thoughts would be welcomed as I know shit all about this kind of thing. Our CO alarms didn't go off which makes me feel a bit better about it too...

[lagerstarfish]

yeah, I'd do whatever I could to clean the flue and then burn it hot for a while - with all belongings wrapped up, soft furnishings clingfilmed, windows open and fire fighting equipment ready

then when it has stopped smoking, turn it off and go to the pub while the smell gets less stinky

oh, and check air supply holes/pipes are clear

[James Malloch]

Thanks for the advice! I'll get on with that one evening when it's not raining...

When you say all belongings, is it that bad? And I guess I don't want to be inside whilst that's all going on, but keeping an eye through the window?

[tomtom]

If the smokes coming out of the stove - it suggests it can't get out of the flue. Clean it out (maybe the proverbial birds nest down it?) then give it a good burn. Watch out though for carbon monoxide poisoning. Maybe get a CO alarm?

[lagerstarfish]

can you see the flame?

if it's yellow then something needs cleaning/adjusting - take the burner apart and put it back together anyway

it should be blue (in my limited experience)

do you know the make/model of the conversion? might be worth trying googling boat owner forums (you have probably thought of this)

are you confident that the fuel is OK?

[SA Chris]

IMaybe get a CO alarm?

He does say CO2 alarm didn;t go off. I think they are law for any vessels?

Have you spoken to any neighbours who might have something similar? How hard would it be to convert back to wood? I love that you've done this btw, where are you moored at present?

[Duma]

I love that you've done this btw

know nothing about stoves, just wanted to echo Chris' sentiment.

[James Malloch]

If the smokes coming out of the stove - it suggests it can't get out of the flue. Clean it out (maybe the proverbial birds nest down it?) then give it a good burn. Watch out though for carbon monoxide poisoning. Maybe get a CO alarm?

It's definitely coming out of the flue, though not at the rate I assumed so it could be that it's blocked a bit. I'll try to get one of those funky brushes from one of my neighbours to give it a good clean. We've got CO alarms which didn't set off so hopefully it is burning properly.

can you see the flame?

if it's yellow then something needs cleaning/adjusting - take the burner apart and put it back together anyway

it should be blue (in my limited experience)

do you know the make/model of the conversion? might be worth trying googling boat owner forums (you have probably thought of this)

are you confident that the fuel is OK?

It's burning very yellow so that might be the problem. I'll try to give it a clean out but it does look pretty much unused. The change inside since I first lit it would suggest it may well be unused. The fire blocks inside were pristine but now after 30 minutes of use they're black with soot (or whatever diesel creates). It could be that the diesel in the pipe was 13 years old if it hasn't actually been used.

The cooker etc still had cellophane on from it's installation so I wouldn't be surprised if it hadn't been used in that time...

I'll have a proper google later but I've got the manuals here.

IMaybe get a CO alarm?

He does say CO2 alarm didn;t go off. I think they are law for any vessels?

Have you spoken to any neighbours who might have something similar? How hard would it be to convert back to wood? I love that you've done this btw, where are you moored at present?

The neighbours all have wood burners but say it's not uncommon to get lots of smoke the first time it's been used. They suggest giving the flue a clean and then burning it hot for an hour to get the flue hot and see how it goes. That's my task for the next free (and dry) evening I have.

The boat's currently in Leeds. We've got a permanent mooring here which we plan to use in winter, and then cruise around the Yorkshire dales come spring/summer (perfect for Malham/Kilnsey after work).  We both work in Leeds so it's pretty handy.

So far it's been tough as there are lots of jobs that need doing but it's great to have a place of our own, and one that doesn't require a 25 year mortgage!

[SA Chris]

Love to see some photos sometime. When I lived in Kirkstall I used to cycle down the canal path quite a lot.

[James Malloch]

This is the advert for her: http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=467596

It's now full of our crap (tables, sofas etc) and much more homely. We need some decent storage putting in (raise the bet to put some drawers in, book shelves and the like) along with installing a new inverter, solar panels and squeezing a washing machine in somewhere.

We've thought about painting some of the walls, putting a proper wooden floor down, and putting a wooden work surface on the kitchen. But they're all quite an expense, except the painting which is kind of irreversible and would be over really nice wood.

Lots of choices to make once my girlfriend is back living on it with me next week.

I lived in Armley for a while myself and cycled the canal a lot too. I never thought I'd actually end up owning one of the boats though until some of our friends convinced us. Financially it's a no brainer too compared to renting and I doubt we would have managed to get one of the £200k+ flats surrounding the boat...

[Obi-Wan is lost...]

Sounds like you need to reseal the flue, if I'm understanding correctly it's been in 13 years and hardly been used. I suggest that the flue has been sealed with non-flexible fire cement but the movement and flex of the boat over the years has cracked it and it is no longer sealing the various bits of the flue to the stove. If a lot is leaking out the draw upwards will be effected and the fumes won't be pulled up out of the boat, it's important the flue is airtight. From the photos it appears to be an uninsulated stove pipe to the ceiling, the issue with this is a lot of heat is lost through the metal, slowing down the smoke, so although it acts as a radiator and give out additional heat, it won't draw or burn as well as an insulated chimney.

