[shark]

Thought it would useful to start an equivalent of the Cheap shoes thread

[bigironhorse]

Think I noticed a few cheap offerings on the rock+run discount page the other day.

[Fultonius]

Not super cheap, but still discounted from rrp:

http://www.bananafingers.co.uk/edelrid-swift-89mm-ps-ds-ts-p-993.html

Just got one myself and it seems very nice so far. Pretty specialist, but quite handy for certain peeps.

[jwi]

Are there any UK-based internet retailers selling tag/zip lines? (I'm in the market for one and there is a 12% general discount in the UK ...sorry)

[slackline]

What about approaching some of these shops that do fantastic deals on shoes/ropes/bouldering pads/etc. to see if they're  interested in having a link to their offers on the left-hand side of the site?

[shark]

What about approaching some of these shops that do fantastic deals on shoes/ropes/bouldering pads/etc. to see if they're  interested in having a link to their offers on the left-hand side of the site?

You mean offering advertising for free? If I was a paying Sponsor I wouldn't be happy with that   

[slackline]

You mean offering advertising for free? If I was a paying Sponsor I wouldn't be happy with that   

I didn't say free.

The reason I suggested it is that these "Cheap [Shoes/Ropes/Bouldering Pads]" threads generate traffic to the retailers sites.  Under a commonly used model of advertising click-throughs from sites generate a small amount of revenue for the sites from which they originate from.  If some sites were getting a lot of click-throughs as a result of UKBs "Cheap [Shoes/Ropes/Bouldering Pads]" they might want to consider paying for advertising on the site to increase that further (if the click-throughs generate enough sales, not something UKB can now).

I guess some may already pay for banner adverts but I've no idea what banner adds are rotating on UKB at any given time since I block adverts across all sites.

[Paul B]

As I've said before group buys aren't uncommon on other forums. Would any Ukb advertisers be up for something similar?

Pads;
Ropes;
Etc.

[slackline]

Good idea, I'd be up for clubbing together to purchase ropes.


@Shark : The 'Cheap Shoes/Ropes/Bouldering Pads' threads already are, in essence, providing free advertising which is why I was suggesting monetising it.

[duncan]

Edelrid Python 80m for £70 from Rock and Run

[nai]

and a 70m Corbie for £85.

http://www.rockrun.com/rock-climbing/software/climbing-ropes/edelrid-corbie-8-6mm-x-70m

Considering buying one of these, could probably do with a new trad rope and as I climb trad so infrequently having the single rope option seems sensible for days/trips when you might want to do a bit of both.  Seems too good to be true at the price/discount though, wondering if they're crap, anyone used one? Do these multi-function ropes work well?

[shark]

Do these multi-function ropes work well?

I use the Revelation mainly for Sport and in broad terms it has been fine for Trad too though I suspect I'm not that discerning. Length is the key issue. It was OK when I had a shorter cut down Revelation but the one Im currently using is 80m so a bit of a pain for trad so got talked into shelling out for a pair of discounted but still not cheap 60m Sterling Duettos for trad which on first try out yesterday seemed very nice - but as I may have mentioned I'm not that discerning. Price and durability are my key criteria. That Corbie looks like a snap uppable bargain 

[nai]

A pair of ropes? Only used to need one and rely on your partner having one too. Is it bad form to only own one of a pair these days.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

[shark]

A pair of ropes? Only used to need one and rely on your partner having one too. Is it bad form to only own one of a pair these days.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

I was wistfully hoping to do trad with Tommy over the summer holidays but he has announced that he doesn't like climbing anymore especially trad. 

Anyone want to buy a single duetto?

[nai]

I was wistfully hoping to get a belay off Tommy over the summer holidays but he has announced that he doesn't like belaying anymore, especially trad. 

Is that more accurate  

Oh and cheers for the reply earlier, I have snapped one up.

[StillTryingForTheTop]

Bit of an off topic question, but

Assuming you are the sort of climber that generally downclimbs to the last bolt rather than taking a fall, do these skinny ropes still wear out super fast just from the weight of you sitting / lowering off?

or for a price like this are they a good option for a foreign holiday rope?

and a 70m Corbie for £85.

http://www.rockrun.com/rock-climbing/software/climbing-ropes/edelrid-corbie-8-6mm-x-70m

Considering buying one of these, could probably do with a new trad rope and as I climb trad so infrequently having the single rope option seems sensible for days/trips when you might want to do a bit of both.  Seems too good to be true at the price/discount though, wondering if they're crap, anyone used one? Do these multi-function ropes work well?

