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becoming caffeine free (Read 19200 times)

36chambers

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becoming caffeine free
September 06, 2016, 02:51:39 pm
In a quest to make my life as miserable as possible, I'm contemplating making a switch to decaffeinated coffee.

Becoming a vegetarian was easy. Giving up sweets, dairy and eggs was easy, giving up alcohol for prolonged periods of time is easy. But not having at least three cups of strong coffee a day is hard. As possibly my only vice I have toyed with the idea of only drinking decaf and in the past I think my best effort was 2 days of sustained misery.

But is there actually any benefit?

I've read numerous articles about the pros and cons of caffeine with regards to work and study, and also with regards to sport performance and training, and I'm just curious if the UKB collective have anything to say about it?  :coffee:



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#1 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 06, 2016, 03:10:06 pm
I drink virtually no coffee or tea, and look at me.

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#2 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 06, 2016, 03:13:28 pm
I have no idea about performance benefits etc, I drink coffee because I really really like it. Only one a day mind, but brutally strong.

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#3 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 06, 2016, 03:29:53 pm
But is there actually any benefit?

It's nice to not need it to wake up. I'm living proof that a totally "straight edge" lifestyle has little to no correlation with climbing performance though.

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#4 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 06, 2016, 04:52:46 pm
Becoming caffeine free and drinking decaffeinated coffee are two different things. Decaffeinated coffee still contains caffeine and will have gone through a chemical process to remove most of the caffeine. Decaffeinated coffees might contain 10-20% of the amount of caffeine found standard instant coffee.
Caffeine free coffee is something I read about recently. Can't remember if it is in development or available yet.
Caffeine free hot drinks are your fruit or herbal teas and my favourite redbush/rooibos with milk.
I sleep better and usually wake up fine without the need for caffeine these days. I'm probably more alert generally now I've stopped drinking coffee. Still get a little caffeine from chocolate though. Can't give that up.

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#5 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 06, 2016, 05:09:44 pm
I drink alot of Rooibos tea instead of regular - worth finding a decent brand, tictoc (the one everywhere is minging IMHO) sainsburys red label is cheap and really decent (its in a red box anyway not sure of the exact label).

What Plattsy said RE decaff stuff. A decaf starbucks americano has as much caffeine in it as a cup of regular instant coffee..

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#6 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 06, 2016, 05:56:23 pm
In a quest to make my life as miserable as possible, I'm contemplating making a switch to decaffeinated coffee.

Becoming a vegetarian was easy. Giving up sweets, dairy and eggs was easy, giving up alcohol for prolonged periods of time is easy. But not having at least three cups of strong coffee a day is hard. As possibly my only vice I have toyed with the idea of only drinking decaf and in the past I think my best effort was 2 days of sustained misery.

But is there actually any benefit?

I've read numerous articles about the pros and cons of caffeine with regards to work and study, and also with regards to sport performance and training, and I'm just curious if the UKB collective have anything to say about it?  :coffee:

Why?

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#7 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 06, 2016, 06:07:43 pm
Just the thread title is offensive enough.
That you actually contemplate a life without coffee?

Well, brings a tear to my eye, it does.



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#8 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 06, 2016, 06:16:41 pm
In a quest to make my life as miserable as possible, I'm contemplating making a switch to decaffeinated coffee.

Becoming a vegetarian was easy. Giving up sweets, dairy and eggs was easy, giving up alcohol for prolonged periods of time is easy. But not having at least three cups of strong coffee a day is hard. As possibly my only vice I have toyed with the idea of only drinking decaf and in the past I think my best effort was 2 days of sustained misery.

But is there actually any benefit?

I've read numerous articles about the pros and cons of caffeine with regards to work and study, and also with regards to sport performance and training, and I'm just curious if the UKB collective have anything to say about it?  :coffee:

Why?

Sitting a coffee shop in Boulder, CO, contemplating why anyone without a medical reason would consider it? In sensible amounts it seems to have more health benefits than negatives and ... just ... why??!!  You seem to be addicted to giving shit up - why?

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#9 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 06, 2016, 06:56:21 pm
Why indeed? If you are smashing in ten cups a day and having serious sleep and heart problems then give it up. If you like it, drink it!

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#10 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 06, 2016, 07:49:21 pm
In a quest to make my life as miserable as possible, I'm contemplating making a switch to decaffeinated coffee.

