[Fultonius]

Thanks shark. That's funny, as Freeway was the end of the affair when it came to Anasazi whites. On the fourth pitch, when you have thin tips laybacking and smeary feet, I had to reverse all the way to the belay, remove my shoes, chalk up my sweaty feet, crank them as hard as I could then go back up.

My feet were just slopping and rolling inside the shoe and I was convinced I was going to blow it. In hindsight, I probably wore whites half a size too big, but could never get into the smaller size.

[lagerstarfish]

I used my comfy fit (half size below street, I think? almost straight big toe) lace up Miuras in Font at Easter and was pleasantly surprized by how good they were on smears - obviously they are great on edges. I had some surprizing support from them using smear/edge/paste type placements on blank looking walls - they found little variations in the texture

I've climbed cracks in them, but not leading (staying still for long periods of time). Seem OK, the pointy toe is good on peg scars both front on and sideways (recent top rope of peg scarred cracks)

there is a reasonable amount of adjustment using the laces which makes a difference to how bendy the shoe feels

[Johnny Brown]

In my experience there is no such thing as an all-day performance shoe. The more of one you go for, the less you get of the other. Worth noting foot pain on long routes is not just from boot tightness (which also gives support) but from the strain standing on your toes (which develops quicker in boots with less support.

So for Uk style 2-3 pitch, 2-3 routes a day, the best compromise I've found is to use my most broken-in pair of tight performance shoes - Anasazi velcros that have already done a bouldering season generally, but on slate I had a very good day in a pair of 5.10 Arrowheads which are the softest, tightest shoes I've ever had. Obviously you take them off immediately between pitches. All the times I've onsighted E6 and above have involved this approach. I find I climb better and quicker in really good shoes, which helps overall on long routes.. up to a point.

For really long routes I think you need something a) stiff and b) lace-up. Ideally well broken in, hopefully taking the edges off and giving a bit more sensitivity whilst retaining the stiffness. Lace-up so you have good control over tightness, and can tighten for hard pitches and loosen for easier (but still get support from the stiffness). Some pain is inevitable after 20+ pitches.

E.g. Bransby did Freerider in a day in well-worn 5.10 Newtons, which were marketed as a punter boot, whereas Lynn Hill did the Nose in a day in tight Boreal bambas, one of the softest shoes ever marketed. No doubt they were pretty tight. An alternative is to climb any easier ground in your best approach shoes and go for the soft shoes for the hard pitches, this works better on some routes/ rock than others.

Generally I annoy myself by not adopting the second approach and end up in a hybrid too big-too soft boot (mainly due to the time taken to break stiff shoes). In Canada I had a pair of greens half a size bigger than tight which were quite good (good enough for Freeway, Power of Lard, Fingerberry jam etc, but agony by the end of Seventh Rifle - too tight, too soft), have just bought a pair of pinks the same size which are rubbish - too soft out of the box and too narrow for me - crap on small holds and very painful across the wide part of the foot. Maybe I should probably buy second hand stiff boots off ebay punters.

[Fultonius]

#minefield

Fuck it, I might just go in my resoled boostics. I've done plenty 400m+ routes in them, plenty of support, good on edges, dishes etc., a bit "awkward" in cracks, but manageable. I didn't even have sore feet after doing Don Quixote on the Marmoloda, which has a lot of slabbier sections.

Putting me off the pinks...

[duncan]

JB has said most of this as I was writing but here it is anyway.

I don't think there is one shoe that does everything you want, with the caveat that I've not climbed much in TC Pros.

The executive summary is the best compromise is a 1990s performance shoe that fits your foot - medium-stiff, with little or no down-turn - sized 1/2 up from tight so that your toes lie flat. Their biggest weakness will be in pure thin cracks which need soft shoes with low profile toes (Moccs or comfortably fitting Mythos). These are rubbish on edges of course. In anything other than desert sandstone it's worth sacrificing ability to squeeze into thin cracks for a little more edging in my view. Anything moderately stiff works in pure hand or fist cracks, even approach shoes are pretty good.

All-round shoes that have worked well for me include old-style Pinks, Velcros, Galileos, or softened Blancos, all sized 1/2 up from tight. Miuras are good but not my foot shape. This has put me off trying TC Pros which I believe are based on the Miura last; I tried a pair briefly and they felt almost as stiff as Blancos but even less sensitive. I could imagine they could be good for micro-edges and handcracks but not so good for smearing or thin cracks. I didn't get on with Mythos' for anything other than cracks.

