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All Day Performance Trad Shoes - Smearing & Cracks (Read 17244 times)

Fultonius

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Ok folks, my never ending quest for the holy grail of climbing shoes continues.

The Back Story

Scarpa works. It's like they have built their last around my foot. La Sportiva doesn't, although, full disclosure, I've never made it to the till with a pair, so maybe they work in the real world?

For years I've used Vapour Velcros for multi-pitch trad, then I discovered broken in Boostics - IMO unrivalled for comfort and edging performance. On the likes of the brandler hasse, ISO 2000, gogarth, cromlech etc. they are just ideal.

Last week however, I found some limitations - namely, smearing and pure crack work. I'm not light (76kg) and don't have small feet (43/43.5 scarpa) so I generally rely a bit on the shoes for support on edgy trad. Recently I've been thinking that maybe for indoors and bouldering I should embrace something softer to train my feet?

I did a few warm up routes in my baggy (44) vapour velcros that I bought for Yomesite a few years back and have sat in the cupboard since. They were very good in the cracks, but anything resembling an edge was quite worrisome, so on the harder routes I resorted to the boostics. Some routes were great (face climbs) others a bit challenging (smears & cracks). I would find it more insecure when just trying to chill out on bigger sloping footholds as I had to keep a lot of pressure to ensure grip. On similar holds with the big baggy shoes I could just stand there.

The Quest

I'm off to the U.S. in September, planning on 10+ pitch 5.11s and above. Therefore lots of granite cracks - the Boostics will not suffice, and I fear the vapours are just not right (too baggy, and yet still not that comfy). I also want them for when I know a route is more smeary than edgey in the UK.

I'm thinking snug but not small Katana Lace (if I can get it to fit), or similar Instinct Lace. I really don't get on with 5.10 shape, but could try something if recommended. I think people have previously mentioned anasazi verdes, what's the replacement now?


« Last Edit: June 08, 2016, 02:36:51 pm by Fultonius »

Duncan campbell

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Those flat-soled Scarpa shoes?? Pretty garish colours and called something a long the lines of techno x. could be the ticket?

I reckon the new 5.10 pinks are pretty good for what you describe though if they dont fit, maybe not. they are nowhere near as aggressive as whites and are therefore pretty comfortable in cracks but are technical enough to edge and smear.

ashtond6

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5.10 pinks for me - but like you say, its all about foot shape.

Fultonius

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Those flat-soled Scarpa shoes?? Pretty garish colours and called something a long the lines of techno x. could be the ticket?

I reckon the new 5.10 pinks are pretty good for what you describe though if they dont fit, maybe not. they are nowhere near as aggressive as whites and are therefore pretty comfortable in cracks but are technical enough to edge and smear.

Haven't tried on the pinks yet, so I could give them a bash.

I'm always a bit unsure of a fully flat shoe like the Techno, as they often seem to be stiffer/less precise to provide support. Anyone tried them?

I know the "crack masters" rave about 5.10 moccs, but I'm not so sure for multi-pitch granite. (I'm sure they're great for Indian Creek etc.)
« Last Edit: June 08, 2016, 03:53:57 pm by Fultonius »

tommytwotone

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I've done the hardest grade I've done across all disciplines (boulder, sport and trad) in a pair of 5:10 Velcros, including offwidthing.


Obviously heavily dependant on foot shape but my go-to-shoe whenever I need an all-rounder.

ghisino

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Moccs are great for cracks and smears but not very good and quite tiring on granite crystals and edges. Ok as a comfy allrounder on easy stuff

Pinks: yes they should work really well...

I'd also look at lasportiva: Tc pros, katana laces and otaki...

Fultonius

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Moccs are great for cracks and smears but not very good and quite tiring on granite crystals and edges. Ok as a comfy allrounder on easy stuff

Pinks: yes they should work really well...

I'd also look at lasportiva: Tc pros, katana laces and otaki...