Becoming a vegetarian was easy. Giving up sweets, dairy and eggs was easy, giving up alcohol for prolonged periods of time is easy. But not having at least three cups of strong coffee a day is hard. As possibly my only vice I have toyed with the idea of only drinking decaf and in the past I think my best effort was 2 days of sustained misery.

But is there actually any benefit?

I've read numerous articles about the pros and cons of caffeine with regards to work and study, and also with regards to sport performance and training, and I'm just curious if the UKB collective have anything to say about it?  :coffee:

Why?

Sitting a coffee shop in Boulder, CO, contemplating why anyone without a medical reason would consider it? In sensible amounts it seems to have more health benefits than negatives and ... just ... why??!!  You seem to be addicted to giving shit up - why?

Is that coffee shop in the Amsterdam stylee? ;)

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#11 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 06, 2016, 07:51:39 pm
Ha, nah. A bit like when I'm in Amsterdam, the availability of the green does not entice me.

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#12 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 06, 2016, 08:25:20 pm
:)

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#13 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 06, 2016, 08:46:01 pm
Don't know why I remember this but a few years back there was a video of Michael Camanatti (obviously spelt wrong as Google isn't helping) making espresso at Ned's house (can't spell his surname either) on his first visit here.  When asked how he liked his coffee Ned replied that he didn't drink it.  One drinks it plentiful and strong, one abstains altogether, they both climb 8B+/8C.

If you like coffee then drink it, giving it up isn't going to help your climbing (I guess this is why you're considering it?). The mental benefits of something you enjoy may actually outweigh the supposed physical benefits of giving it up.  But maybe cut down to two cups a day  ;)

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#14 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 06, 2016, 09:15:48 pm
i love drinking coffee , so i'm with wolfgang on this one:
„Man geht nicht nach dem Klettern zum Kaffeetrinken, Kaffeetrinken ist integraler Bestandteil des Kletterns.“
– Wolfgang Gütlich


i don't think caffeine makes you climb better or harder, but it does help me get to the level of activation where i want to be faster and easier (and possibly more often).
down sides:
overdoing it makes you too high strung for route climbing (not a big problem for bouldering) and makes my hands sweat more

i do stop drinking coffee now and then, for a week or two, usually when i start getting headaches in the morning if i haven't had coffee for more than 18 hours. i don't like feeling like a junkie.
then i drink tea for a few weeks, to keep away the bends, it's like morphine (yes, making coffee the real stuff).
sometimes the break coincides with a break from climbing, sometimes not, but either way: life is less good without coffee.
not just the 3 times 15 minutes of drinking and smelling it. the rest of the day also. caffeine makes my days nicer.

(p.s. my dog is called Coffee)

tommytwotone

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#15 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 06, 2016, 09:40:29 pm

...giving up alcohol for prolonged periods of time is easy. 


Wait till you have kids.



But not having at least three cups of strong coffee a day is hard.



See above.

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#16 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 06, 2016, 10:42:08 pm
Don't know why I remember this but a few years back there was a video of Michael Camanatti (obviously spelt wrong as Google isn't helping) making espresso at Ned's house (can't spell his surname either) on his first visit here.  When asked how he liked his coffee Ned replied that he didn't drink it.  One drinks it plentiful and strong, one abstains altogether, they both climb 8B+/8C.

If you like coffee then drink it, giving it up isn't going to help your climbing (I guess this is why you're considering it?). The mental benefits of something you enjoy may actually outweigh the supposed physical benefits of giving it up.  But maybe cut down to two cups a day  ;)

Nicely put. At this rate he'll be asking if anyone has tried being chaste whilst tapering off before entering a peak phase  ;)

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#17 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 06, 2016, 10:45:46 pm
Sitting a coffee shop in Boulder, CO, contemplating why anyone without a medical reason would consider it? In sensible amounts it seems to have more health benefits than negatives and ... just ... why??!!  You seem to be addicted to giving shit up - why?

Black Sheep?

36chambers

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#18 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 06, 2016, 10:46:58 pm
 ;D cheers for the replies people. All very interesting.

Becoming caffeine free and drinking decaffeinated coffee are two different things.

Apologises that was just a lazy/quick thread title.
 

I suppose my main reason is because I like the idea of not being "addicted" to something (other than climbing I suppose). But that isn't quite enough of a reason, hence why I started this thread, to see if there was anything else to gain.

Furthermore, I'm entering the final year of my PhD and thought maybe I should stop now least I end up drinking 8 cups a day.