I think the flame is supposed to be yellow for aesthetic reasons but this does mean that it is very important that the stove draws well. I'd strip off the flue and reseal with flexible heat resistance sealant.

Around the stove you'll have to use fire cement (rated over 1000C ) but this sets very hard but brittle, around the flue connections, which is likely to flex and move, a permanently flexible sealant would be better, only rated to 300C but this should be ok higher up the flue.

http://r.ebay.com/AajduN
http://r.ebay.com/TA8JCi

[SA Chris]

This is the advert for her: http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=467596

Synchronicity

Do you have the album on permanent repeat?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronicity_(The_Police_album)

[tomtom]

When I was a postgrad at Leeds one of the postdocs there lived in a narrowboat moored at Horsforth Marina. Then used to ride into work along the towpath. Went there a couple of times - seemed like a decent place (with showers!)... that was c.20 years ago though!!

[James Malloch]

Quick Update - we swept the chimney which got rid of 13 years of cobwebs and re-cleaned the air intake holes.

We've been sitting around in t-shirts the last two nights with the fire going great and the back boiler heating our radiators in bedroom/bathroom.

Next jobs are to install a new inverter and battery charger which means zero engine running whilst on our mooring (YYFY when that happens) and then to squeeze a washing machine in somewhere....

Many thanks for all the advice, really useful!

[SA Chris]

Got solar?

[James Malloch]

Got solar?

That's another job, probably in late winter/early spring. Our plan is to cruise out to the Skipton/Gargrave area once the evenings start getting longer in the spring. We'll definitely need it then to keep everything running without our hook-up.

Need to keep an eye out for some deals over the winter - it could end up being another hefty expense!

[Fultonius]

Solar's fairly cheap these days. We're looking at getting one for the van.

I looked into an inverter but I think we're going to leave it - so much can be charged from USB these days (phones, cameras) and you can get DC adaptors for laptops (seems kind of made to convert ~20v DC to 240v AC, back to ~15v DC. I guess the missus might want a hairdryer though?

Lovely looking boat!

[James Malloch]

Solar's fairly cheap these days. We're looking at getting one for the van.

I looked into an inverter but I think we're going to leave it - so much can be charged from USB these days (phones, cameras) and you can get DC adaptors for laptops (seems kind of made to convert ~20v DC to 240v AC, back to ~15v DC. I guess the missus might want a hairdryer though?

Lovely looking boat!

I think the panels are okay but it's the solar controller that's fairly expensive for a decent one. We will probably budget £600-700 to get 2-3 decent sized panels put on, hopefully omitting the need for most mains power.

Yeah I wouldn't bother with an inverter in a van unless you need something other than the things you've mentioned. We're going to need to power a washing machine and our big speakers so it's definitely needed.

And thanks, we are really pleased with it, it's still a bit weird having it!

[tomtom]

For 2-3 panels the controller (I think it jest prevents overcharging) is only 20-30£

[James Malloch]

For 2-3 panels the controller (I think it jest prevents overcharging) is only 20-30£

Do you know if that's for something decent that can handle 300-400W?

I've not actually looked but every other boat owner with them tells me it can be more than the panels in cost.

[butters]

For 2-3 panels the controller (I think it jest prevents overcharging) is only 20-30£

Do you know if that's for something decent that can handle 300-400W?

I've not actually looked but every other boat owner with them tells me it can be more than the panels in cost.

Might be worth a look on the VW4\VW5 forums for info on that front. It's been a good couple of years since I have been on there but pretty sure that that subject has come up in some shape or form but there should be something that you can use with a bit of subjective filtering.  They are almost certainly going to have the latest on what works and what doesn't work for a "moving" situation given that it is the back end of the summer now for sure.

[Fultonius]

I was just looking at solar the other day (briefly!) and it seemed that typically panels above 150w are aimed at the housing,  rather than mobile market.  As such they usually had much more robust charge controllers. 

You may get away with going for more than one small panel... But I have no idea if this would work!

You could go super-modern and get a tesla power wall!

Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk

[SA Chris]

I was just looking at solar the other day (briefly!)

Sounds like typical Glasgow. Few seconds of sunshine.

[James Malloch]

Yeah I think housing is the kind we will need. Everything is run on pumps (water, toilet, shower etc) and we have a 1KW immersion heater on permanently so we'll need to generate a decent amount of power to avoid running the engine much. Any ideas on the quality of the panels? I guees you can get much cheaper imports from China but I've no idea on quality...

VW forums is a good shout too - thanks!

As an aside, our radiators are powered from the fire and hot water tank. A pump circulates water between the tank, through the radiators and though the stove. However one of the radiators only gets hot to half way (it's one of those towel rail things). I bled it a few weeks ago when cold and it was fine (as were the others) but now bleeding it does nothing and there's definitely air in there.

Could it be that there's not enough water in the system?

[SA Chris]

Sounds like it. is it a closed system? Should be a top up somewhere.