I spent a while trying to see if a TC pro would fit in Snell...never felt right.  Just been in the shop and tried some pinks on in a 43, seems like a good, if slightly narrow, fit. I reckon they could be winners...  How much do they stretch?

jwi

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I used to wear 5.10 anasazi green for granite trad. Are they still around? I've used 5.10 verdon for multipitch limestone and since they have quite narrow toebox I wouldn't hesitate to bring the for multipitch granite.

fried

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Pinks go from stiff, to perfect to carpet slippers very quickly. I have a pair of size 8s for bouldering and a pair of 8.5 that have been resoled for bimbling about in, I take a size 10 street size, when nicely broken in the are perfect for smearing and pretty decent on small edges. I bought a pair of vapours as I wanted something a bit more aggresive on small holds, despite the evidence that they stay on fine, my mind doesn't like the feel of them and I end up back in my pinks.

I can comfortably keep my small pinks on for a couple of hours before the pain becomes unbearable, although I have very narrow feet.

Apparently Vieux campeur is not going to stock the Verdons due to their ridiculously high price, I'd still like a go on them though.


Fultonius

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Pinks go from stiff, to perfect to carpet slippers very quickly.

Hmm.  :-\ This is why I binned 5.10 in the first place - blancos only lasting a month before they were useless. I do want them for crack and smear though, not edging.

I felt like the new Vapour Velcros were slightly more down-turned and aggressive than the original, but it's hard to tell.

AndyR

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Just been through the same process - ended up with a pair of the Vapour lace-ups - took them out for a day on Sunday and they handled thin granite edging and finger/thin hands with ease - outrageously comfy too compared to my previous whites/Anasazi velcros. Recommended.

Fultonius

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Andy - were those V2s or V1?

V2:



I'm continually impressed with how well Scarpa hold their shape and stiffness with age, in fact, breaking them in can be tedious!

ashtond6

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Pinks go from stiff, to perfect to carpet slippers very quickly.

Hmm.  :-\ This is why I binned 5.10 in the first place - blancos only lasting a month before they were useless. I do want them for crack and smear though, not edging.

I felt like the new Vapour Velcros were slightly more down-turned and aggressive than the original, but it's hard to tell.

But the carpet slippers time is great for cracks. Stiffer than moccs but still great to twist in, but still ok ish on edging.

I totally agree with fried though, for edging pinks have an extremely short life span

Don't touch moccs for multipitch, agony after a while

ashtond6

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Also, I don't understand the point in anyone recommending an edging shoe for cracks. Unless you are rich

The cracks will destroy the edge pretty quickly

TheTwig

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Love my 5.10 velcros for all things trad. Some people seem to think the metal buckle holding the velcro digs into your foot when jamming your foot in but I honestly have never ever had that problem  :shrug:

AndyR

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Andy - were those V2s or V1?

V2:


V2 - the most recent version.

mikester

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Andy - were those V2s or V1?

V2:


V2 - the most recent version.
Sound good. How are you sizing them?

AndyR

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Andy - were those V2s or V1?

V2:


V2 - the most recent version.
Sound good. How are you sizing them?

For ref: I'm a 42/43 street shoe. Tend to run either 41.5 or 42 in blanco or anasazi velcro; I ended up getting 41.5 in the vapour lace and that felt comfortable, whereas same size in blanco has me wincing.

ghisino

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Also, I don't understand the point in anyone recommending an edging shoe for cracks.

i understood the point perfectly while climbing the enduro corner on astroman in moccs...
many reasonable stemming stances turned into painful and shaky experiences because the shoes were too sloppy to push comfortably on small edges and crystals.

in my limited experience,sloppy shoes and especially moccs are killers when the crack is the main feature and/or everything else is rounded, big or very smeary...sadly it isn't the case for most granite!

Fultonius

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Also, I don't understand the point in anyone recommending an edging shoe for cracks.

i understood the point perfectly while climbing the enduro corner on astroman in moccs...
many reasonable stemming stances turned into painful and shaky experiences because the shoes were too sloppy to push comfortably on small edges and crystals.

in my limited experience,sloppy shoes and especially moccs are killers when the crack is the main feature and/or everything else is rounded, big or very smeary...sadly it isn't the case for most granite!

This ^^  has been an issue for me in the past. I have weak feet, so often get mega pumped calves and have to hold on much harder because my feet are slopping/rolling around.