As far as coffee at the crag goes, I have stopped taking it this year, as I'd sometimes get too jittery from drinking it between project attempts. Ginger tea is an excellent alternative (it turns out that at the crag any hot drink will do).

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#19 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 07, 2016, 12:48:48 am
This won't help, I suppose, will it?

There's something quite disgusting about this video, but she seems pleased enough  :P


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#20 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 07, 2016, 08:55:05 am
;D cheers for the replies people. All very interesting.

Furthermore, I'm entering the final year of my PhD and thought maybe I should stop now least I end up drinking 8 cups a day.

MADNESS!!! Final year of the PhD is characterised by wandering around your department/workplace with a 1000 yard stare clutching a cup of coffee. Life in that final year is sustained by cheap instant coffee and digestive biscuits :)

Drink more. And start on the ritalin.

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#21 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 07, 2016, 09:10:22 am
I find that a bit of structure helps to control the coffee intake. On a week day I have 3 cups of decent coffee a day. One on waking, one on getting to work and one at 3pm. On a weekend I might go crazy and have one more.

It seems to me that the binary, drink loads or give it up entirely approach is a sad reflection of our polarised times.

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#22 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 07, 2016, 09:50:45 am
I bet your socks are matching... ;)

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#23 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 07, 2016, 10:28:27 am
I suppose my main reason is because I like the idea of not being "addicted" to something (other than climbing I suppose).

Do you find your coffee cravings match the current WHO International Classification of Disease (ICD-10)  Dependence Syndrome definition.


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#24 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 07, 2016, 12:22:40 pm
Another factor is caffeine is a diuretic. For every cup of coffee consumed the equivalent in water should be consumed. Plus on top of that the usual amount of water. That's a lot of water. Fairly sure muscle performance, injury and hydration are linked.

Would anyone drink coffee if it didn't contain caffeine?

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#25 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 07, 2016, 01:06:29 pm
I suppose my main reason is because I like the idea of not being "addicted" to something (other than climbing I suppose).

Do you find your coffee cravings match the current WHO International Classification of Disease (ICD-10)  Dependence Syndrome definition.

ICD-10 Clinical description
A cluster of physiological, behavioural, and cognitive phenomena in which the use of a substance rock or a class of substances rocks takes on a much higher priority for a given individual than other behaviours that once had greater value - education, work, family..

When there isn't a sea cliff nearby, a couple of strong lattes in the morning can certainly help ease the pain  ;D

Some folk may find the following article interesting:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2010/may/12/alcohol-addiction-dorothy-rowe

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#26 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 07, 2016, 01:31:14 pm
Another factor is caffeine is a diuretic. For every cup of coffee consumed the equivalent in water should be consumed. Plus on top of that the usual amount of water. That's a lot of water. Fairly sure muscle performance, injury and hydration are linked.

Would anyone drink coffee if it didn't contain caffeine?
Coffee/caffeine has a mild diuretic effect, especially if you regularly consume it (close to negligible), I think the fact you are drinking twice the volume of liquid when you drink a cup of coffee probably explains your excessive micturition.  if you drink a cup of coffee you will still have a net gain in fluid

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#27 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 07, 2016, 02:12:44 pm
Another factor is caffeine is a diuretic. For every cup of coffee consumed the equivalent in water should be consumed. Plus on top of that the usual amount of water. That's a lot of water. Fairly sure muscle performance, injury and hydration are linked.

Would anyone drink coffee if it didn't contain caffeine?

I thought this myth had been debunked long ago:

"Back in 1928, caffeine was shown to have no significant impact on urinary output. Subsequent studies have shown that caffeine-containing beverages did not impact urinary output any differently than other beverages. Based on this, the Institute of Medicine recommends that "unless additional evidence becomes available indicating cumulative total water deficits in individuals with habitual intakes of significant amounts of caffeine, caffeinated beverages appear to contribute to the daily total water intake similar to that contributed by non-caffeinated beverages."

"While we’ve been told for years that coffee (and caffeine in general) is a potent diuretic, research studies show that coffee only seems to have diuretic effects when consumed in larger amounts — adding up to more than 500 to 600 mg of caffeine a day. The most recent studies on this subject show that there is, in fact, no significant difference between urine output among people who drink caffeinated drinks compared to those who drink water or other comparable non-caffeinated drinks. Therefore, the typical coffee drinker should not experience dehydration from a one- or two-cup habit."