[Johnny Brown]

I have wide feet and always avoided the old pinks on this basis. However I was sold the new ones on the basis that they were basically a replacement for the greens. They are very soft so need to be tight to work.

I wouldn't be too put off by a lack of sensitivity in stiff shoes. It's inevitable. What they do need is breaking in well, so not best bought specifically for a trip. Breaking partly involves the shoe deforming to your foot, and partly you learning to use them - with stiff boots the latter is crucial.

[Tommy]

Me and Pete climbed the El Cap routes in a mixture of Anasazi Velcro and Blancos.

Velcro 1 = soft and very old. 5.8-5.11
Velcro 2 = a month old. 5.12/13 cracks
Blanco = 3-6 months old. 5.12/13 face pitches.

I've found the pain in the arse of switching shoes and carrying extra ones well worth it and also good if you have horrible sweaty feet! :-). Also I use the Stealth rubber paint on the toes for the hard crack pitches. It's really good once you learn how to do the paint job well. I did a few duff jobs to start though!!

[Johnny Brown]

How many pitches were you doing in a day Tom? Assuming you were hauling/ camping too?

[Fultonius]

We'lll not be taking spare shoes, or doing 5.12+  haha! 

My biggest concern is thin crack/corner work - if there are edges I'd be fine in boostics, but it it's friction stemming they'd be too stiff and downturned, and also usless for when you just smear/paste your foot into the crack/corner.

in all honesty I'll be fine on the routes we're planning, as they are not likely to be right at my limit for a couple of reasons, but I just want to enjoy it as much as I can.

[Tommy]

How many pitches were you doing in a day Tom? Assuming you were hauling/ camping too?

5-15 at a guess? 15 on easy stuff, 5 if it was middle of wall and trying the 13s. We generally hauled in trainers.

[Johnny Brown]

Ok, so I forget which routes you did but assume then you'd be wearing the soft old velcros for something like the freeblast?

[Tommy]

Yeah it was something like the below on Freerider:

Softies for Freeblast (but new Velcro for sandbag 6b+ pitch)
Softies all the way to Monster
Whites for Monster (better heel-toe stiffness)
Softies to boulder prob pitch
Whites
New velcro next 4-5 pitches? Mostly 5.12 ish
Softies to top. (actually might have been new Velcro on Scotty Burke pitch)

[ashtond6]

Also, I don't understand the point in anyone recommending an edging shoe for cracks.

i understood the point perfectly while climbing the enduro corner on astroman in moccs...
many reasonable stemming stances turned into painful and shaky experiences because the shoes were too sloppy to push comfortably on small edges and crystals.

in my limited experience,sloppy shoes and especially moccs are killers when the crack is the main feature and/or everything else is rounded, big or very smeary...sadly it isn't the case for most granite!

Did you read my entire post?
The bit where I said 'don't use moccs!'
 

[Muenchener]

For some reason even well-broken-in and half-size-bigger-than-tight Miura's no longer work for me

Been there, done that. Great performance but lacking on the comfy.

Am currently on Vapor Laces half a size down from street shoe size. Pretty good, would buy again, might go a full size down next time.

[Paul B]

I've just done some zooming on my holiday pics (which has made me question my current employed status) and it seems like the shoe of choice for my USA tour (which was a mix of sandstone and granite) was the green Anasazi. Nat seems to have worn a combination of Whites and Vapour V (women's).

I can remember these (the greens) dying just before I arrived in Squamish and I broke out some Whites I hadn't yet used. After a couple of routes (easy ones at that) I decided that either I'd sized them completely wrong for what I was doing (possible, as they'd be a pair sized for UK lime) or that I just didn't like them on granite (perhaps JB's point about breaking them in beforehand is valid here!). I ended up buying a pair of the purple Anasazi velcros (i.e. the ones with C4) which I wore from then on but as stated I did find the bottom buckle to press into my foot at times.

I can also remember taking a new pair of Velcros to the Verdon and seriously regretting it. I prefer a V2 White that's broken-in as I spend ages pontificating my next move and don't want to be rushed into committing by aching feet.

[sidewinder]

Anyone tried the new Maestro https://www.scarpa.co.uk/climb/maestro/ look like they could be a good compromise shoe (or are trying to be).
Generally wear anasazi velcros (a bit soft for all day) and used to really like the, now discontinued and imo underappreciated Evolv Bandit velcros, which I thought were a bit stiffer, pointier toe for edges and with a slightly less agressive heel. Unfortunately my last pair are about to die.