Total dilemma!  Might buy some pinks and see how it goes, but take my broken in, resoled boostics as a backup.

tomtom

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TobyD

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I've done the hardest grade I've done across all disciplines (boulder, sport and trad) in a pair of 5:10 Velcros, including offwidthing.
Obviously heavily dependant on foot shape but my go-to-shoe whenever I need an all-rounder.

I'd agree: you can climb anything in velcros, the only thing they don't do well is small pockets. I also used to love the 5.10 Galileos, but in 5.10s infinite wisdom utter stupidity they stopped making them. Comfy - fit velcros are almost as good.

rosmat

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IMO - and I live in Yosemite - nothing comes even close to TC Pros for granite cracks and faces.

I have narrow feet and once broken in the fit is great. They feel a little weird until broken in.

For reference fit wise, my other shoes I wear regularly are:
1.) Vapor Velcro (too aggressive for cracks to be comfy)
2.) 5.10 Moccasyms (good for thin cracks, too soft for hand / fist cracks, shit for edging).
3.) 5.10 Anasazi Velcro (pretty good but too soft to be comfy on long multi pitch cracks).

I would definitely go with TC Pros if you can. It took me while to get used to them, but now I love them and wouldn't choose anything else for the granite.

Fultonius

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IMO - and I live in Yosemite - nothing comes even close to TC Pros for granite cracks and faces.

I have narrow feet and once broken in the fit is great. They feel a little weird until broken in.

For reference fit wise, my other shoes I wear regularly are:
1.) Vapor Velcro (too aggressive for cracks to be comfy)
2.) 5.10 Moccasyms (good for thin cracks, too soft for hand / fist cracks, shit for edging).
3.) 5.10 Anasazi Velcro (pretty good but too soft to be comfy on long multi pitch cracks).

I would definitely go with TC Pros if you can. It took me while to get used to them, but now I love them and wouldn't choose anything else for the granite.

I would consider it, but I think they might just be too specialist - I also want this shoe purchase to suit me for general UK trad duties when I want something less edgey and more smeary than boostics/vapour velcros - that's why Anasazi Pinks sound reasonable. As far as I've read the TC pros are pretty poor for smears? I read a few reviews saying the pinks were pretty nice for cracks.

shark

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Quote
In particular I became obsessed with finding the correct shoes for Freeway (and sent stern emails to Simon suggesting he think likewise). Whilst I hate painful feet from over-tight shoes worn on long routes, the “calf-burning stems on micro features” seemed to require a precision shoe. My usual shoe choice for easier long routes is a baggy pair of old-school La Sportiva Mythos, and for harder single-pitch trad the same firm’s Miuras, sized as tight as I can bear. Neither seemed right for Freeway.

My first experiment was to buy some Miuras one half-size larger than usual. They were - initially - disappointing. I did a lap up Grand Wall in them, with Eric Hildrew, another Brit visitor, in town a few weeks before Simon and his family. The Miuras hurt, yet didn’t feel very precise. In a panic, I made a very left-field choice: a pair of Mythos, sized tighter than usual, and, for extra impact, in the women’s style which is significantly narrower. For a while I managed to delude myself that these were good shoes, and even took them for (another) lap up Grand Wall, with Simon and his son Tom. But a couple of obvious negatives were hard to ignore: one, that they were scarcely less sloppy than my normal Mythos, and, worse, two, that my feet were tending to pop out of the shoes’ shallow heel cups.

Eventually, in search of objectivity, I carried a bouldering pad and my entire shoe collection to a slab near my home, notable for some thin problems. In particular there is a sandbag V2 which starts with two consecutive rock-ups on small crystals, on which I often fail. The only reliable shoe I own for moves like that is the Five Ten Anasazi White, a stiff “plank” too foot-crushing to wear for any significant time. Predictably the problem wouldn’t go in Mythos of any flavour, nor in any of the other oddities I have accumulated down the years (Five Ten 5X’s, Red Chilli Spirits … czech carpet slippers … etc). However the aha! moment came when I did manage the two crystal moves in the new upsized Miura's, even though they felt awkward and clunky. I decided to stop fussing and just concentrate on getting those shoes thoroughly broken-in.


 

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