"Coffee and tea also count in your hydration tally. Many used to believe that they were dehydrating, but that myth has been debunked. The diuretic effect does not offset hydration."


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#29 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 07, 2016, 02:50:03 pm
Another factor is caffeine is a diuretic. For every cup of coffee consumed the equivalent in water should be consumed. Plus on top of that the usual amount of water. That's a lot of water. Fairly sure muscle performance, injury and hydration are linked.


I thought this myth had been debunked long ago:


I can confirm it works effectively on the other exit though.

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#30 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 07, 2016, 03:01:11 pm
Glad someone else had access to the SCIENCE - I was just about to post that I was sure I'd seen on QI that the whole "coffee dehydrates you" thing wasn't actually true.


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#31 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 07, 2016, 03:01:38 pm
Another factor is caffeine is a diuretic. For every cup of coffee consumed the equivalent in water should be consumed. Plus on top of that the usual amount of water. That's a lot of water. Fairly sure muscle performance, injury and hydration are linked.


I thought this myth had been debunked long ago:



I can confirm it works effectively on the other exit though.


If I recall this is not to do with the caffeine and only affects about 30% of people (can't find sources at the minute and don't feel like googling coffee shits whilst at work).
Also I believe that decaf coffee also has the same laxative effects.

Maybe it makes you lighter though for that crucial send?  :strongbench:

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#32 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 07, 2016, 03:12:46 pm
Another factor is caffeine is a diuretic. For every cup of coffee consumed the equivalent in water should be consumed. Plus on top of that the usual amount of water. That's a lot of water. Fairly sure muscle performance, injury and hydration are linked.


I thought this myth had been debunked long ago:



I can confirm it works effectively on the other exit though.


If I recall this is not to do with the caffeine and only affects about 30% of people (can't find sources at the minute and don't feel like googling coffee shits whilst at work).
Also I believe that decaf coffee also has the same laxative effects.

Maybe it makes you lighter though for that crucial send?  :strongbench:

I find a pre-departure quadruple espresso and associated evacuation; makes for a much more comfortable day on the crag/bike/kayak etc.
The midday flask of 300ml skimmed milk (I hate semi, too greasy) and three shots is the only thing that keeps me alive.

Never get any jitters and don't miss it on days without (not withstanding the "keeps me alive" comment).



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#33 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 07, 2016, 03:17:15 pm
Yup, having a strong one and doing the necessary at home saves having to find a convenient bush at the crag.

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#34 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 07, 2016, 04:02:45 pm
Maybe just consider changing the time of your first coffee of the day.  I have read that first thing in the morning you should allow the peak levels of cortisol in your body to wake you up without the need for caffeine and this peak also diminishes the effect of the caffeine.  I tend to drink tea first thing and then a coffee around 10ish.  When I drink strong coffee straight after waking it seems to make me feel a bit nauseous but maybe that is because I am not used to it.

Found an article here:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonykosner/2014/01/05/why-the-best-time-to-drink-coffee-is-not-first-thing-in-the-morning/#2ec077325aa7

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#35 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 07, 2016, 04:56:05 pm
I stand corrected.

As QI has been mentioned. On the point of alertness I'm fairly sure it was mentioned on QI that caffeine merely brings a user up to a normal level of alertness. From out of a caffeine low. How did humans function before caffeine. ....

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#36 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 07, 2016, 05:03:00 pm
How did humans function before caffeine. ....


Psilocybe semilanceata by slack---line, on Flickr

:clown:

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#37 Re: becoming caffeine free
September 07, 2016, 05:29:14 pm
Maybe just consider changing the time of your first coffee of the day.  I have read that first thing in the morning you should allow the peak levels of cortisol in your body to wake you up without the need for caffeine and this peak also diminishes the effect of the caffeine.  I tend to drink tea first thing and then a coffee around 10ish.  When I drink strong coffee straight after waking it seems to make me feel a bit nauseous but maybe that is because I am not used to it.

Found an article here:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonykosner/2014/01/05/why-the-best-time-to-drink-coffee-is-not-first-thing-in-the-morning/#2ec077325aa7

I thought "10ish" was first thing?



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#38 Re: becoming caffeine free
February 15, 2017, 03:49:57 pm
I have some experience of giving things up; caffeine is the only thing I haven't tried to give up totally.

