[dave]

Was at the crag-which-shall-not-be-named last night to find that someone had had a fire there, by Sean's/LiftOff. Would love to believe this is not climbers, but given nobody else knows about the crag or ever goes there, and the fire was not accompanied by the usual litter or empty cans associated with local chav fires it's hard to rationalise that it could have been anyone else.

Needless to it's a pretty stupid idea to be having a fire here. Both from an access point of view, and the fact some other poor cunt has to clear up your shit afterwards. Keep an eye open for any further stuff like this folks.

[Eddies]

 :

[tomtom]

Fucking bell ends.

[Bonjoy]

Would love to believe this is not climbers, but given nobody else knows about the crag or ever goes there, and the fire was not accompanied by the usual litter or empty cans associated with local chav fires it's hard to rationalise that it could have been anyone else.

I don't see this adds up to it being most likely a climber. The place is on the map and easily found by anyone with legs and a penchant for secluded bonfires.
I've found loads of random places whilst not wearing a climbing hat. Pretty sure I've spoke to non-climbers who've explored this valley.
It's not the sort of place that people tend to find out about and go to during their clueless early years.
I don't see any benefit in climbers taking responsibility for this, when there is no clear evidence it was a climber and when owning the action could have repercussions on the delicate access.

[Plattsy]

Been there before and had folk walk up from the stream. God knows where they came from. I suspect they came down the valley rather than up.

On the odd occasion I've explored around there's been evidence of digging so more folk than just climbers knock about there doing whatever they do.

[andy_e]

Isn't there a cave entrance nearby?

[dave]

Obviously it's far more likely to have been one of the thousands of non-climbing visitors the crags sees every day (though paradoxically I've never seen any of them there) but I think if climbers lead the way here in discouraging bad practice at the crag/in the countryside then that can only reflect well on us.

[Johnny Brown]

Been there before and had folk walk up from the stream. God knows where they came from. I suspect they came down the valley rather than up.

There is a path up from the pond at bi.con. Up the valley is definitely easier than down to x.

[Plattsy]

Been there before and had folk walk up from the stream. God knows where they came from. I suspect they came down the valley rather than up.

There is a path up from the pond at bi.con. Up the valley is definitely easier than down to x.

Ah I didn't find a path up just a vague path down. I guess logically the path could run the length of the valley.

[shark]

I was in two minds whether it was climbers or not when I saw it yesterday. Even though I was brought up on an Indian Reservation there is no way of telling.     

[Johnny Brown]

Ah I didn't find a path up just a vague path down. I guess logically the path could run the length of the valley.

The higher you go the vaguer it gets. The final bit from the cove to Ravensdale there isn't much.

[a dense loner]

You thinking of pink Indians shark?

[T_B]

FWIW I was there last night and didn't think climbers, as it was right below Sean's. If you were a climber wanting to climb by the light of a fire, you'd set it back from the crag further? Unless perhaps you were bivi-ing 

[Bonjoy]

Can't see a climber putting a bonfire under an actual problem, bivi or no bivi.

I guess this may or may not be a cloaked reference to the pic I put on FB of me and Spike biviing at a limestone cave (with a fire) a while back. To be clear, this was a small cooking fire at a very discrete location (a long way off the path and miles from nearest dwelling), the fire was lit with dry wood (dead on trees not off ground) so no smoke to speak of, was lit late in the day when any sensible person would be have gone home, was well away from bouldering outside the cave and was cleared up afterward. It was in a different dale. Maybe it was not a great idea to put on FB (though it was on a group thing, not public), but I don't see any other issue with it.

PS - and we took out two bags full of other people's crap (also probably not climbers')

[Dexter]

FWIW I was there last night and didn't think climbers, as it was right below Sean's. If you were a climber wanting to climb by the light of a fire, you'd set it back from the crag further? Unless perhaps you were bivi-ing 

Good motivation not to fall off?

[dave]

We're saying it can't be climbers cos it's under a problem, like we've never seen turds under problems/routes.

Anyway, the point is not about whether Lovejoy's responsible fire clean-up after is an issue (if a tree falls in a forest etc), or who had this particular fire at a venue 99.99% frequented by climbers only, the point is addressing possible irresponsible behaviour and looking after the joint.

[Bonjoy]

We're saying it can't be climbers cos it's under a problem, like we've never seen turds under problems/routes.

Anyway, the point is not about whether Lovejoy's responsible fire clean-up after is an issue (if a tree falls in a forest etc), or who had this particular fire at a venue 99.99% (99.99% of whom know better than lighting fires under classic problems at almost banned crags) frequented by climbers only, the point is addressing possible irresponsible behaviour and looking after the joint.

I doubt the special 00.01% of climbers who might theoretically do this would either read this or care what we said if they did. On the clear up, me and Shark may be passing tomorrow and he's already volunteered us to clean up. Though I'm guessing there's nothing to clear up by now. If there is any access mess to clear up it will fall on my plate as limestone access rep.

[dave]

I doubt the special 00.01% of climbers who might theoretically do this would either read this or care what we said if they did.

That's a risk I'm willing to take.

[SamT]

Is it not likely to be some local kids.  Don't need to be chavs and drink stella etc.  Just a couple of 12 year olds who've watched that bear grylls on't telly.

They might even have been allowed to camp the night there by their parents.  Its exactly the type of thing I'd have got up to as a 12 year old had I lived there, or been staying in a holiday let for a week and been lucky enough to be let off the leash to go for an explore/build dens etc.  The kids that live just over the other side of the leat on the approach to rubicon wall seem like adventurous scallywags, always playing in the garden building bridges etc.  You think they don't know about X.

[shark]

Stopped by this morning. Someone had already beat us to the clear up 

[dave]

Goes without saying I wasnt about to just leave it there.

[tomtom]

Maybe to ensure there is no damage to the crag in future, and that future fire users act responsibly we should construct a hearth and small chimney rising up above the height of the crag.

[cowboyhat]

If i was sixteen and lived there in the village, thats were I'd go to get stoned and fail to pull the only sixteen year old girl in the village.

[tomtom]