[duncan]

Assuming you are the sort of climber that generally downclimbs to the last bolt rather than taking a fall, do these skinny ropes still wear out super fast just from the weight of you sitting / lowering off?

and a 70m Corbie for £85.

http://www.rockrun.com/rock-climbing/software/climbing-ropes/edelrid-corbie-8-6mm-x-70m

Considering buying one of these, could probably do with a new trad rope and as I climb trad so infrequently having the single rope option seems sensible for days/trips when you might want to do a bit of both.  Seems too good to be true at the price/discount though, wondering if they're crap, anyone used one? Do these multi-function ropes work well?

Toby Archer reviewed the Corbie on the other channel and reported very fast wear: two core shots in two days of general trad. cragging with no falls. So probably not a good idea.

[StillTryingForTheTop]

Thanks,

Toby Archer reviewed the Corbie on the other channel and reported very fast wear: two core shots in two days of general trad. cragging with no falls. So probably not a good idea.

[danm]

The trouble with reviews where the person has simply used the rope is that there is no benchmark - all the evidence is anecdotal. If there is one thing I know about ropes, it's that their performance is incredibly sensitive to their initial handling and use. A really good rope can be trashed just like that in the wrong circumstances. A review is imho fairly pointless when it comes to ropes and wear.

All ropes use the same basic raw materials - either sourced from DuPont (usually US manufacturers) or PHP (Euros). There are a couple of methods of increasing a ropes wear resistance including using surface coatings or choosing a stiff, tightly woven sheath pattern. These can negatively affect the other properties of the rope, but in any case, the main factor when it comes to how much wear a rope can take is the amount of sheath material available.

How much sheath is there? First off, the stated diameter is not usually the actual diameter of the rope. God help me I've tried to get the standards changed to make this something meaningful, but as it is, consider it purely a marketing name for the rope. Instead, look at the rope density e.g. 57 g/m2. The higher this figure, the more total material in the rope. To give you an idea, the Corbie is 51 g/m2 and claims to be an 8.6mm. A Beal Joker comes in at 52g/m2 and is claimed as 9.1mm. See what I mean?

If you can find a sheath percentage, taken with the density you can calculate the amount of sheath material in the rope by sheath% x density. A few calculations for some different single ropes below:

Corbie 8.6: 29% x 51g/ms = 14.8g/m2
Joker 9.1: 35% x 52g/m2 = 18.2g/m2
Eternity 9.8: 38% x 64g/m2 = 24.3 g/m2
Booster 9.7: 41% x 63g/m2 = 25.8g/m2
Wallmaster 10.5: 47% x 71g/m2 = 33.4g/m2

The two most popular half ropes come in at:

Cobra 8.6: 38% x 48g/m2 = 18.2g/m2
Genesis 8.5: 45% x 45g/m2 = 20.2g/m2

So, all things being equal, take rope reviews with a  good pinch of salt and compare the amount of sheath material as a good guide to longevity. Bear in mind, more sheath = less core, the cost usually being higher impact forces. Personally I'd go for a low impact force rope for half ropes and accept the quicker wear as I want my gear to hold on trad. For sport I'm more bothered by wear and less bothered by forces.

[StillTryingForTheTop]

Thanks also

The trouble with reviews where the person has simply used the rope is that there is no benchmark - all the evidence is anecdotal. If there is one thing I know about ropes, it's that their performance is incredibly sensitive to their initial handling and use. A really good rope can be trashed just like that in the wrong circumstances. A review is imho fairly pointless when it comes to ropes and wear.

All ropes use the same basic raw materials - either sourced from DuPont (usually US manufacturers) or PHP (Euros). There are a couple of methods of increasing a ropes wear resistance including using surface coatings or choosing a stiff, tightly woven sheath pattern. These can negatively affect the other properties of the rope, but in any case, the main factor when it comes to how much wear a rope can take is the amount of sheath material available.