I even gave up the shrooms in my teens, but I couldn't stay away for long.

i'm sure I read/heard somewhere that tea actually contains almost equivalent amounts of caffeine as coffee, but that coffee contains other related compounds with similar effects that teas do not? No references seem to back this up, but the tables here are interesting and indicate some crossover between teas/coffees of differing varieties and strengths: http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/caffeine/art-20049372

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#39 Re: becoming caffeine free
February 15, 2017, 04:08:52 pm
A "typical" (by volume, so compare similar) cup of tea contains ~20mg caffeine to a "typical" coffee @~40mg (which is about 4 similar sized Cokes).

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TCXnm8HSs-w8zqqf7dVZokoyLdeqMxmf4fTXsv8TOtQ/htmlview


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#40 Re: becoming caffeine free
February 15, 2017, 04:15:49 pm
Aye, I think the confusion re caffeine dosage is that tea leaves by weight contain more caffeine than coffee but, in terms of what ends up in the cup, coffee yields a more caffeinated drink. 

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#41 Re: becoming caffeine free
February 15, 2017, 04:30:56 pm
Aye, I think the confusion re caffeine dosage is that tea leaves by weight contain more caffeine than coffee but, in terms of what ends up in the cup, coffee yields a more caffeinated drink.

agreed, tea contains more caffeine but it's extraction is less efficient and so you end up with less in your mug

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#42 Re: becoming caffeine free
February 15, 2017, 04:31:43 pm
Also, instant coffee has about the same amount of caffeine as tea, and apparently some people drink instant coffee, so that's where that comparison comes in.

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#43 Re: becoming caffeine free
February 15, 2017, 04:37:51 pm
Which begs the question: was the OP referring to instant or "real" coffee, and if they weren't planning to also cut out caffeinated teas; why not?! In for a penny, in for a pound.

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#44 Re: becoming caffeine free
February 15, 2017, 05:10:34 pm
Also, instant coffee has about the same amount of caffeine as tea, and apparently some people drink instant coffee, so that's where that comparison comes in.

You're not supposed to swear on this forum...


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#45 Re: becoming caffeine free
February 15, 2017, 05:43:41 pm
I think the correct term is coffee flavoured beverine

http://imgur.com/r/thesimpsons/CK6TO4x


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#46 Re: becoming caffeine free
February 15, 2017, 06:17:56 pm
Have we had this yet? Independent newspaper front page, circa '95 iirc.

I think the webs speak for themselves..


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#47 Re: becoming caffeine free
February 15, 2017, 09:18:19 pm
I think the webs speak for themselves..

Personally, I view myself as sufficently different from spiders not to care greatly about what affects them.  Similarly, I didn't give up chocolate when I found out that it causes seizures and death in dogs, or avodados because they cause donkey's to get massive head oedemas. 

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#48 Re: becoming caffeine free
February 15, 2017, 09:30:18 pm
I think the webs speak for themselves..

Personally, I view myself as sufficently different from spiders not to care greatly about what affects them.  Similarly, I didn't give up chocolate when I found out that it causes seizures and death in dogs, or avodados because they cause donkey's to get massive head oedemas.

well said!

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#49 Re: becoming caffeine free
February 15, 2017, 11:18:40 pm
I think the caffeine influenced spiders web is the best one

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#50 Re: becoming caffeine free
February 16, 2017, 08:31:42 am
Probably only took 5 minutes. and he made a dozen more before the undrugged one had done one.

Done is better than perfect

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#51 Re: becoming caffeine free
February 16, 2017, 09:12:16 am
Probably says a lot that everyone is jumping to the caffeinated spider's defence here...

Also, there's not much control in that evidence. Perhaps they gave caffeine to a 7-legged spider? The drug-free one may be a one-in-one million spider who's perfect at everything and all the other spiders hate it out of jealousy.

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#52 Re: becoming caffeine free
February 16, 2017, 09:31:13 am
The Caffeinated spider wasn't even aiming for poxy little flies anymore. That dude was after Bats or the odd Golden Eagle...


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#53 Re: becoming caffeine free
February 16, 2017, 11:33:31 am
After careful analysis and comparison, I have come to the conclusion that the spiders in my garden are off their little tits on benzedrine.

I need to trawl through the shed now, as they must be hiding their supply somewhere and a few kilos of speed will put a nice dent in my mortgage...

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#54 Re: becoming caffeine free
February 16, 2017, 11:35:50 am
Careful, those little spiders have got big, nasty cousins!

 

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