How much sheath is there? First off, the stated diameter is not usually the actual diameter of the rope. God help me I've tried to get the standards changed to make this something meaningful, but as it is, consider it purely a marketing name for the rope. Instead, look at the rope density e.g. 57 g/m2. The higher this figure, the more total material in the rope. To give you an idea, the Corbie is 51 g/m2 and claims to be an 8.6mm. A Beal Joker comes in at 52g/m2 and is claimed as 9.1mm. See what I mean?

If you can find a sheath percentage, taken with the density you can calculate the amount of sheath material in the rope by sheath% x density. A few calculations for some different single ropes below:

Corbie 8.6: 29% x 51g/ms = 14.8g/m2
Joker 9.1: 35% x 52g/m2 = 18.2g/m2
Eternity 9.8: 38% x 64g/m2 = 24.3 g/m2
Booster 9.7: 41% x 63g/m2 = 25.8g/m2
Wallmaster 10.5: 47% x 71g/m2 = 33.4g/m2

The two most popular half ropes come in at:

Cobra 8.6: 38% x 48g/m2 = 18.2g/m2
Genesis 8.5: 45% x 45g/m2 = 20.2g/m2

So, all things being equal, take rope reviews with a  good pinch of salt and compare the amount of sheath material as a good guide to longevity. Bear in mind, more sheath = less core, the cost usually being higher impact forces. Personally I'd go for a low impact force rope for half ropes and accept the quicker wear as I want my gear to hold on trad. For sport I'm more bothered by wear and less bothered by forces.

[duncan]

The trouble with reviews where the person has simply used the rope is that there is no benchmark - all the evidence is anecdotal. If there is one thing I know about ropes, it's that their performance is incredibly sensitive to their initial handling and use. A really good rope can be trashed just like that in the wrong circumstances. A review is imho fairly pointless when it comes to ropes and wear.

Reviews and other anecdotes are all we have to go on though. We have data on sheath weight which may be one factor in determining durability but nothing published on how fast ropes actually wear. Any thoughts on a standard abrasion resistance test?

[danm]

The trouble with reviews where the person has simply used the rope is that there is no benchmark - all the evidence is anecdotal. If there is one thing I know about ropes, it's that their performance is incredibly sensitive to their initial handling and use. A really good rope can be trashed just like that in the wrong circumstances. A review is imho fairly pointless when it comes to ropes and wear.

Reviews and other anecdotes are all we have to go on though. We have data on sheath weight which may be one factor in determining durability but nothing published on how fast ropes actually wear. Any thoughts on a standard abrasion resistance test?

Maybe the best way of thinking about this is to say that any rope has a theoretical durability, which can be estimated or inferred at, whether that's by looking at the specifications, or maybe by doing an abrasion test. A standardised abrasion test is in fact being looked at, using a modification of the jig used to test sheath slippage. Until that's available (which may be a long time, if ever!), calculating the amount of sheath material is still the best bet for determining the theoretical durability.

Your own experience, reviews and other peoples anecdotes are all data points in an experiment. Think of this as a really badly designed experiment for measuring theoretical durability. Many insignificant things can make a huge difference in the result. Twists in a rope that then gets loaded, sharp edges, a crystal nicking a strand, damp or humid conditions which softens the nylon even if dry-treated. Read reviews etc but remember it's basically one data point with huge error bars.

As an aside, if you remember our discussion about helmets a few months ago - amazingly, something may be happening there. I'll let you know if anything does.

[Bencil]

Anyone tried a Beal Karma 9.8? £75 for 70 m at go outdoors at the moment. To Compare to danm's stats it is 61 g/m 34% sheath/core = 20.7 g/m of sheath. Not the best but it is a cheap rope.

Doesn't look like it has dry treatment. Has anyone tried nikwax rope proof to reduce friction and wear? I'm guessing this is some kind of silicone. 

[duncan]

Any cheap 80m single ropes out there? (~9-9.5mm).

[nai]

http://www.rockrun.com/rock-climbing/software/climbing-ropes/beal-zenith-9-5mm-x-80m

There was an 80m rope on their flyer email for £79 but looks like they've gone.

There's also the Corbie for the same price but I'm guessing that doesn't interest you.

[weakdave]

Any decent 70M ropes about for around the £100 mark at the minute?